"Warstard" arguments?

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-06-29 08:58am

Everyone here more than likely knows what a Trektard is. My question is, are there any "Warstards", as in dishonest wankers who vastly overstate SW's capabilities in vs arguments, typically relying on very dubious evidence (say, equivalents of the "No Lasers!" fallacy or Genesis Torpedo spamming) out there? If so, what are their arguments (excluding the TEH UBERDUPER TRHEE MILLI0N CLOWNES!!!111 fallacy, which everyone should already be more than familiar enough with)?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-06-29 10:25am

SW wankers are the opposite of ST wankers: they're EU fans who tend to reduce the numbers and power of the equipment so they can wank the characters, like the Mandalorians or Karen Traviss' horrible wanking over super-duper-elite clonetrooper commando units.

Venator · Post by **Venator** » 2008-06-29 12:57pm

People who don't facepalm when confronted with the idea of the Sun Crusher?

I've also heard of people claiming that Stormtroopers are equivalent to Warhammer 40k Space Marines, but I've never seen it posted personally.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2008-06-29 01:09pm

Venator wrote:People who don't facepalm when confronted with the idea of the Sun Crusher?

I've also heard of people claiming that Stormtroopers are equivalent to Warhammer 40k Space Marines, but I've never seen it posted personally.

I'm pretty sure it was on RSA or Captain Newlands old boards, I know I believed it before I looked deeper into the universe.

Coiler · Post by **Coiler** » 2008-06-29 02:03pm

There was a guy on Spacebattles way back named "Emperor Joe" who claimed that Stormtroopers could beat Space Marines with vibroknives.

Venator · Post by **Venator** » 2008-06-29 05:45pm

Coiler wrote:There was a guy on Spacebattles way back named "Emperor Joe" who claimed that Stormtroopers could beat Space Marines with vibroknives.

There's also people on SB who claim that Worf could do it with a broken beer bottle, so - unfortunately - I'm not all that suprised

.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2008-06-29 06:29pm

Argh... wasn't there that fellow who had the unfortunate run-in with a Trash Can at a burger king where he couldn't figure out how to use it properly? I was just thinking about him the other day...

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2008-06-29 07:54pm

Venator wrote:There's also people on SB who claim that Worf could do it with a broken beer bottle, so - unfortunately - I'm not all that suprised

Wasn't that on SFJ or one of those little Trekkie-wanker boards?

Venator · Post by **Venator** » 2008-06-29 08:45pm

Junghalli wrote:
Venator wrote:There's also people on SB who claim that Worf could do it with a broken beer bottle, so - unfortunately - I'm not all that suprised
Wasn't that on SFJ or one of those little Trekkie-wanker boards?

I'm not sure; I'm pretty sure it was an SFJtard who posted it, but I believe the forum was Spacebattles. Could be wrong, though.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2008-06-29 10:20pm

Pretty sure that was RSA/Newland again, it's been discussed on SFJ as well though.

Big Hairy Mountain Man is the proud owner of that argument.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-06-30 12:31am

To those who've heard of the "Worf can use a broken bottle to kill a WH40K Space Marine!" and "SW Stormtroopers can use vibroknives to kill a WH40K Space Marine!" arguments: do you have links to sites where those claims were actually made?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2008-06-30 01:02am

Sidewinder wrote:To those who've heard of the "Worf can use a broken bottle to kill a WH40K Space Marine!" and "SW Stormtroopers can use vibroknives to kill a WH40K Space Marine!" arguments: do you have links to sites where those claims were actually made?

The Space MArine vs Worf thing was on I think Darkstar's old defunct site, though its hinted at at SFJ (along with other random idiocy conceringing 40K - they tend to view it as being "overrinflated" by the vast majority of 40Kers.. plasma reacotrs are obviously fusion, etc.)

The ST vs Space Marine I vaguely recall on SB, but don't take that very seriously. I've seen most "SW vs 40K" threads on SB and they tend to be idiotic in the extreme - a great many of the warsies there have little to no clue about 40K and just attack it, and a fair numbe rof the 40Kers are equally ignorant of SW.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2008-06-30 06:38am

Sidewinder wrote:To those who've heard of the "Worf can use a broken bottle to kill a WH40K Space Marine!" and "SW Stormtroopers can use vibroknives to kill a WH40K Space Marine!" arguments: do you have links to sites where those claims were actually made?

Someone has them saved and produced it the last time we had this discussion, can't remember who though.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-06-30 10:15am

Darth Wong wrote:SW wankers are the opposite of ST wankers: they're EU fans who tend to reduce the numbers and power of the equipment so they can wank the characters, like the Mandalorians or Karen Traviss' horrible wanking over super-duper-elite clonetrooper commando units.

Yes, I too am familiar with minimalists, both the old variants and the Fandalorian fanwhores. The insanity of the latter in particular is easily on par with that of all but the most rabid Trektards.

However, what I really meant to ask was, are there any Trekkie-style "Warstards" out there that do inflate the numbers and power of SW out of all proportion? Say, wanktards who argue that "The Empire can beat the Culture because they have [technobabble] [technobabble]!"?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-06-30 04:13pm

I can't really think of any Warstards who represent even a noticable minority: the true scale and expanse of the STAR WARS civilization is implied and required subtlely in the films (except for the Death Star). It takes someone the ability to do basic math and with some knowledge of modern institutions to scale accordingly and think and realize the true size of a galaxy. Therefore this basically rules out the groups who usually qualify to become -tards because they're all characterized by poor education and ignorance of science, math, and real life. As Mike points out, these Warstards accordingly go by the most superficial, lazy wankery views of the EU they can find and that leads them to be obscenely minimalistic.

Themightytom · Post by **Themightytom** » 2008-06-30 05:40pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I can't really think of any Warstards who represent even a noticable minority: the true scale and expanse of the STAR WARS civilization is implied and required subtlely in the films (except for the Death Star). It takes someone the ability to do basic math and with some knowledge of modern institutions to scale accordingly and think and realize the true size of a galaxy. Therefore this basically rules out the groups who usually qualify to become -tards because they're all characterized by poor education and ignorance of science, math, and real life. As Mike points out, these Warstards accordingly go by the most superficial, lazy wankery views of the EU they can find and that leads them to be obscenely minimalistic.

More education does NOT make someone less likely to propose and support a dumb argument.

Go ahead prove me wrong.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-06-30 07:02pm

Themightytom wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:I can't really think of any Warstards who represent even a noticable minority: the true scale and expanse of the STAR WARS civilization is implied and required subtlely in the films (except for the Death Star). It takes someone the ability to do basic math and with some knowledge of modern institutions to scale accordingly and think and realize the true size of a galaxy. Therefore this basically rules out the groups who usually qualify to become -tards because they're all characterized by poor education and ignorance of science, math, and real life. As Mike points out, these Warstards accordingly go by the most superficial, lazy wankery views of the EU they can find and that leads them to be obscenely minimalistic.
More education does NOT make someone less likely to propose and support a dumb argument.

Yes it does. It doesn't GUARANTEE that you won't do it, but it does make it less LIKELY.

Go ahead prove me wrong.

There is an inverse correlation between education and religious belief, particularly the crazy-ass fundamentalist type of religious belief. That's a good example right there.

Coiler · Post by **Coiler** » 2008-06-30 07:13pm

Sidewinder wrote:To those who've heard of the "Worf can use a broken bottle to kill a WH40K Space Marine!" and "SW Stormtroopers can use vibroknives to kill a WH40K Space Marine!" arguments: do you have links to sites where those claims were actually made?

The Space Marine falling to a vibroknife is here.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-06-30 09:05pm

Coiler wrote:The Space Marine falling to a vibroknife is here.

The pro-Galactic Empire guys were so Darkstar-like in their arguments, I gave up on reading the thread after one of them challenged the statement on a Space Marine's superhuman strength with "Then why is it called the Imperium of Man?"

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2008-07-01 12:22am

Sidewinder wrote:
Coiler wrote:The Space Marine falling to a vibroknife is here.
The pro-Galactic Empire guys were so Darkstar-like in their arguments, I gave up on reading the thread after one of them challenged the statement on a Space Marine's superhuman strength with "Then why is it called the Imperium of Man?"

......

I, quite literally, facepalmed.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2008-07-01 12:40am

I told you, it was probably SB and thus there were probably some morons there. Alot of people like that wouldn't last long over here if they tried that BS (mainly because there are others here that would put a stop to it, or crush the idiot mercilessly.)

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2008-07-01 12:43am

Straha wrote:Argh... wasn't there that fellow who had the unfortunate run-in with a Trash Can at a burger king where he couldn't figure out how to use it properly? I was just thinking about him the other day...

For a moment I thought you were talking about Transcend. Wait wasn't he the one that lost a fight against a trash can?

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2008-07-01 01:41am

Connor MacLeod wrote: a great many of the warsies there have little to no clue about 40K and just attack it, and a fair numbe rof the 40Kers are equally ignorant of SW.

I know this has been covered over and over here also, but are you aware if there has ever been a definitive answer given to a question as basic as an Imperial Blaster vs Marine Armour? I read many of the discussions but not seen an answer.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2008-07-01 02:25am

PayBack wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote: a great many of the warsies there have little to no clue about 40K and just attack it, and a fair numbe rof the 40Kers are equally ignorant of SW.
I know this has been covered over and over here also, but are you aware if there has ever been a definitive answer given to a question as basic as an Imperial Blaster vs Marine Armour? I read many of the discussions but not seen an answer.

The problem with it, is that one can say at best is there are some blasters that can penetrate Marine Armor, but it depends on said blaster.

The problem is that with all analysis is that there is a vague level of what is low end on blasters given that examples in canon have some variables and there's also conflicting answers to marine armor durablity low end as well.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-07-01 05:18am

The debate on that side was kindergarten-level. I read six pages, and nobody even tried to quantify anything, it was just a bunch of "Well, they will have to survive nova cannons and lance batteries and then there's the really powerful stuff!!!"

Imagine for a moment a NATO analyst during the Cold War who is asked a question: "How does a NATO infantry division compare to a Warsaw Pact division, when it comes to combat power?" and then anwers it with "Well, we've got M16s and Javelins and then the real heavy stuff: the Bradleys and Apache helicopters! This is awesome stuff and the stupid Russians don't have it!", and you get the typical poster in that atrocious thread.