StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Ender wrote:You know, I knew that this would get turned down that road when I posted that. I fucking KNEW

Sorry, but this is a noxious weed that has to be stamped out before it is allowed to grow bloated and wallow in it's own corpulent unscientificness(besides, it violates visual canon), especially at this forum, it's anathema to our very existence and motto.

Ender wrote:

Kazeite wrote:And, I hate to dissapoint you guys, but it wasn't shrapnel that caused Leia's injury (something than can be determined by watching actual movie, not a series of screenshots ) - after Leia stumbles backward we have a good view of the walls near her - they look undamaged to me.

Provide screenshots and an explanation for why there would be bleeding from a shot of a plasma weapons.

And an explanation for how her arm produced a shower of white hot sparks when she took that hit would be helpful, too.

the fact that the shot did not blow a visible hole in the wall of a heavily fortified wall is not hard. I ANH Stormtroopers were hiting heavy blast doors and the only visible damage was black scorch marks. And the blasters caused a rain of white sparkes where it got hit. Since these sparks are quite hot they caould easily cause the damage to Leia's arm. There is not enough damage to the arm for it to be a direct hit even at a low power setting. What I don't get is, what the problem with this being a near-miss?

Slartibartfast wrote:Let's try this again, so you pathetic little trollish mind will be able to handle it:

You are SO funny

Read the following text very carefully:
There are other types of armor in SW universe besides stormtrooper armor.

And, to make sure you will actually understand what am I saying I will say it again:
There are other types of armor in SW universe besides stormtrooper armor.

Just tell me what part of that sentence you are unable to comprehend with your "pathetic little trollish mind" and I will be more than happy to explain to you, because there must be something wrong with you if you make assumptions that I had full stormtrooper armor in mind when I spoke about Han maybe wearing an armor and then gave EU examples of other armors and blast vests.

And to adress soon-to-be-famous 'incapable' discussion:

I said that "Han's blaster must've been modified very heavily, since none of the stormtrooper's blaster were capable of causing the similiar destruction of wall and floor."

Now pay attention: I said that "none of the stormtrooper's blaster were capable of causing the similiar destruction of wall and floor."

And this somehow equates to saying "stormtroopers blasters are incapable of higher power setting."?

Sigh...

Slartibartfast wrote:That's a well-known fact.

From objective point of view I must say that it was quite funny. Let's try another one:

Slartibartfast wrote:I am

Slartibartfast wrote:a lying bastard.

How's that? Do you also find it funny?

Isolder74 wrote:the fact that the shot did not blow a visible hole in the wall of a heavily fortified wall is not hard.

Thanks for proving my point. Since we both agree that the're was no visible hole that means that those shrapnels some of you spoke of must be invisible.
Also, the problem with the near miss is that:
1. There's no burn mark on the wall.
2. When Leia stumbles backward there's a second shot in front of her, which produces much more visible effects than first shot. So, either that stormtrooper found time to dial up setting on his blaster or the first shot hit Leia's arm, not the wall near her.
And, I don't think it is a near miss because it wasn't near miss (as visible in actual movie). Blast connects with Leia's arm, there is shower of sparks, Leia stumbles backwards, there's a second shot that produces more visible effects, and that's it.

I said that "Han's blaster must've been modified very heavily, since none of the stormtrooper's blaster were capable of causing the similiar destruction of wall and floor."

Now pay attention: I said that "none of the stormtrooper's blaster were capable of causing the similiar destruction of wall and floor."

And this somehow equates to saying "stormtroopers blasters are incapable of higher power setting."?

Sigh...

Sigh all you want but thats pretty much what it means in english.
You say they where not capable of causing the same amount of destruction, thats what you say, there's no way of getting around grammar.

Kazeite wrote:Thanks for proving my point. Since we both agree that the're was no visible hole that means that those shrapnels some of you spoke of must be invisible.
Also, the problem with the near miss is that:
1. There's no burn mark on the wall.
2. When Leia stumbles backward there's a second shot in front of her, which produces much more visible effects than first shot. So, either that stormtrooper found time to dial up setting on his blaster or the first shot hit Leia's arm, not the wall near her.
And, I don't think it is a near miss because it wasn't near miss (as visible in actual movie). Blast connects with Leia's arm, there is shower of sparks, Leia stumbles backwards, there's a second shot that produces more visible effects, and that's it.

I'll say it again:
1) Provide a screenshot that there was no damage to the wall
2) Explain why there would be bleeding from a hit from an energy weapon
3) Explain why human flesh would create a shower of sparks like that

There where other impacts on the wall, no damage there either, go figure, it's armor.

His Divine Shadow wrote:Sigh all you want but thats pretty much what it means in english.
You say they where not capable of causing the same amount of destruction, thats what you say, there's no way of getting around grammar.

Sigh^2...

You know, using your logic I could say that DS2 is not capable of destroying planets because in ROTJ battle it was only capable of destroying capships.

Ender wrote:I'll say it again:
1) Provide a screenshot that there was no damage to the wall.

Provide a screenshot that there was a damage to the wall.
There is at least one scorch mark on the bunker visible, actually, but nowhere near original Leia's position.

2) Explain why there would be bleeding from a hit from an energy weapon .

Because Solo brushed his finger onto it and caused bleeding?

3) Explain why human flesh would create a shower of sparks like that.

Becasue that's what happens when blaster hit something - there is shower of sparks created at the point of impact.

His Divine Shadow wrote:It looks like concrete to me in the movie, it's also grey, like concrete.

This just does not look like sandstone:


And the quote that was given, it really doesn't speak of walls, only that it was carved out of the ground, and looking at that pic, it sure doesn't look like it was carved out, it looks like any ordinary concrete structure on earth to me,

Nice pic HDS!

Sorry for my stupid comment. I was in the office and my memory tricked me.
Anyways thanks for the correction.

BTW the rest of the hangar is rock?

You know, using your logic I could say that DS2 is not capable of destroying planets because in ROTJ battle it was only capable of destroying capships.

Correction, you are not using my logic, you're just bullshitting us.
Using my logic you would never have said something as stupid as that in the first place.

_You_ fucked up, accept it, and learn to write in a manner that actually means what you're trying to convey in the future.

His Divine Shadow wrote:Correction, you are not using my logic, you're just bullshitting us.

It's not my fault that you draw incorrect conclusions from my words... from just about everyting, it would seem...

Using my logic you would never have said something as stupid as that in the first place.

Yes, I agree... I will never be able to sunk to your levels of lack of comprehension...

_You_ fucked up, accept it, and learn to write in a manner that actually means what you're trying to convey in the future.

No, really, I don't understand it... I compare power of blasters in one particular scene and you somehow assume that I am talking about all blasters in all circumstances.
It's kinda funny that you attack everything with the subtlety of charging rhino...

Learn to write in a manner that will actually point out facts that you disagree with in civilized manner. It will help a lot.

Also note that you managed to reduce yet another thread to insult contest.

Yes. You. Not me. There were other people here that actually bothered to respond in civilized manner, but you're obviously not one of them.

I just hope that it will be a lesson to you. Think first, act later.

And loosen up.

It's not my fault that you draw incorrect conclusions from my words... from just about everyting, it would seem...

So you do not know english proper, just say so.

Yes, I agree... I will never be able to sunk to your levels of lack of comprehension..

Ooh I'm so hurt...
I guess that applies to me and everyone else besides you then, I mean the fault is not in you, but in us for not reading your vauge statements to the way you want them interprepted even when their very mannerisms indicate something else.

No, really, I don't understand it... I compare power of blasters in one particular scene and you somehow assume that I am talking about all blasters in all circumstances.

You expect people to learn of your motivations when you don't even write them down? What do you think we are? Telepathic? And

Also note that you managed to reduce yet another thread to insult contest.
Yes. You. Not me. There were other people here that actually bothered to respond in civilized manner, but you're obviously not one of them

This thread is going on just fine even with your intermittant whining and inability to fess up, even when others have responded to this thing and agreed with me, yeah I get it, you're sane and the rest of the world is mad, thats it...

Let's just have the people here say what they think, Slartibartfast already answered:

Han's blaster must've been modified very heavily, since none of the stormtrooper's blaster were capable of causing the similiar destruction of wall and floor

Who where got the impression that this means that the Stormies weren't firing on as high a setting as Solo's weapon?

And who got the impression that it meant that E-11's where incapable of causing similar destruction?

I just hope that it will be a lesson to you. Think first, act later

I just hope you will learn to think, at all.

Kazeite wrote: Provide a screenshot that there was a damage to the wall.

It don't work that way and you know it.

Because Solo brushed his finger onto it and caused bleeding?

Do you even know how cauterization works? Touching it would not cause blood flow.

Becasue that's what happens when blaster hit something - there is shower of sparks created at the point of impact.

No, that's what happens when they hit something like a wall. Flesh would not react that way.

Still waiting.

His Divine Shadow wrote:

It's not my fault that you draw incorrect conclusions from my words... from just about everyting, it would seem...

So you do not know english proper, just say so.

Kazeite, if HDS misinterpreted your statement, it's because your statement was poorly worded. You said that the Stormtrooper blasters were "incapable" of causing as much damage as Han's pistol when you apparently meant to just observe that they "didn't" cause as much damage as Han's pistol. Your choice of words implied that you didn't think that the power of the Stormtrooper blasters could be increased to exceed that of Han's pistol.

Just accept that what you wrote was not what you meant so we can move on, ok?

His Divine Shadow wrote:So you do not know english proper, just say so.

Well, duh, guess what... I do not know all english tricks and rules, so sometime I make grammar errors. But I'm sure that I mastered meaning of the word "incapable".

Ooh I'm so hurt...

Your first usage of sarcasm... There's still hope for ya

I guess that applies to me and everyone else besides you then,

It applies to all people who find pleasure in insulting other people.

This thread is going on just fine even with your intermittant whining and inability to fess up,

Then when was your last on topic reponse? You just whine about my imaginable errors and nothing else.

Let's just have the people here say what they think, Slartibartfast already answered:

Snicker... since it is videly known that Slartibartfast alone counts as many "people"

And, in an attempt to bring you back on topic, there's something new: Stormtroopers commander specifically orders his people to "load weapons". What do you think - is that means that he considers setting weapons to lower setting such obvious procedure that he doesn't give specific orders?
One would consider loading weapons an obvious procedure, too...

And who got the impression that it meant that E-11's where incapable of causing similar destruction?

Um... I did. Because in that particular case they obviously were incapable of blowing parts of the wall or floor.

I just hope you will learn to think, at all.

I can think very well, now... how about you?

Ender wrote: It don't work that way and you know it.

So you think that if you propose a theory then everyone are supposed to believe it without any evidence, but if someone elese (like me) proposes their own theory they have to provide evidence that must disprove yours?

Ok, fine. Take your ROTJ casette, pop it in video player and watch the movie. There's all the evidence I need.

Do you even know how cauterization works? Touching it would not cause blood flow.

Well, cauterization causes... cauterization It means that something is... well, cauterized. However there's still living body beneath the cauterized wound. And Han wasn't exactly gentle while touching her arm.

No, that's what happens when they hit something like a wall. Flesh would not react that way.

I wonder, how many times have we seen effects of the blast on living flesh?

There's poor Greedo... and they escape, and then fight stormtroopers, and then fight more stormtroopers, and then fight even more stormtroopers, and they Leia gets hurt. Am I right?

Now tell me - was there a big flash, or even a shower of sparks when Greedo got shot?

Kazeite wrote:So you think that if you propose a theory then everyone are supposed to believe it without any evidence, but if someone elese (like me) proposes their own theory they have to provide evidence that must disprove yours?

Ok, fine. Take your ROTJ casette, pop it in video player and watch the movie. There's all the evidence I need.

Bullshit. You got called out to provide your proof, now put up or shut up. Post a fucking screen cap.

Well, cauterization causes... cauterization It means that something is... well, cauterized. However there's still living body beneath the cauterized wound. And Han wasn't exactly gentle while touching her arm.

So in otherwords, no you don't have a clue what you are talking about. When you cauterize something, you burn it shut. A cauterized would will not bleed if you squeeze at it. The veins and what not have all been burned to the point where they won't let anything through. IF you managed to squeeze hard enough (which Han would not be doing) you would bet alot more blood out they the trickle we saw.

I wonder, how many times have we seen effects of the blast on living flesh?

There's poor Greedo... and they escape, and then fight stormtroopers, and then fight more stormtroopers, and then fight even more stormtroopers, and they Leia gets hurt. Am I right?

Now tell me - was there a big flash, or even a shower of sparks when Greedo got shot?

How about this: You stop with the Darkstar style debating tactics and come clean and make flat otu statements. I don't have the movies handy, so state it falt out.

Well, duh, guess what... I do not know all english tricks and rules, so sometime I make grammar errors. But I'm sure that I mastered meaning of the word "incapable"

The word incapable was not in your original sentence either.

It applies to all people who find pleasure in insulting other people

I don't find any particular pleasure in this, it's merely annoying.

Then when was your last on topic reponse? You just whine about my imaginable errors and nothing else

Ah, lies, so it has come to that.
I guess you just happened to miss the multi-page discussion other debators here have been having on Solo's blaster and the material of the walls, etc, etc?

Snicker... since it is videly known that Slartibartfast alone counts as many "people"

An example, please try and rise above semantics.
If you want another example, we just had one, now just be... silent.

Um... I did. Because in that particular case they obviously were incapable of blowing parts of the wall or floor

Thank you, you have just shown you're clearly not to have an adequate grasp on the english language.
Look at Ted C's post for further information on how grammar works in english.
Now, give it up, you typed it wrongly, thats it, no one here is gonna believe differently anyway.

I can think very well, now... how about you?

I really doubt you can think at all given that the majority of your rebuttals are just the same simplistic replies like that, essentially just a "Nu uh, you stupid!"

Ender wrote:Bullshit. You got called out to provide your proof, now put up or shut up. Post a fucking screen cap.

Since you asked so "nicely"...



Do you see any dmage to the wall near Leia? I don't.

So in otherwords, no you don't have a clue what you are talking about. When you cauterize something, you burn it shut. A cauterized would will not bleed if you squeeze at it. The veins and what not have all been burned to the point where they won't let anything through.

I see. But in the end it all depends on the intensity of the cauterizing force.

IF you managed to squeeze hard enough (which Han would not be doing) you would bet alot more blood out they the trickle we saw.

To tell the truth, I couldn't see any 'trickle' of blood during that scene. Is it visible later?

How about this: You stop with the Darkstar style debating tactics and come clean and make flat otu statements. I don't have the movies handy, so state it falt out.

Oh, I see... and that small inconvience certainly didn't stop you from making assumptions about actual nature of the Leia's wound.

His Divine Shadow wrote:The word incapable was not in your original sentence either.

So 'incapable' means something drastically different than 'not capable'?

I don't find any particular pleasure in this, it's merely annoying.

You find insulting other people annoying? Is this what you mean? Meybe you don't know the meaning of the word 'annoying'?

Ah, lies, so it has come to that.

It has come to that a long time ago, so just stop it and it will stop.

I guess you just happened to miss the multi-page discussion other debators here have been having on Solo's blaster and the material of the walls, etc, etc?

I guess I just happened to miss any of your on-topic posts since you posted that screenshot.

Now, give it up, you typed it wrongly, thats it, no one here is gonna believe differently anyway.

You know, I'm just tired of that. Since you desperately seek some sort of victory against me, and I really don't want to ruin this thread completely, so here goes:

You're right, I am wrong, now can we finish this pointless gramar debate?

I really doubt you can think at all given that the majority of your rebuttals are just the same simplistic replies like that, essentially just a "Nu uh, you stupid!"

Just because you often use that tactic, calling me stupid and so on it doesn't mean that everyone else use this tactic as well.
And my responses are simple so you can understand them.

Also please not that you just ignored my attempt to bring discussion on topic. Now, who's the stubborn one?

Ted C wrote:Kazeite, if HDS misinterpreted your statement, it's because your statement was poorly worded. You said that the Stormtrooper blasters were "incapable" of causing as much damage as Han's pistol when you apparently meant to just observe that they "didn't" cause as much damage as Han's pistol. Your choice of words implied that you didn't think that the power of the Stormtrooper blasters could be increased to exceed that of Han's pistol.

Just accept that what you wrote was not what you meant so we can move on, ok?

I see. My apologies, but it hard to debate rationally when some people just jump to wrong conclusions all the time.

I agree that my sentence was perhaps poorly worlded to some of you. So, I didn't mean to say that stormtroopers blaster aren't capable of higher settings at all. Let's move on.

Thank you, Ted C.

Finally.

I always assumed the ROTJ shot on Leia was in fact a near miss (agreeing with earlier post).... probably due to character shields more than anything (heroes get shot in the arm and survive in other movies after all, rather than just get shot dead and end the movie right there).

Otherwise it just looks like a weak attempt to conclude that Stormtroopers are all expert marksmen, but miss on purpose, because they're trying to capture the principle characters alive (always failing and being suicidal in the process), and must be using low power settings in the middle of a heated battle (rather than stun).


Also it is mentioned on that one page (sorry I forget the url) the "Indexed Trilogy" (which covers ANH screencaps and obscure differences between the SE and THX versions on video tape)....
that shots of Imperial Officers getting blasted in the chest (with visible "energy effects") were edited out of the SE version.

So those would be more blaster effects. Obviously they're using squibs and that sort of thing to make "effects" and even stuff like sparks with explosions, so it might not be hyper-realistic. Greedo's blaster doesn't make a mark on the Cantina wall either...

I know there are more frames in between, etc etc and everybody hates him, but check out the site here for more shots: http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWblaster.html

AFAIK the only time we see the blood is when its on Han's hand(s) as he raises them when the Troopers tell him to freeze, etc.

Kurgan wrote:I always assumed the ROTJ shot on Leia was in fact a near miss (agreeing with earlier post).... probably due to character shields more than anything (heroes get shot in the arm and survive in other movies after all, rather than just get shot dead and end the movie right there).

Yeah, that's a common hero trait

Otherwise it just looks like a weak attempt to conclude that Stormtroopers are all expert marksmen, but miss on purpose, because they're trying to capture the principle characters alive (always failing and being suicidal in the process), and must be using low power settings in the middle of a heated battle (rather than stun).

I think that stormtrooper was not aiming at her arm specifically.

Also notice how incredibly efficient and precise Clone Troopers were reduced into running white targets aka StormTroopers. Movie laws again...

Also it is mentioned on that one page (sorry I forget the url) the "Indexed Trilogy" (which covers ANH screencaps and obscure differences between the SE and THX versions on video tape)....

http://index.echostation.com/ I believe.

that shots of Imperial Officers getting blasted in the chest (with visible "energy effects") were edited out of the SE version.

Yes, it's on that page (among others):
http://index.echostation.com/trilogy/intodeathstar.htm

So those would be more blaster effects. Obviously they're using squibs and that sort of thing to make "effects" and even stuff like sparks with explosions, so it might not be hyper-realistic. Greedo's blaster doesn't make a mark on the Cantina wall either...

True.

(And let me tell you, that is very cool page. It even has head-on blaster bolt screenshots )

AFAIK the only time we see the blood is when its on Han's hand(s) as he raises them when the Troopers tell him to freeze, etc.

Oh yeah, that red mark on Solo's thumb, yes? Well, it does have red color...

Good call and thanks for the links!

That's definately blood, it's smeared on his hands like movie blood, and he's holding a rag or cloth or something too I believe that he must have been trying to use to staunch her wound.

And I agree with the rest. ; )

The "dead on blasters" thing makes a good point about the stun shot we saw.