StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I am so totally gonna pit Mohammad Jihad against the Kali cultists.

Deranged bald men, FIGHT!

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Actually it goes at 200 knots with range up to 13km. The only issue is whether the submarine can get that close and not make a racket, and get past all the submarines guarding the CVBG, and at the same time launch the thing and hope the torpedo runs fast enough and no ship can dodge.

Because it's likely an ASROC would catch the submarine first.

Hah! This is why we have monstrous 800mm torpedo tubes: we can use a two-stage torpedo!

Think about it: mount the Shkval on a classic, heavy torpedo, which will deliver it to within the 13km engagement envelope. The sub can then GTF out of dodge, dive as deep as possible and start praying. The torpedo runs its course, rises to lower depth and fires off the Shkval for a terminal 200 knot run towards the CVBG with a 20kt gift.

All we need to do is design the sub around the concept of it using nuclear weapons by default,make it small, lean and with two titanium pressure hulls. Since what we want to do is keep MESS CVNs away, it doesn't even need to be fast.

Then tie them to directed nuclear sea mines embedded in the bottom, massive AShM spam, spaceborne nukes and huge bomber swarms.

Al-Akharabat OOB edited into the Katangwa Free State (Canissian proxies); number and type of Canissian units rotated there are updated.

Plots coming WRT KFS/Veleria.

PeZook wrote:

Steve wrote:

Bluewolf wrote:Someone said it was occupied....god I must be an idiot. Oh well I will pick off from where I left off soon enough then.

They were teasing you.

What do you mean? Cialan was brutally subjugated by PeZookia for insulting our cooking. We've been making them eat pierogi ever since.

I'm pretty sure that's tantamount to genocide. I hearby declare war on PeZookia!

*PeZookia calls in SNC*

Oh shit! Article 3! MESS to war!

*nukes fly*

*Byzantium sits out like the pussies they are*

*world ends*

Oh shit. Well, guess we have to reboot.

*begins planning thread for SDN World: Redux of the Redux, Because We Suck As World Leaders*

Hmmm...maybe not. On a more serious note:

PeZook wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Actually it goes at 200 knots with range up to 13km. The only issue is whether the submarine can get that close and not make a racket, and get past all the submarines guarding the CVBG, and at the same time launch the thing and hope the torpedo runs fast enough and no ship can dodge.

Because it's likely an ASROC would catch the submarine first.

Hah! This is why we have monstrous 800mm torpedo tubes: we can use a two-stage torpedo!

Think about it: mount the Shkval on a classic, heavy torpedo, which will deliver it to within the 13km engagement envelope. The sub can then GTF out of dodge, dive as deep as possible and start praying. The torpedo runs its course, rises to lower depth and fires off the Shkval for a terminal 200 knot run towards the CVBG with a 20kt gift.

All we need to do is design the sub around the concept of it using nuclear weapons by default,make it small, lean and with two titanium pressure hulls. Since what we want to do is keep MESS CVNs away, it doesn't even need to be fast.

Then tie them to directed nuclear sea mines embedded in the bottom, massive AShM spam, spaceborne nukes and huge bomber swarms.

I'm reasonably sure that, after Shep's carrier-killer SSANs, the MESS has invested quite a bit into ASW equipment and tactics. Plus the usual defenses against missiles that a CVBG normally carries. Of course if you're designing it to always shoot off nukes then see my above scenario for where that leads.

Just sayin' homies.

PeZook wrote:Think about it: mount the Shkval on a classic, heavy torpedo, which will deliver it to within the 13km engagement envelope. The sub can then GTF out of dodge, dive as deep as possible and start praying. The torpedo runs its course, rises to lower depth and fires off the Shkval for a terminal 200 knot run towards the CVBG with a 20kt gift.

I assume we're using hyper-cavitating torpedoes with rocket boosters or something...

Well, I did think about putting the Skval on a rocket and drop it off like the Klub, but I was generally worried that an SM-4 might hit it before it gets a chance to get into the 17-50km engagement radius. Unless....

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Well, I did think about putting the Skval on a rocket and drop it off like the Klub, but I was generally worried that an SM-4 might hit it before it gets a chance to get into the 17-50km engagement radius. Unless....

Better not to risk it. The hypercavitating torpedo literally creates a vacuum or bubble around itself (I guess it would have to be a shallow-water system), and has a rocket it uses for propulsion rather than a propeller, taking the vacuum/bubble with it as it goes. 'Course, given that the last I heard of it was a few years ago in Popular Science, it may not actually be feasible.

Ryan Thunder wrote:Better not to risk it. The hypercavitating torpedo literally creates a vacuum or bubble around itself (I guess it would have to be a shallow-water system), and has a rocket it uses for propulsion rather than a propeller, taking the vacuum/bubble with it as it goes. 'Course, given that the last I heard of it was a few years ago in Popular Science, it may not actually be feasible.

Drop off the torpedo from high altitude then, and then let it sink for a while before running the system.

Meh, those things are only useful with nuclear weapons, and then you'll invite massive MESS retribution.

So, it's getting to be that time again: Military acquisitions for the Duchy of Langley!

Planned Air Wing for Future Langley Navy Aircraft Carrier
24 x F-14E Super Tomcat [already own]
24 x A-7L Corsair II [can produce myself]
8 x A-6F Intruder [possible rebuild from existing A-6Es in storage; new-build preferable]
4 x KA-6F Intruder [possible rebuild from existing KA-6Ds in storage; new-build preferable]
8 x S-3C Viking [need to purchase]
4 x EA-6C Prowler [need to purchase]
4 x ES-3C Shadow [need to purchase]
4 x E-2D Hawkeye [need to purchase]
8 x MH-60R Seahawk [need to purchase]
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk [need to purchase]

Other Stuff I Need
60 x UH-60M Black Hawk
4 x MH-60S Knighthawk
48 x Mikoyan MiG-31T
12 x Tupolev Tu-22BM [optional, may drop if other stuff proves to be more expensive]
8 x Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche IV (two-seater variant)
16 x F-16XL Fighting Falcon (two-seater variant)

So, who'll sell to me, and how much?

RogueIce wrote:I'm pretty sure that's tantamount to genocide. I hearby declare war on PeZookia!

*PeZookia calls in SNC*

Oh shit! Article 3! MESS to war!

*nukes fly*

*Byzantium sits out like the pussies they are*

*world ends*

Oh shit. Well, guess we have to reboot.

*begins planning thread for SDN World: Redux of the Redux, Because We Suck As World Leaders*

Erm.. I would like to point out that destroying my bread and butter might lead to me throwing my own nukes around...

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote: Other Stuff I Need
48 x Mikoyan MiG-31T
12 x Tupolev Tu-22BM [optional, may drop if other stuff proves to be more expensive]
8 x Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche IV (two-seater variant)

So, who'll sell to me, and how much?

Er.. lemme think. I guess the MiG-31T is about 60 million a piece. The Tu-22BM about 60-75 million I guess. The Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche IV about 60 million as well.

What does Langley need all that hardware for anyway?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote: Other Stuff I Need
48 x Mikoyan MiG-31T
12 x Tupolev Tu-22BM [optional, may drop if other stuff proves to be more expensive]
8 x Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche IV (two-seater variant)

So, who'll sell to me, and how much?

Er.. lemme think. I guess the MiG-31T is about 60 million a piece. The Tu-22BM about 60-75 million I guess. The Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche IV about 60 million as well.

All together, that's $4 billion by itself, without adding the costs of the other stuff I plan on buying. I'll have to delay my plan to replace my F-106s with MiG-31s until next year at the earliest; I think I'll also have to hold off on buying additional Tu-22s for the time being. Just the eight two-seater Typhoon Tranche IVs will do for now; that'll be $480 million.

Steve wrote:What does Langley need all that hardware for anyway?

I bought myself a new aircraft carrier, so I need an air wing for it. Also, I bought a bunch of military surplus from Shepistan way back in the day (albeit with financial assistance from the CSR), and I'm in the process of replacing all that old junk with newer materiel. I'm also putting in some other orders to round out the rest of my aerial assets.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Well, I did think about putting the Skval on a rocket and drop it off like the Klub, but I was generally worried that an SM-4 might hit it before it gets a chance to get into the 17-50km engagement radius. Unless....

Why use a missile? Use a torpedo as the first stage

It should work until the MESS gets an effectice anti-torpedo system capable of engaging an incoming Shkval.

As for MESS retribution, well, it's going to turn nuclear anyway, so...we need to make sure the nukes on those CVBGs are not used

Course, given that the last I heard of it was a few years ago in Popular Science, it may not actually be feasible.

The Shkval exists, though it is unguided. Guided version may or may not exist, but probably have to slow down to reacquire their targets and then speed up again, since the supercavitation bubble makes it impossible to use sonar.

PeZook wrote:Why use a missile? Use a torpedo as the first stage

It should work until the MESS gets an effectice anti-torpedo system capable of engaging an incoming Shkval.

As for MESS retribution, well, it's going to turn nuclear anyway, so...we need to make sure the nukes on those CVBGs are not used

So.. what will provide mid-course guidance? There's no possible method to transmit mid-course guidance data underwater. Even if we come up with a Shkval III with 400knots speed, it takes 6 mins to cross 50 km, and in that time, a ship steaming at 30knots would have travelled 3 km.

The Shkval II is definitely guided. What it does is it slows down on the last leg and then passively, or actively searches for targets then guides itself to the target.

Regardless, we still have the issue of mid-course guidance. I'd personally prefer a slow torp that's silent and only speeds up on the last leg.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Regardless, we still have the issue of mid-course guidance. I'd personally prefer a slow torp that's silent and only speeds up on the last leg.

Sometimes, I think we're talking in two different languages.

That's exactly what I was talking about. A classic, superheavy torpedo (you know, with a screw) that carries a supercavitating second stage. Which in turn carries a nuke.

If we're worried about accuracy, increase the yield

PeZook wrote:Sometimes, I think we're talking in two different languages.

That's exactly what I was talking about. A classic, superheavy torpedo (you know, with a screw) that carries a supercavitating second stage. Which in turn carries a nuke.

If we're worried about accuracy, increase the yield

Well... I have already talked to you about that before via PM, unless you have forgotten. We probably have to configure the torp to go to second stage somewhere around 8km before the target and race maybe... 400-500 knots. I'm not too familiar with underwater hydrodynamics so I will leave it at 400knots. Range has to be limited to 50 km unless you want a cable to the submarine running for 50km or more.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Well... I have already talked to you about that before via PM, unless you have forgotten. We probably have to configure the torp to go to second stage somewhere around 8km before the target and race maybe... 400-500 knots. I'm not too familiar with underwater hydrodynamics so I will leave it at 400knots. Range has to be limited to 50 km unless you want a cable to the submarine running for 50km or more.

I don't seem to recall...

Why use cable guidance? We live in an age of modern electronics ; Once we figure out a rough position of the carrier, the torpedo could use inertial guidance to approach, then locate the carrier's machinery noises, correct its aim, and get to the Shkval release point. Boom.

PeZook wrote:I don't seem to recall...

Why use cable guidance? We live in an age of modern electronics ; Once we figure out a rough position of the carrier, the torpedo could use inertial guidance to approach, then locate the carrier's machinery noises, correct its aim, and get to the Shkval release point. Boom.

Because 50 knots and 25 km is enough time for an aircraft carrier to run away. I have no idea how sensitive the electronics on the torpedo are. I don't reckon the range to be great because of the small size and lack of processing power. Unless you want to fit a 1MT warhead, I suggest sticking with wire guidance.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Because 50 knots and 25 km is enough time for an aircraft carrier to run away. I have no idea how sensitive the electronics on the torpedo are. I don't reckon the range to be great because of the small size and lack of processing power. Unless you want to fit a 1MT warhead, I suggest sticking with wire guidance.

Small size? We're talking about massive carrier-killer 800mm torpedoes. You could stick a fully decked out PC mainboard in there with room to spare

It could just spool a wire out to a certain range, then switch to internal homing. It's not like a carrier group is stealthy...

PeZook wrote:Small size? We're talking about massive carrier-killer 800mm torpedoes. You could stick a fully decked out PC mainboard in there with room to spare

It could just spool a wire out to a certain range, then switch to internal homing. It's not like a carrier group is stealthy...

Well, technically, only you and Shroom operate torps that large. The largest I operate is 650mm. I may employ bigger torps in the future, but not in the near future. WHile that happens, I will be busy doing tests on my two test boats, one of which should be coming out of the docks next year.

Holy shit that's one expensive sub...costs as much as a Virginia.

PeZook wrote:Holy shit that's one expensive sub...costs as much as a Virginia.

I think I made a € to $ conversion error there . Corrected. They're still expensive though, particularly for small nations like us.

PeZook wrote:Holy shit that's one expensive sub...costs as much as a Virginia.

Which is understandable, they are trying for a 1st World level operaitonal sub...but none of their shipyards has past experience with that kind of shopbuilding. Its all early generation SSKs and SSGNs. Going from that to a low production order of high performance hunter-killer SSGNs of course its gonna cost.