The Empire's Best Use for ST ships?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Scrap em all!

[Admiral Valdemar]

World's largest paperweights for a Bible the size of Kansas.

[Skelron]

Nah I've got it... similar to the reward for a good officer idea but with a subtle differance...

Vader:- You have failed me for the last time Admiral [Insert name]
Admiral [Name]:- 'this is it, he's going to kill me... oh well nothing for it I suppose but to wait... hay why arn't I choking yet...
Vader:- I have your transfer paper's already for you...
Admiral [Name] reads papers at first the look on his face is one of confusion 'Transfer... dosn't he usually kill us round about now?...' Then fear crosses his face.... 'My Lord please NO anything but that, I beg you not a federation ship duty!!'
Vader:- stalks off as the entire bridge looks with a great deal of pity upon the unfortunate admiral...

as an added punishment for particular a realllyyy bad failure they have to use the holodecks... three hours a day!!

[Solid Snake]

Imperial Officer: Starfleet should be hauling garbage!

Jean-Luc Picard: Dont you think you should....rephrase that?

Imp: (Imitating English Accent) Your right. I should. I didnt mean to say that Starfleet should be hauling garbage... I meant to say Starfleet should be hauled away AS garbage! (laughs)

Picard stands up and punches him, a fight between Imperials and Starfleet ensues. Then a squad of Stormies arrive...

...A minute later, all SF officers are lying dead with a Texas-Sized hole in their chests

[Master Arachnos]

OTHER:

Human Shield, or in SW speak 'Bantha Poodoo'

[NecronLord]

chaff for dealing with torps a la AOTC

[Renewed_Valour1]

[quote="Master of Ossus"
6. They are crew-intensive, and maintenance intensive. [/quote]

And ISDs aren't?

[Mr. B]

Put them all in a single system and make them launch a direct assualt on the Death Star. It's good practice for the Imperial Gunners, they never get to do anything the Superlaser guys get all the fun.

[RedImperator]

Assuming the conquest is relatively free of bloodshed (frankly, I think the Trek powers minus the Borg and maybe the Dominion would pretty much give up after one battle in a realistic scenario), they'd still be useful in the Milky Way. My thinking is this: the Empire is stretched too thin in the home galaxy to garrison much more than a token force in the Milky Way. It would be enough to, say, BDZ Qu'o'nos if the Klingons rebelled, but not enough to do basic things like patrol for pirates and the like. It would be cheaper and easier just to let the locals handle it, and it would ease the sting of being conquered some, making for easier integration. And the Milky Way will be grossly impoverished by SW standards (miniscule industry producing hopelessly primitive technology--if you don't have an economy, you don't have money), so the AQ powers won't be able to buy real starships right away. So why not keep the old warp fleets in service as system patrol craft or something until the Empire can move a greater presence in or Kuat establishes a subsidiary yard at Alpha Centauri or something? Afterwards, most of them would probably end up being scrapped, but a few could be towed back to Imperial space as war trophies and more could be kept around as local historical curiosities (for example, wouldn't the Enterprise-E (assuming she survived), as the last of the great line of Federation starships named Enterprise, be of some historical relavance to humans living on Earth?),

Of course, if the conquest if protracted and bloody (or just bloody), then there probabaly won't be much of a Starfleet left to dispose of, save some largish chunks of debris to be hauled away for being navigational hazards.

[RayCav of ASVS]

Assuming the conquest is relatively free of bloodshed (frankly, I think the Trek powers minus the Borg and maybe the Dominion would pretty much give up after one battle in a realistic scenario), they'd still be useful in the Milky Way. My thinking is this: the Empire is stretched too thin in the home galaxy to garrison much more than a token force in the Milky Way. It would be enough to, say, BDZ Qu'o'nos if the Klingons rebelled, but not enough to do basic things like patrol for pirates and the like. It would be cheaper and easier just to let the locals handle it, and it would ease the sting of being conquered some, making for easier integration. And the Milky Way will be grossly impoverished by SW standards (miniscule industry producing hopelessly primitive technology--if you don't have an economy, you don't have money), so the AQ powers won't be able to buy real starships right away. So why not keep the old warp fleets in service as system patrol craft or something until the Empire can move a greater presence in or Kuat establishes a subsidiary yard at Alpha Centauri or something? Afterwards, most of them would probably end up being scrapped, but a few could be towed back to Imperial space as war trophies and more could be kept around as local historical curiosities (for example, wouldn't the Enterprise-E (assuming she survived), as the last of the great line of Federation starships named Enterprise, be of some historical relavance to humans living on Earth?),

Of course, if the conquest if protracted and bloody (or just bloody), then there probabaly won't be much of a Starfleet left to dispose of, save some largish chunks of debris to be hauled away for being navigational hazards.

I beleive that won't be a problem. If the need arises, a fleet of ISDs could be deployed directly from the main Imp fleet back home. In the meantime, you can still build fleets of ships that just happen to be designed for patrol

It has been shown that SW has the capacity to do this. The Corellian Corvette, IPV-1, Enforcer class, Agave class, and numerous small ships are prime canidates, and its even possible to build sufficient numbers within the SW galaxy, without the need of a shipyard in the ST galaxy.

Besides, ST ships are far too dangerous. It's best to use them either as museum ships, in a use without their warp cores and where they are out of danger from debris, or not at all and just send them to the scrappers.

[Lusankya]

Point and laugh.

[NecronLord]

*points*

AH-HA Stupid feds!

[Master of Ossus]

[quote="Master of Ossus"
6. They are crew-intensive, and maintenance intensive.

And ISDs aren't? [/quote]

ISD's do not fall apart, and their ratio of crew:utility is far smaller than the ST ships have. ISD's also do not require CONSTANT maintenance, as observed when they were stripped down and used as cargo-haulers prior to the Battle of Sluiss Van. ST ships have been seen to have all of these problems, and they are much slower than any of the SW ships. That merely adds to their long list of problems, including the fact that ST ships seem to be downright dangerous to operate.

[starfury]

ISD's do not fall apart, and their ratio of crew:utility is far smaller than the ST ships have. ISD's also do not require CONSTANT maintenance, as observed when they were stripped down and used as cargo-haulers prior to the Battle of Sluiss Van. ST ships have been seen to have all of these problems, and they are much slower than any of the SW ships. That merely adds to their long list of problems, including the fact that ST ships seem to be downright dangerous to operate.

LOL, too true. federation ships are essantially accidents waiting to happen

[Master of Ossus]

My thinking is this: the Empire is stretched too thin in the home galaxy to garrison much more than a token force in the Milky Way.

Why? The Empire has vastly more ships than it really needs to protect itself, especially since the Rebels have a very small following. Remember that the Empire was able to build the DSII in secrecy, indicating enormous resources and industrial capability. It would have no problems dispatching a hundred or so ISD's to the AQ, which is MORE than enough to put down any rebellions.

It would be enough to, say, BDZ Qu'o'nos if the Klingons rebelled, but not enough to do basic things like patrol for pirates and the like.

Why is the Empire worried about pirates in the ST universe? Its ships are all but impervious to ST weapons, and they are fast enough to easily outrun them.

It would be cheaper and easier just to let the locals handle it, and it would ease the sting of being conquered some, making for easier integration.

Okay, why is it cheaper and easier to allow locals to handle pirates? It is just as easy to send a single ISD as to mobilize parts of SF again, especially since they would need an extensive refit, and new crews would likely have to be trained in their use. In fact, most pirates would need a single SW frigate or small cruiser to finish off. An ISD would not even need to be used--and frigates have even smaller crews than most ST ships. And why does the Empire give a damn about how the AQ feels about being conquered? What are they going to do, bleed on Stormtroopers?

And the Milky Way will be grossly impoverished by SW standards (miniscule industry producing hopelessly primitive technology--if you don't have an economy, you don't have money), so the AQ powers won't be able to buy real starships right away.

So? Imperial ships would be provided to protect them. They are part of the Empire, now, and the AQ would then have little or no need to purchase its own ships for defense. The Romans never had their conquered enemies purchase their own legions.

So why not keep the old warp fleets in service as system patrol craft or something until the Empire can move a greater presence in or Kuat establishes a subsidiary yard at Alpha Centauri or something?

We have already established why ST ships are dangerous to operate, and not cost-effective when compared with SW ships.

Afterwards, most of them would probably end up being scrapped, but a few could be towed back to Imperial space as war trophies and more could be kept around as local historical curiosities (for example, wouldn't the Enterprise-E (assuming she survived), as the last of the great line of Federation starships named Enterprise, be of some historical relavance to humans living on Earth?),

Why would the Empire need those as war trophies? ST ships would only be of ANY historical significance in the AQ.

[Antediluvian]

Sell them to the Rebellion through third parties.

[HRogge]

Maybe the Empire could just replace the antimatter reactor with a fusion reactor and keep the ships as near system patrol ships... *G*
Warp Engines don't need antimatter...

[Master of Ossus]

Maybe the Empire could just replace the antimatter reactor with a fusion reactor and keep the ships as near system patrol ships... *G*
Warp Engines don't need antimatter...

But why would they need them as system patrol ships, and first they would have to upgrade all of the other systems on the ship (weapons, shields, hull, engines, electronics, controls, etc.) and all of that costs money--probably more than just building a new ship of the same scale.

[Darth Yoshi]

Why? The Empire has vastly more ships than it really needs to protect itself, especially since the Rebels have a very small following. Remember that the Empire was able to build the DSII in secrecy, indicating enormous resources and industrial capability. It would have no problems dispatching a hundred or so ISD's to the AQ, which is MORE than enough to put down any rebellions.

In fact, most of the Imperial fleet was used not to fight the Rebels, but to prevent internecine warfare between species, like the Diamala and Ishori.

[spongyblue]

Put the saucer section on a planet and turn it into a dentist office or a starbucks. I swear my dentist office back home was designed after enterprise -d

[RedImperator]

I realize now I should clarify how I envision the early post-conquest Alpha Quadrant, because I admit my idea about the old ST ships doesn't make much sense otherwise. The Empire has 25,000 ISDs (plus hundreds of thousands or millions of smaller vessels), but it has to control 1 million member systems (well, 11,999,999 after Alderran), plus millions more thinly populated colonies and outposts, plus long frontiers with the Unknown Regions and whatnot. I recognize the Imperial fleet is enormous, and they've got the capability to build even more, but they've got a 400 billion star galaxy to control, and since the Imperial governing philosophy is "rule by fear of force", that Imperial fleet absolutely needs to be able to respond to any trouble in the home galaxy immediately. The Milky Way represents no threat to the home galaxy whatsoever. It's ships can't cross interstellar space and the Imperials can easily control a chokepoint like a wormhole.

And I think people who think the AQ powers will go to war with the Empire are overestimating their courage or underestimating their intelligence (granted, it's hard to imagine doing the latter). The Imperials are further ahead of the AQ than the 21st century United States is ahead of a Cro-Magnon tribe. One show of force, and the whole lot of them, Feddies, Romulans, Klingons and all fold up like cheap card tables. Throw in an Imperial promise to fend off any potential Borg or Dominion incursions, and the locals might find themselves not minding the Empire too much. So there's no real reason to destroy the local powers, and you've got a lot of commitments back home, so why not let the locals continue to operate as client states until the great engine of capitalism brings Imperial money and settlement into the new galaxy? Let the locals keep using their ships to do local things with local crews (I should have explained that earlier--I never meant for IMPERIAL officers to ride on those death traps). If somebody's warp core cooks off, well, so what? It's the futuristic equivilant of a bunch of townies plowing into the side of a barn with their pickup truck. A tragedy for the hicks and yokels, but nothing for the state governor to concern himself with.

The situation would be temporary, of course. Like I said before, once industry and settlers move in, more REAL starships will have to be introduced as the client states become more and more tightly bound to Coruscant. By the time they're full blown Imperial provinces or sectors or whatever, the local defense forces would use the same equipment their counterparts in the more backwards parts of the imperial galaxy use. And a force the size of the Death Squadron (minus, probably, an Executor) should be sufficient to make sure all the emperor's newfound subjects actually REMEMBER they're subjects. At that point, what most of the people in this thread have said is true: a few might end up as parts of someone's starship collection, a small handful might become exhibits in Imperial museums, a larger number made into local museums in the Milky Way, and a few more bought up for miscellaneous schemes. The rest get junked.

[Master of Ossus]

Hmmm... In this case, I think that the Empire should be able to continue with the UFP and its ships as a sort of puppet-state. That appears to be what you are envisioning. In this case, perhaps only decommissioning half or two thirds of SF would be necessary, and the rest of the ships would be allowed to continue functioning more or less as SF had been. The rest of the ships could be safely scrapped, with Imperial warships patrolling the AQ and preventing any Borg or Dominion attacks (and, perhaps, even going on the offensive), but the rest of the ships could be allowed to continue more or less as they had been before the Empire ever appeared in the AQ.

[RedImperator]

Hmmm... In this case, I think that the Empire should be able to continue with the UFP and its ships as a sort of puppet-state. That appears to be what you are envisioning. In this case, perhaps only decommissioning half or two thirds of SF would be necessary, and the rest of the ships would be allowed to continue functioning more or less as SF had been. The rest of the ships could be safely scrapped, with Imperial warships patrolling the AQ and preventing any Borg or Dominion attacks (and, perhaps, even going on the offensive), but the rest of the ships could be allowed to continue more or less as they had been before the Empire ever appeared in the AQ.

That's exactly how I envision it, actually. It wouldn't be too bad a deal, really, for the locals. There's peace and order in the galaxy. The borders between the powers would become mostly theoretical, allowing for increased trade and greatly relaxed tensions. You don't have to worry about becoming a slave to the Dominion or a Borg drone anymore. And if the Imperial viceroy knew what he was doing, he'd use the fleet to scare the local governments into halting their more onerous policies, irritating the client governments but helping win over the common man. Once investment starts flowing in from the Imperial galaxy, the AQ will see an influx of astonishing new technologies and wealth beyond their wildest imaginations. For the common Feddie citizen, the coming of the Empire will mean the return of capitalism to human society, and with it the opportunity to use one's talents to improve one's station in life, not serve some abstract "good of humanity".

Before someone goes and points out the obvious, I know this means the Empire would have to act rationally, something like the Roman Empire in a good mood. The Empire COULD behave like a pack of space Nazis, rule through terror, and make everybody wish for the Federation back. This, of course, wouldn't make a lick of difference to the Empire initially, but it's not very wise to breed potential new Rebels when you could have loyal Imperial citizens.

[Master of Ossus]

Actually, your scenario is much the same as what the Nazis did with France after WWII. They conquered and annexed half of it, and allowed "Vichy" France to survive as an (cough, un-cough) independent puppet state. They seized most of France's military equipment, and took direct control over a number of branches and aspects of the government in Southern France. Incidentally, the British also destroyed a considerable amount of France's military in harbor in order to prevent the Nazis from taking France's valuable fleet. That would never happen, in this scenario, but almost everything else would be very similar to what we have, here.

[RedImperator]

Vichy France. Perfect analogy. When I mentioned the Nazis, I was thinking more along the lines of what happened in the East. That seems to be the way a lot of people think the Empire would behave.