Metahive wrote:Havok wrote:He is clearly sad over departing with his mother, I'm sorry you need tears and exposition to see that, but that is your fault. On top of that you are confusing and combining leaving her to live her life with Anakin having premonitions of her torture and fucking death, which he is forced to ignore until it is too late. Kinda a different thing.
No I didn't ignore anything, it's more like you refuse to actually see my point and instead focus on insulting me.
Oh waaaaa. Maybe this is why you dislike Anakin so much, you feel like he is a reflection of your own whining.
Of course he blames Obi-Wan. He blames the whole Order for it. That's the fucking point. What the fuck movie are you watching? They told him to "let go" and basically ignore his dreams, which turned out to be 100% accurate and because of that, his feelings of guilt are transferred to and focused on keeping Padme alive no matter the cost because he is terrified of her dying and feeling what he did when his mother died and DOING WHAT HE DID when his mother died because he is 100% positive that if he doesn't act this time, Padme will die.
None of that is portrayed in any sensical way in the movies. Anakin is shown flaunting Jedi rules whenever he feels like it and yet he never even tried to inform himself of his mother's well-being to the point he was completely surprised to learn she was free and married. That's not what a loving son looks and acts like.
How is it nonsensical? Anakin has dreams about his mother being tortured and dying. Turns out his mother was being tortured and died. So when he has the same dreams about Padme... he should just ignore them? He should listen to Yoda and Obi-Wan again and just ignore his dreams/premonitions that were already proven to come true? And you state that Anakin flaunts the rules of the Jedi in the same sentence you point out that HE OBVIOUSLY FUCKING DIDN'T not even to check in on his mother or else he WOULD have known that she was freed. Oops.
Anakin's guilt over killing the sand people is DIRECTLY tied to his guilt over not saving his mother when he knew what was happening to her.
And he was, as you so clearly want him to do, confiding in a friend about his feelings, which you call whiny, yet would be the "adult" thing in one of your stupid versions.
You clearly haven't grasped a damn thing I've written.
It hardly makes sense.
As for him being reckless and cocky, when is he reckless? Because he jumps out of a speeder? He lands exactly where he wants to be. He isn't any more cocky or arrogant than any other Jedi on screen, he just happens to be a teenager. But tell me, how is someone that is labeled as the "Chosen One" and knows he is naturally stronger in the Force than any Jedi in existence being cocky because he wants to be a better and more powerful Jedi? Is that cocky or impatient?
Believing in your own hype is not a sign of maturity when there's nothing to show for it but the Midichlorian count being OVER 9000.
Hype? His power level is fact. Obi-Wan and many others believed for a fact he was the Chosen One. That isn't hype.
For the record, !Animated Anakin thinks the whole Chosen One Business is a bunch of hooey (see the Mortis three parter). As for being reckless and cocky, well, he rushes to Geonosis with Padme alone without even knowing where Obi Wan is held and how strong the fortifications are, loses his lightsaber and is captured for his troubles.
He goes to Geonosis because Padme goes. He was listening to the Jedi Council at that point. Before that he disobeys his orders to go to his mother which would have been a better example, but it is one of only two cases of him disobeying direct orders in the movies and each one has to do with either his mother or wife.
He rushes at Dooku and gets his hand hacked off for nothing.
Again, impatient and angry, reckless yes, but not cocky. Oh and P.S. since you didn't watch the actual movie, Anakin gets a lighting blast when he rushes in to take on Dooku. His hand gets cut off after a fairly long lightsaber duel because he is simply outmatched by Dooku at that point, not because of being reckless or cocky. And even when they later attack him together, Dooku still stands up to them as a pair when both Jedi are even stronger.
He shoots at the Buzz droids on Obi Wan's ship and predictably hits the craft instead.
As opposed to doing what? Just letting them destroy Obi-Wan's ship. For fucks sake if this is going to be your threshold of "reckless and cocky" then the whole Rebel Fucking Alliance was reckless and cocky.
He rushes into the altercation between Palpatine and Windu and decides on a whim to trust a known liar and deceiver. His recklessness brought about the rise of the Galactic Empire and is acknowledged in universe to be a major flaw.
Rushes? He fucking stood in the Jedi Temple staring out the window contemplating what to do for what, like 5 minutes, which given the circumstances was an eternity. Yes his motivations were selfish, but had Mace listened to him and done the right thing, maybe his dumb ass would still be alive (he is alive by the way) and Anakin wouldn't have become Vader. Oh and now you are blaming the Empire on Anakin's decision making...
OK.
OMG a 19 year old being impatient and impulsive! How is that even REALISTIC?!
There are people who act maturly at 19 years old and some who don't. The latter I don't find to be sympathetic.
Of course you don't when you either chose to ignore or just flat out don't understand their circumstances and motivations.
Palpatine sure as fuck used his guilt about the sandpeople against Anakin, you know the scene where Palpatine fucking says LITERALLY "Remember what you told me about your mother and the sandpeople.", and you then HEAR the sounds of the sandpeople screaming while Anakin winces at the memory, along with the Jedi not trusting him and being able to save Padme from certain death, were all used as hooks. For fucks sake, pay attention.
Major case of SHOW DON'T TELL. You can tell that Anakin feels guilty about it, but you also need to show it. It's just like when we're told that Captain Archer is a trained diplomat when he's constantly acting undiplomatic. There was no change in Anakin's attitude whatsoever, so I don't care what the movie TELLs me is the case, I want to be shown.
Show? There was no change in Anakin's attitude? How do you sit there and look at TPM Anakin then look at AOTC/ROTS Anakin after his mother dies and he killed the sand people and say there was no change in attitude? Are you blind. Every thing we see in Anakin in the latter two movies is showing him on an emotional roller coaster completely unsure of what is right and wrong, when in The Phantom Menace he is lecturing his mother, Padme and Qui-Gon Fucking Ginn on what is the right thing to do. HOLY SHIT. Watch the fucking movies without your "I hate Jake LLoyd and Hayden Christiansen" blinders on.
And let me point this out, just exactly when is Anakin supposed to show all this guilt? Following Padme to save Obi-Wan? Fighting through the droid factory? Fighting off the three monsters in the Geonosian arena? Fighting thousands of battle droids in that same arena? Fighting Dooku on Geonosis? Flying in to save the Chancellor in the Battle of Coruscant? Fighting for his life against Dooku? Crashing the Separatist battle cruiser while it burns ups and falls apart during reentry?
Have you considered that it is his guilt that causes him to be so impulsive in his attack against Dooku? Or it is his guilt that wants him to fall back and save the clone troopers escorting he and Obi-Wan in the battle of Coruscant? Or, and this is the obvious one, that his guilt drives how he reacts to the dreams about Padme?
His unwavering drive and willingness to do pretty much anything to make sure his dreams about Padme never come true clearly demonstrate a broken and guilt ridden psyche that can easily be traced to his inaction concerning his mother and his over reaction after the fact of her death. All you have to do is pay attention to the movies. Despite what you think of the dialogue or writing, the motivations of the characters are clear as fucking day.
And yes, confronting your superiors, temper tantrum or no, is definitely more favorable and HONEST than going home to bitch to your wife or your friend, who is one of those superiors, because it puts them both in a position they may not want to be in, like oh I don't know, agreeing with your superiors. And again, it's childish, passive-aggressive and whiny, which you derided before.
Acting like a spoiled brat that didn't get a pony for his 16th birthday in front of your superÃors will make it less likely for them to acquiesce to his demands, especially when they already look suspicious upon open displays of negative emotions in general. Anakin acted unprofessionally and counterproductively.
Also, who says I want Anakin to act passive-aggressive and whiny? You're presuming things not in evidence. He wouldn't have to do it in a whiny and entitled way, just discussing with Padme and Obi Wan why he wasn't made a master and what he should do next. Obi Wan could tell him that he definitely deserved being made master and that he would have a talk with his colleagues later and that might have planted the thought firmly in Anakin's mind that he was entitled to more. Logical progress in character development.
Complaining to Obi-Wan about the council's decision which Obi-Wan is on, is totally passive-aggressive. Obi-Wan can't enact any change and he gets put in a shitty position. And Obi-Wan fucking basically tells him what you want him to in ROTS, geezuz... "Hey dude, calm down, no one as young as you has ever been on the council. It's already an honor. Being a master will come. Be patient."
And you know what, stop citing "!Clone Wars Anakin" vs "!Movie Anakin" because if you factor in Anakin's actions in the cartoon, his outburst in the council chambers is not only completely fucking justified, but it is absolutely warranted. Christ, what exactly does a guy need to do to win approval of the council? Oh and "!Clone Wars Anakin" breaks more rules and disobeys more orders in three episodes than Anakin does in all three prequel movies. All the cartoon does is make the Jedi look like even bigger dicks for the way they treated and handled a guy that REPEATEDLY put his life on the line to save them all multiple times over.
Discussing things that depress you with your friends is a pretty normal fucking thing to do.
I didn't say it wasn't. I said it's more adult to confront the people who he actually has the issue with. If you don't like that he lost his temper and felt completely insulted fine, but he was correct to address the issue with them and not his pals.
Anakin's flaw is that his emotions get the better of him. But you probably missed that too.
No, I get that. What you are missing is that I think it wasn't done well and ended up making him look unsympathetic. If you like him, great, more power to you. But don't presume you can force your opinion down my throat.
Then say that, but don't blindly ignore what is shown onscreen to fit your version of what happened.
I find your comprehension of the movie unconvincing. Disagree all you want. You're wrong.
You know, I think I get now why you're so enarmored with !Movie Anakin...
I'm not enamored with anyone. Christensen's acting was wooden. His relationship with Padme was completely painful to watch because of the bad dialogue. The best acted scene in the whole PT was when Padme and Anakin weren't even in the same fucking room together. That doesn't mean that I didn't see and understand what was actually shown on screen.
