Not much ambiguity there. Ok, so my original point was on the mark. He clearly thought Kirk was alive and well, which is contradicted by Generations. I don't see a way to rationalize the two.
Simple...
----------------------
RIKER
(shocked, off console)
It's completely intact (Scott's pattern)... less
than point zero zero three
percent signal degradation. How
is that possible?
----------------------
That 0.003% degradation was his memory of the events of Generations
(or he was just a bit confused after a century stuck in a transporter loop)
You'd think that the death of one of your best friends and Captain of years, plus the events in general aboard the Enterprise-B would have made a more lasting impression than 1/3rd of 1/100th of a percent.
Maybe he spent that century convincing himself that Kirk was really alive? After all, he didn't see him die, so he could conclude that he was whisked away to a parallel dimension or...wait a minute! Maybe Mr. Scott is a genius and figured out what happened to Kirk!
MFS Angry Wookiee - PRFYNAFBTFC
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." -Richard Dawkins
It's an okay idea for a two-part TNG episode, if someone had bothered to patch up the gaping plotholes.
It's not a bad movie, it's just bland and full of wasted opportunity. There are a few good things about it - decent shots of the E-D, the crash, the scene where everyone's in 18th C uniforms - but overall it just feels too weak to be good.
Yes it is. The only parts worth watching are the maiden voyage of the E-B and the 18th century promotion scene. Valen, Insurrection was a better movie and it made no sense whatsoever!
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Yes it is. The only parts worth watching are the maiden voyage of the E-B and the 18th century promotion scene. Valen, Insurrection was a better movie and it made no sense whatsoever!
Again, I wouldnt say that Generations is a bad movie. IMO, if a movie has enough good bits in it, even if much of it is bad, then its isnt really bad. And Generations had good bits in it, and a good number.
This is the way I see it:
The Journey Home
TUC
TWoK
FC
Spock
TMP
Generations
Insurrection
TFF
Nemesis
To each his own I guess. And it's 'The Voyage Home'.
Sorry, but given that virtually the entire TNG part of ST:G was terrible, those few good parts don't save it. And the way they did Kirk in was a sacrilege.
That man deserved a hero's death. Like, y'know, if the would have let him die saving the E-B (ugliest Enterprise ever while we're at it).
Sure, it would have made the entire opening sequence with the E-B completely pointless but it would STILL have been better than the way they actually did it..
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Generations suffered badly from Rick Berman's laundry list of things that had to happen, including:
Must have Klingons
Kirk must die Enterprise-D must be destroyed
...and I think he also mandated that Data get emotions, but I'm not sure. I think there were other things as well.
Vicious wrote: Agree with all of them, but I can't believe you left out the Ent-D being destroyed by a fucking scout ship. Letting Geordi wander around the ship, much less go back to his job, right after being captured by the enemy was a monumental, your-ass-is-court-marshalled kind of mistake.
Oh, and Generations gave us the moronic "Our weapons are unstoppable if we know your shield frequency" brainbug. Unless that showed up one of the series? I can't recall it in TNG, but I haven't seen very much DS9.
Considering that in one tv episode Geordi had been programmed by the Romulans (via his visor/neural interface) to assassinate someone who was onboard the Enterprise, you'd think he'd be kept under observation for a while before turning him loose.
As far as the bird of prey trashing the Enterprise via the "shield frequency" thing, I guess I could see now some sort of argument could be made that a phaser beam could be adjusted to penetrate the shield....though I hate the idea it's sort of been established with the Borg...but I don't understand how a photon torpedo could be adjusted for a shield's frequency....it's a solid projectile. Unless the pretty spiky energy field surrounding the torpedo has something to do with it. I dunno.
Vicious wrote:
Not much ambiguity there. Ok, so my original point was on the mark. He clearly thought Kirk was alive and well, which is contradicted by Generations. I don't see a way to rationalize the two.
According to the ST Chronology Ron Moore basically admits its a continuity flub, but he wrote the Generations script with Scotty in it because he simply liked the character.
-A.L.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge
"If you're falling off a cliff you may as well try to fly, you've got nothing to lose." - John Sheridan (Babylon 5)
"Sometimes you got to roll the hard six." - William Adama (Battlestar Galactica)
Uraniun235 wrote:Err, I thought Scotty and Chekov were in because Nimoy and Kelley didn't want to be in the movie.
Originally the entire original cast was to be on the Enterprise-B but Spock dropped out because he felt that he wasn't given enough time in the script and that the lines he had been given could be read by anyone. Sulu dropped out because they had him at the helm of the Enterprise-B instead of commanding the Excelsior. When they dropped out then so did Uhura and McCoy which left Scotty and Chekov as the only ones besides Kirk who were willing to be there.
I was first exposed to TNG, so I'll always prefer that cast. I've never even seen any TOS episodes and never really liked that cast, even in the movies. My favorite cast and series is actually DS9. Star Trek suffers from each episode/movie being made in a vacuum, ignoring all other episodes. This was something they did on purpose, which makes the whole universe fall apart pretty easily. DS9 is the only series that uses continuous storylines and therefore seems a bit more plausible. Plus the characters are the most well developed. But the way they ended that series means a DS9 movie is pretty much impossible. I think it's safe to say the franchise has fizzled out and can only be redeemed with a major revamp.
Here's my list:
The Journey Home (it just works and is fun to watch)
Insurrection ( I liked the character development and feel of the movie)
First Contact
Generations ( nothing more then a tv movie for the big screen)
Nemesis
Wrath of Khan
The Motion Picture (for some weird reason, it works for me)
The Search for Spock
ST 6
ST 5
I know it's silly to criticize opinions, but you really place Nemesis above the better TOS movies simply because it has the TNG cast in it? What about all the character assassination in the movie, like Picard's crazy thrill for driving the buggy? Is Khan really worse than Shinzon simply because he's not a TNG figure?
"Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me...God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist." -- Academician Prokhor Zakharov
"Hal grabs life by the balls and doesn't let you do that [to] hal."
"I hereby declare myself master of the known world."
MindTwist wrote:Here's my list:
The Journey Home (it just works and is fun to watch)
Insurrection ( I liked the character development and feel of the movie)
First Contact
Generations ( nothing more then a tv movie for the big screen)
Nemesis
Wrath of Khan
The Motion Picture (for some weird reason, it works for me)
The Search for Spock
ST 6
ST 5
Anyone who puts all of the TNG movies above ST2 and ST6 is on drugs, or simply has an incredible tolerance for shitty writing.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Agreed. It came right Between two really good Star Trek Movies. It certainly was weakest compared to those two. Enter in the TNG films and I'd call STV a masterpiece. There, I said it! ALL TNG films do in fact suck.
Yes, First Contact and even Generations are teh SUxxoRS!
I wont argue with Nemesis and Insurrection though.
WHAT?!? So I don't like any of the TNG Films? What's it to you?!? I can give you a laundry list of what I really disliked about First Contact and Generations. I think i even posted it some time back.
Stupid risks are what make life worth living.-Homer Simpson
-PC Load Letter?! What the Fuck does that mean!?!?!- Micheal Bolton
-Bullshit! I'll bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose! - Sgt. Hartman
-I'll bet your the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the Goddamn common courtesy to give him a reacharound!- Sgt. Hartman
Darth Wong wrote:ST5 might have redeemed its inability to emotionally grab the audience if it presented something truly spectacular when we finally get to see "God". But that was the biggest problem with the movie; all of that buildup and anticipation ... for a villain that would barely rate a regular TV episode. They beat him with a goddamned photon torpedo, for fuck's sake.
That was the big Gripe with me. The Movie just became anti-Climactic. Granted there were some considerable flaws in the plot. It worked for the most part. Personally, I would have liked to see them actually talk to God in a sort of comical take. (Like Dogma i.e. The Metatron)
As bad as ST5 was, you gotta admit, McCoy's line of "you don't ask the almighty for his ID" was quite amusing.
It was. Granted I don't have a strong dislike for V, but there was soo much more they could have done with that premise.
Stupid risks are what make life worth living.-Homer Simpson
-PC Load Letter?! What the Fuck does that mean!?!?!- Micheal Bolton
-Bullshit! I'll bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose! - Sgt. Hartman
-I'll bet your the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the Goddamn common courtesy to give him a reacharound!- Sgt. Hartman
WHAT?!? So I don't like any of the TNG Films? What's it to you?!? I can give you a laundry list of what I really disliked about First Contact and Generations. I think i even posted it some time back.
You made a blanket statement without providing any evidence in the post (I'm sure you have it, but it wasnt there in the OP.) I was fully justified to respond to your post in kind, unless of course your opinion is so significant that is beyond my ability, the lowly worm that I am, to question it.
You have your opinions, and I have mine. If they are discordant, then we both have the option to argue our sides, even if its just to more fully explain a point of view. Don't get so touchy about it.
WHAT?!? So I don't like any of the TNG Films? What's it to you?!? I can give you a laundry list of what I really disliked about First Contact and Generations. I think i even posted it some time back.
You made a blanket statement without providing any evidence in the post (I'm sure you have it, but it wasnt there in the OP.) I was fully justified to respond to your post in kind, unless of course your opinion is so significant that is beyond my ability, the lowly worm that I am, to question it.
I made an offhand comment which showed my dislike for the TNG films. Nothing more. I don't see why I have to show any evidence for my opinion. If you want a reasoning for it them fine
You have your opinions, and I have mine. If they are discordant, then we both have the option to argue our sides, even if its just to more fully explain a point of view. Don't get so touchy about it.
Okay then, I'll apologize for my snapping at you. Oh!! here's my OLD post that I had displaying my dislike of the beloved FC. All in all it was a decent Action/Sci-Fi flick, with some good characterizations of Picard and Data (my fave TNG character). I disliked The way the Borg were portrayed, I hated the setting, the characterization of Zephraim Cochrane, and the way the time Travel aspect was written.
I'll have a more definative list of what I hated abotu FC and the THG films as a whole tommorow.
Stupid risks are what make life worth living.-Homer Simpson
-PC Load Letter?! What the Fuck does that mean!?!?!- Micheal Bolton
-Bullshit! I'll bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose! - Sgt. Hartman
-I'll bet your the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the Goddamn common courtesy to give him a reacharound!- Sgt. Hartman
