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Vympel wrote:- Its time for a Lambda class shuttle. The Sentinel class which we saw for two seconds in ANH is getting a bit overused. Its too large for what they're using it for most of the time

I'm getting the feeling that Filoni is of the impression that the Sentinel-class was a precursor to the Lambda-class. That's why we keep seeing it along with ISD-1s and McQuarrie-style AT-ATs and A-wings.

It was my understanding that the Sentinel-class shuttle was used for larger groups of stormtroopers and served alongside the Lambda-class, but maybe they decided otherwise.

Galvatron wrote: I'm getting the feeling that Filoni is of the impression that the Sentinel-class was a precursor to the Lambda-class. That's why we keep seeing it along with ISD-1s and McQuarrie-style AT-ATs and A-wings.

It was my understanding that the Sentinel-class shuttle was used for larger groups of stormtroopers and served alongside the Lambda-class, but maybe they decided otherwise.

Yeah, exactly, he's wrong. The Sentinel is an entirely different weight class.

This probably why we can't see TIE interceptors or Executors either. If they were off-screen during ANH, that means they didn't exist during that time.

Galvatron wrote:This probably why we can't see TIE interceptors or Executors either. If they were off-screen during ANH, that means they didn't exist during that time.

What about the A-Wings then...?

The ones in Rebels are slightly different models than the ones in ROTJ. The most notable difference is the vane running down the center of each thruster, which matches that of the Ralph McQuarrie concept art.

And the TIE bombers from the season 2.5 trailer?

needs of the story I assume.

RogueIce wrote:And the TIE bombers from the season 2.5 trailer?

The exception that proves the rule.

Lord Revan wrote:needs of the story I assume.

Personally I'm chalking it up to budget. When they first started using it, it was in a context that made sense for them. At this point they're just using it as a regular shuttle because I'm guessing it's not worth the expense to make a new but similar Lambda shuttle model when the Sentinel is already available.

I actually kinda wish they'd used Sentinels in TFA to shuttle the stormtroopers to Jakku. The ones they did use looked so generic and boxy.

But as I've said before, I personally LIKE seeing the same ships being used for ages versus the rapid development of newer, fancier models all the time.

RogueIce wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:needs of the story I assume.

Personally I'm chalking it up to budget. When they first started using it, it was in a context that made sense for them. At this point they're just using it as a regular shuttle because I'm guessing it's not worth the expense to make a new but similar Lambda shuttle model when the Sentinel is already available.

tbh it's not impossible that was reason in universe as well (at least for imperial military) with the Sentinel developed as a replacement for the LAAT/i gunship when a heavily armed shuttle wasn't needed for the missions the imperials ran most of the time with the TIE shuttle (a variant of the TIE bomber) serving as the VIP transport for military personal and only when the rebellion became widespread enough the Empire thought they'd need a more sturdy shuttle for VIPs thus the Lambda shuttle.

The rebels ostensibly used a Lambda to ferry "parts and technical crew" to Endor. If they were primarily VIP shuttles, that would be like using a limousine to carry construction workers and their tools to a work site.

Galvatron wrote:The rebels ostensibly used a Lambda to ferry "parts and technical crew" to Endor. If they were primarily VIP shuttles, that would be like using a limousine to carry construction workers and their tools to a work site.

Well, just because something is a military transport does not mean the interior must be the same. Some military transports are used to transport troops without much comfort, but that doesn't mean some couldn't be turned into something really comfortable.

Take Marine One for example. It is most certainly more comfortable ride than the standard Nighthawk helicopter used to transport SEAL teams.

I don't disagree with that. What I disagree with is the notion that the Lambda was conceived of and used mainly as a VIP shuttle. If anything, the Lambda shuttles that Vader and Palpatine used were more akin to, as you said, Marine One (IMO).

I'm with Galvatron. The VIP Lamdas are to Lambdas what Marine One is to the common H-60. They're a VIP version of what is a generic duty shuttle. Hence nobody batting an eye when Han and Co pretended to use one for an ordinary supply run.

Galvatron wrote:The ones in Rebels are slightly different models than the ones in ROTJ. The most notable difference is the vane running down the center of each thruster, which matches that of the Ralph McQuarrie concept art.

That's par for the course in Rebels. The A-Wings in Rebels are the A-Wings in RotJ, it'd be like saying the long-neck ISDs of Rebels are a different model from that which we see in the films, its just a stylistic thing.

Vympel wrote:

Galvatron wrote:The ones in Rebels are slightly different models than the ones in ROTJ. The most notable difference is the vane running down the center of each thruster, which matches that of the Ralph McQuarrie concept art.

That's par for the course in Rebels. The A-Wings in Rebels are the A-Wings in RotJ, it'd be like saying the long-neck ISDs of Rebels are a different model from that which we see in the films, its just a stylistic thing.

Does that go for the McQuarrie-style AT-STs and AT-ATs too?

I mean, at what point do we draw the line between "yeah, those masks and those proportions are definitely stylized" and "that cannon there or that wing there indicates that it's a different/variant model of ship/walker?"

Galvatron wrote: Does that go for the McQuarrie-style AT-STs and AT-ATs too?

I mean, at what point do we draw the line between "yeah, those masks and those proportions are definitely stylized" and "that cannon there or that wing there indicates that it's a different/variant model of ship/walker?"

Those AT-ATs are different in so many respects they're clearly an early model. Its not just a matter of proportions and marks, its an entirely different design and with additional weapons. Heck, it does stuff that would be physically impossible for an OT-type AT-AT to do (the guns are mounted on ball turrets and have a much wider field of view) in the episode - that's also a clear marker.

There's no AT-STs in Rebels as far as I know. Only AT-DPs.

EDIT: also, in Rebels we actually see the schematics of a proper, OT-type AT-AT. So yeah, clearly different models.

Whatever they call it now, the AT-DP is basically recycled from Joe Johnston's concept art for the scout walker in TESB. Additionally, it looks like the AT-ATs in Rebels (also based on TESB concept art) are still called AT-ATs whether they're of a distinctly different model or not. So why can't the same be said about the Rebels version of the A-wing?

Galvatron wrote:This probably why we can't see TIE interceptors or Executors either. If they were off-screen during ANH, that means they didn't exist during that time.

I've only recently caught up on the entire series, well 1.5 seasons. I'm taking it that it's roughly 15 years post ROTS, it's just possible that SSD's were just coming on line then, since we're talking only 5 years prior to Yavin IV and the Deathstar.

Zixinus wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:Well, we're left to wonder what the hell happened to the rest of Leia's crew. Also those walkers are surprisingly tough, to take multiple torpedo hits and keep going.

It would be silly to make something that big and not be able to take a good deal of punishment, especially something like fighter-launched missiles. Even in the games they are rather difficult to take down. In fact it's a bit weird how easily Kanan cut trough the legs but not worth cringing about.

I'm just saying, they've come a long way since Isard's Revenge when Wes Janson noted that they could have dealt with some of them much more easily by depositing a torpedo each and being done with it.

Vympel wrote:That's par for the course in Rebels. The A-Wings in Rebels are the A-Wings in RotJ, it'd be like saying the long-neck ISDs of Rebels are a different model from that which we see in the films, its just a stylistic thing.

Galvatron wrote:Whatever they call it now, the AT-DP is basically recycled from Joe Johnston's concept art for the scout walker in TESB. Additionally, it looks like the AT-ATs in Rebels (also based on TESB concept art) are still called AT-ATs whether they're of a distinctly different model or not. So why can't the same be said about the Rebels version of the A-wing?

I think one can make the case on the A-wing, TBH. I wouldn't go so far as that stupid R-22 retcon from Legends, but being a slightly different type than what we saw in RotJ? Possible.


For comparison.

I mainly say that from the engines (they lack the extra ring of the RotJ ones) and they also don't have that 'split' in the nose. Small differences, but slightly more than I'd tend to chalk up to stylization. I would ignore that the Rebels A-wings look a bit "fatter" perhaps than RotJ, but that may be a trick of the perspective in the image I'm using. That said, to put it in USAF terms, Rebels is showing us the RZ-1A while at Endor they had the RZ-1B or something like that. So not a prototype or a "not!A-wing" but a different model, perhaps.

EDIT: So just to be clear, while I might acknowledge the A-wings are slightly different models, that doesn't mean I'm really agreeing with Galvatron's "If they were off-screen during ANH, that means they didn't exist during that time" premise at all. I doubt that's the mindset of the show runners. If it was, Lando would not have shown up.

In USAF terms RZ would indicate a recon lighter-than-air vehicle, not a fighter.

Not only is the Rebels A-Wing noticeably bulkier (or at least wider compared to its length) than the RotJ one, but the (presumably guns) cylindrical thingies on the wintips are a lot more massive.

I'm with RI-this is simply a different model A-Wing.

Batman wrote:In USAF terms RZ would indicate a recon lighter-than-air vehicle, not a fighter.

Sometimes Bats, you're a little too literal. I was referring to the series letters (the A and B at the end), not a designator.

Not only is the Rebels A-Wing noticeably bulkier (or at least wider compared to its length) than the RotJ one, but the (presumably guns) cylindrical thingies on the wintips are a lot more massive.

The guns are a fair point, but I'd caution reading anything into the 'bulkier' aspect. Like I said, could be a trick of the perspective in that image. And at any rate something like that I'd put in the same category Vympel did for the ISD necks: a stylistic difference that has no real impact 'in-universe'.

I forgot the damned Smiley again.
Sorry, I don't see perspective making that much of a difference, that's clearly a different model A-wing. And why shouldn't it be? There's tons of different versions of real world aircraft, sometimes with significant visual differences. (The various wing shapes and canopy designs on the Spitfire, P-51, Bf-109 and Fw-190 in WW2 come to mind).