StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Excellent chapter, Stuart. I particularly enjoyed Michael-Lan's scheming, as usual.

I've had word from our political masters at Yamantau. Once any Angelic invasion of Earth has been defeated, we go straight to an invasion of Heaven. For that assault, nuclear weapons are free. Once we're in Heaven, I can order them used at my discretion."

That's because of the war mobilization burden, right?

Surely it is only fitting that Your Only Son as Your Unbelievable Representative should lead them in the triumphant march that ends this war." Sorry, Jesus, you're a nice guy and all that but one never, ever kills the father and leaves the son alive. I can't kill you but the humans can.

I wonder how smart Jesus is. If he's anything half-intelligent, then he probably would realize that Michael-Lan has basically signed his death warrant, and he'd possibly flee.

In fact, thinking about it, that might work out for him. If he were to run to humanity, help the humans into Heaven, and so forth, he might do very well after the War on Heaven ends.

His complex scheme was coming to its climax. Now, everything depended on Lemuel and Maion.

Heh. I do wonder if Lemuel is going to screw things up somehow - it wouldn't be the first time that Michael-Lan screwed up.

I dunno. JC the Hippy doesn't really come off as a good person to lead an army. He'd just march to White Castle or Amsterdam... or Vancouver.

Yes, I too love the fact that Yahweh's court are ALL dickstabbing bastards out to fuck each other up. I wonder if they're ALL thinking just like Micheal-Lan. And I wonder what tricks they've got up their sleeves.

One minor complaint I've got is that we NEVER see how the angels concoct their portal-attacks. We saw how the demons did theirs, we saw it in intricate detail, but the angels... all we see are the results. We don't see any of the preparation or the process at all, no choirs of angelic naga or whatever. Which is kinda sad.


Hey, guys. Imagine the shitfit the internet will raise when Stuart writes Jesus leading the army of Heaven and getting shot in the face and killed. Jesus. Can you imagine the uproar and furor? Christ!

Have the Vatican brigade kill him, for added irony. Hell, have a Muslim division kill him - just after the Iranian's Army Imam declares him a False Prophet and excises him from the Koran.

i doubt that there would be any tiger 1 tanks in germany in service, simply as far as i know, there is only one working one and that is in england, and i seem to remember reading that they were temperamental anyway. we english would probably keep it as a point of pride as well

i would have thought that most old units that were considered too old for the front lines but still working would end up in the local Home guard. even if they were originally from another country. it wouldnt be worth the cost to transport them elsewhere. aircraft would be the possible exception to this though, as they can fly anywhere.

good point about the rebelling levies. to most people, humans and angels, Yah-yahs rule is torture of constant singing, worship and the like. but then there is the point that it might be best to get rid of the most fanatic loyalists in all of heaven in that one army. let them get massacred all at once. that way, when Humans do invade, angels and humans alike can line the streets and cheer them on. that would prove to end the war quickly, and let the angels survive.

i doubt that Lemuel is going to screw up that badly. and if Michael was smart, then he would at least have a backup plan. relying on a fanatic whom you have attempted to get addicted to drugs, and a girl you have blackmailed into prostitution? not a good idea. both of them could turn against you for revenge.

Jesus probably would be smart to run, but is he? i have seen it suggested before he is leading a conspiracy. looking at how Byzantine the politics of heaven is, i would say that yes, he most certainly does, or is involved in several. Hell, i wouldnt be surprised is everyone is plotting against everyone else for their own aims.

angels seem to be able to all use portals, or something like that perhaps. so it would make sense that we dont see them. its probably something mundane or something like that.

I really do like the idea of the Papal Divisions. Nice touch, Stu.
I see Michael is doing his best to save as many angels as he can when the HEA arrives. We'll need to wait and see if that works in the end.

Thank you Yah-yah, that's the key piece I needed. You are now on record as having ordered what happens to the inmates of Belial's concentration camp. And when the humans find it, all the Angels in Heaven will be seen as your victims.

"I do, we're close to the end of the Bowls of Wrath and that's the softening up process. I expect us to be hit by an Angelic Host shortly afterwards. Wherever they land, we'll portal in around them. My preferred plan is to open up three portals and put an Army Group through each. There are many variations to that of course but the basis of them all is that we go for the big kill again. And one thing has been made clear. I've had word from our political masters at Yamantau. Once any Angelic invasion of Earth has been defeated, we go straight to an invasion of Heaven. For that assault, nuclear weapons are free. Once we're in Heaven, I can order them used at my discretion."

Michael, Michael, Michael... You are not as smart as you think you are.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Yes, I too love the fact that Yahweh's court are ALL dickstabbing bastards out to fuck each other up. I wonder if they're ALL thinking just like Micheal-Lan. And I wonder what tricks they've got up their sleeves.

Are they, though, or were tortured prisoners just coming up with names to save themselves? Again, Michael may not be as smart as he thinks he is.

Are we ever going to figure out exactly who commandeered that submarine?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Yes, I too love the fact that Yahweh's court are ALL dickstabbing bastards out to fuck each other up. I wonder if they're ALL thinking just like Micheal-Lan. And I wonder what tricks they've got up their sleeves.

One minor complaint I've got is that we NEVER see how the angels concoct their portal-attacks. We saw how the demons did theirs, we saw it in intricate detail, but the angels... all we see are the results. We don't see any of the preparation or the process at all, no choirs of angelic naga or whatever. Which is kinda sad.

Agreed. I'd like to see at least a one-off inserted here if possible. Of course, if there's a good reason not to have it, I also fully understand.

Hey, guys. Imagine the shitfit the internet will raise when Stuart writes Jesus leading the army of Heaven and getting shot in the face and killed. Jesus. Can you imagine the uproar and furor? Christ!

Nice choice of phrase;) More seriously, though, I do want some popcorn when this hits. We may even need to do something to ensure that the thread doesn't get trolled...it hasn't been a problem here to date (at least that I can tell), but this is the sort of thing that'll bring the nuts out.

Stuart wrote:"What's the cargo Sergeant?" Amy Seinfeld was a little nervous about asking the question. Not because of any security implications but from the fact that her Sergeant was Gerry Links, one of the heroes of the Tenth Mountain Division that had fought the daemons hand-to-hand at Hit. He'd been a private then, was a Sergeant now and was viewed with quiet awe by the rest of his unit.

[refers back to Battle of Hit]
Whoa. He did, he really did.

"Could be Tokyo. One of the original Heralds was killed there so that would fit."

"Tokyo sounds possible, I suppose New York and San Francisco are as well. And New Orleans. Michael, please get the staff to put a list of possible targets together and make up plans for relief efforts. If Yahweh does dump rocks on cities, it could be every bit as bad as Belial's lava attacks. More so, the lava poured over a single point and spread from there. A rock attack could cover a wide area. O'Shea, give General Jackson all the help you can.

New Orleans? Aren't they on sediment the same way Bangkok is? Cracked levees would be a problem, I suppose.

There was a subtle intake of breath around the table. "Other weapons of mass destruction?" Jackson sounded awed by the clearance.

"Them too. Chemical, biological, you name it. All weapons are free, we can use them as we deem fit. Our primary responsibility is to reduce human casualties to a minimum."

Biologicals... are liable to backfire, no? Would there really be a point in using them? You want something that kills fast, that your own troops can't catch from walking through the area a month later.

And, come to think of it, you want something that won't be reliably fended off by a supercharged immune system. If angels were all that vulnerable to any earthly disease they probably wouldn't be regarded as immortal; disease is a big enough killer to cut the life expectancy down from "infinity" down to more like a few hundred years, I'd think.

"Thank you David. That'll will be. . . . interesting." Jackson paused for a second. "What about the Papal Divisions?"

"They're with us, again they're really light mechanized brigades and I plan to use them as Army HQ reserve units." Petraeus sighed. "You know, I am never going to get used to having an Archbishop as a brigade commander."

So, as GrayAnderson put it... how many divisions has the Pope?

Then, he was approaching the Immaculate Throne and he prostrated himself before The One Above All, kissing the jade floor with his scarred lips.

Remind me again when he got hit in the mouth? I didn't think anyone had managed to hit him in the head during his dash to medevac Uriel, and nobody so much as touched him in the "return nuke to sender" incident in Burma. Or did they?

w34v0r wrote:I dunno. JC the Hippy doesn't really come off as a good person to lead an army. He'd just march to White Castle or Amsterdam... or Vancouver.

Or just up and surrender.

Morilore wrote: Michael, Michael, Michael... You are not as smart as you think you are.

And what, pray tell, would he be doing if he was as smart as he thinks he is?

Chemical and nuclear weapons I can understand, but biological? What kind of biological weapons do have that would affect angels, but aren't going to be a problem for us?

It would be a tragic end if, after invading heaven, humanity gets wiped out by one of our own plagues. xD

Michael, Michael, Michael... You are not as smart as you think you are.

depends what he plans. if he gets a coup through during the attack on earth, and then sues for terms, then he would win theoretically. he simply points to the camp and says "look! he was mistreating us as well. we're not the bad guys, he is! lets all live happily ever after together". the attack on earth, of course, will wipe out the most loyal elements of Yah-weh, and Michael is obviously planning a coup somewhere along the lines, but its a matter of timing to how well it will go.

he has to time it so that he will not have much opposition from loyalists, but also from the HEA.
he also has to time it so that he would have support for the coup from both the angels and HEA.

overall, his plan is actually pretty good in my eyes. it simply is to save the angels as a race, with him in charge when the dust settles. i think that the aim of him becoming leader has been his for a few centuries now, but the idea of being the savior has to be new. actually, if he asks for help from the HEA in overthrowing Yah-weh, he could score a few points.

in fact, his plan seems to be a bit like what the german's did after WW2; they blamed everything on Hitler where they could. the point is that Hitler himself didnt actually do much at all. his leadership style was to give vague aims in rambling speeches, and then people below him worked towards those aims. yet everyone knows that Hitler ordered the extermination of the jews, despite there being no written evidence that he actually did. actually, thinking about it, this seems to be the plan of the demons in Hell as well, since they are blaming everything on Satan, while no doubt conveniently ignoring that they themselves were doing it just as much.

of course, in both of these cases, the leadership structure most definitely not survive intact. but then, thats because they actually succeeded in invading. if Michael can take command before an outright invasion, then surrender or sue for peace, on the grounds that it was Yah-weh who did it all, he just might scrape through. better than being executed for war crimes in the other cases. if he doesnt get command, so what? with his club, and drug ring, he will be one of the major powers of the new power structure in any case. unless it is an occupation force, in which he would be able to run a resistance group and be popular with the angels when he wins.

remember, Michael understands humans to an extent, so he would know all about Vietnam, and the tactics that could win in a war with less than advanced technology.

in fact, thinking about it, the only way he could actually lose would be for the humans to kill him. if he doesnt end up in charge, and the humans occupy Heaven, then he simply slips away, and leads a resistance group against them. the most heavily armed resistance group at that, since he is the one who has most likely got stockpiles of modern weapons hidden away somewhere in the city. the humans institute an angel run government? he would shout puppet government and lead the resistance group again.

all he has to do is avoid the humans long enough to slip away, and then he is set. its practically all one big Xanatos Gambit for him. if he survives Pantheocide, and doesnt end up in charge, as i suspect, i expect him to become the main villain against the humans. and since he can simply portal out (based on what we have seen from Uriel) when things get too hot, then it will be pretty hard to catch him. if they set up a portal detection system in heaven? then there is plenty of open space in hell where no one lives, so logically, there is plenty in heaven as well. if not, then hell would do, or even earth. it doesnt take much time to portal. he has the ultimate way of fighting a guerilla war there. portal in, lob a grenade into the surprised crowd, then portal out. BANG. dead crowd.

actually, that goes both ways, as the army/police could do the same. but a simple open the portal, lob a grenade, close portal, would be securities worst nightmare. but, the security could track the portal, and do the same. as soon as you have lobbed the bomb, you have to get out of that location through another portal, or else the security would be attacking you. it would be a fight all about speed.

and now i have rambled on quite enough i think.

i called everyone plotting ages ago. I always felt that was the right answer.

You bring up some good points thegreatpl. A war fought like that, with quick portals coming and going, would be brutal. You'd have to be insanely careful, as I'm sure portal tracking technology will only get better.

I see more ways that Mikey can lose. He's sending one of his 'friends' out to the enemy. All JC has to do is spill the beans about what Mike's been running and there's no way he'll get out of this without some kind of punishment.
He's banking on alot of people getting killed, but all it takes is one to survive and snitch. It's not quite as foolproof as he thinks.

I'd love to see Mikey make it through, he's too awesome a character, and hilarious to boot.

after what he did to maion i want him to get some sort of karmic kick in the balls.

The Vietnam war was fought against people with, if not equivalent, at least comparable weaponry. America also wasn't willing to carpet-bomb them with nukes, or indiscriminately wipe out their civilian population.

Not one of those is the case in the war against angels. The only thing that would stop them from carpet-nuking heaven is the human slaves, and nothing's stopping them from indiscriminately killing everyone with wings except a lack of will, which will arise in a hurry if the angels start a guerilla war.

Moreover, given sufficient experimental subjects it would probably only take a few years to create a targeted bio-weapon that only kills the angels. Starting a guerilla war might sound like a good idea now, and it might even be possible to stretch it out for a few years, but it's racial suicide in the long run.

thegreatpl wrote:depends what he plans. if he gets a coup through during the attack on earth, and then sues for terms,

Stop right there. There isn't going to be a "during" the attack on Earth, remember? The instant the angelic host sets foot on Earth soil the entire military force of the human race is planning to portal in directly on top of them, splat them against the windshield, and move into Heaven where it's nukes free. Michael could possibly screw this up by sending the army on a circuitous route through Hell, but remember all that talk about how it's hard to portal directly from Heaven to Hell?

yet everyone knows that Hitler ordered the extermination of the jews, despite there being no written evidence that he actually did.

w34v0r wrote:I'd love to see Mikey make it through, he's too awesome a character, and hilarious to boot.

Michael-Lan-Michael is an arrogant racist manipulative asshole. He's a decent villain, but he's no one to cheer for. If he had is way all humans would be slaves (remember?) and he's only not pursuing that because he's smart enough to realize that it's impossible. He sees nothing wrong with fucking up the lives of people under him for fun and profit.

w34v0r wrote:You bring up some good points thegreatpl. A war fought like that, with quick portals coming and going, would be brutal. You'd have to be insanely careful, as I'm sure portal tracking technology will only get better.

I see more ways that Mikey can lose. He's sending one of his 'friends' out to the enemy. All JC has to do is spill the beans about what Mike's been running and there's no way he'll get out of this without some kind of punishment.
He's banking on alot of people getting killed, but all it takes is one to survive and snitch. It's not quite as foolproof as he thinks.

I'd love to see Mikey make it through, he's too awesome a character, and hilarious to boot.

Well, as far as I can tell, he's only sending one of them out (a handful is also possible), who he's specifically expecting to get rid of. The rest are more of simply losing large numbers of angels to thin out the opposition; which ones survive (and I'm assuming that Michael isn't foolish enough to bet on a 100% killed/captured rate) are mostly irrelevant.

The other thing is this: Michael counseled against the actions against humanity. He's a dirtball, yes, but he does have a reasonable defense that he didn't call for this war and that to refuse to carry it out would probably have resulted in his death if he was lucky. I think he might be able to spin his way out of most of the trouble he'd be in.

And I do agree with you: I want Michael to get through as well. His "thought bubble" comments are too funny.

Baughn wrote:Chemical and nuclear weapons I can understand, but biological? What kind of biological weapons do have that would affect angels, but aren't going to be a problem for us?

It would be a tragic end if, after invading heaven, humanity gets wiped out by one of our own plagues. xD

I think the point being made was that the gloves are definately off. Chemical and biological are problematic issues so my guess is that if in doubt, it'll be nukes, air strikes and massive artillery fire.

Baughn wrote:The Vietnam war was fought against people with, if not equivalent, at least comparable weaponry. America also wasn't willing to carpet-bomb them with nukes, or indiscriminately wipe out their civilian population.

Not one of those is the case in the war against angels. The only thing that would stop them from carpet-nuking heaven is the human slaves, and nothing's stopping them from indiscriminately killing everyone with wings except a lack of will, which will arise in a hurry if the angels start a guerilla war.

Moreover, given sufficient experimental subjects it would probably only take a few years to create a targeted bio-weapon that only kills the angels. Starting a guerilla war might sound like a good idea now, and it might even be possible to stretch it out for a few years, but it's racial suicide in the long run.

Michael would also know about WW2 etc and perhaps heard the now outdated phrase: "shoot them all and let god decide". ie, any angel is presumed a mortal enemy unless proved otherwise to a pissed off human with an itchy trigger finger.

thegreatpl wrote:actually, thinking about it, this seems to be the plan of the demons in Hell as well, since they are blaming everything on Satan, while no doubt conveniently ignoring that they themselves were doing it just as much.

This.

I've never quite gotten how we're supposed to be angrier at Heaven than Hell in this scenario. I mean, the denizens of Heaven basically said "We don't like you and we won't let you in because you're not obedient-minded enough; go to Hell." Which is completely asinine, yes.

But on the other hand, the denizens of Hell spent all that time gleefully torturing every human being they could get their hands on, literally eating babies, that sort of thing. Yes, they were beaten down, but it's not like they showed any reluctance to deal even worse torment to the dead in their charge than their overlords dealt to them. The only thing you can say for them is, in the sergeant's words, that "they never pretended to be anything other than our enemies."

To me, that is not nearly good enough. And even so, if the demons can make a credible show of not being the embodiment of evil, I'm not for killing off the lot of them.

So why should I be for doing so in the case of the angels, whose real crime amounts to "they didn't stop the demons from doing it?" I can hardly be for punishing an accessory to a crime more harshly than the criminal himself... can I?

Darth Yan wrote:after what he did to maion i want him to get some sort of karmic kick in the balls.

Me too, Yan, me too.

Morilore wrote:Stop right there. There isn't going to be a "during" the attack on Earth, remember? The instant the angelic host sets foot on Earth soil the entire military force of the human race is planning to portal in directly on top of them, splat them against the windshield, and move into Heaven where it's nukes free.

Unless the HEA is throwing hydrogen bombs around on Earthly territory- territory that could be anywhere- that angelic army will take a deal of killing. Even with the best portalling equipment in the multiverse, it will take time to get that much firepower into position, and more time to annihilate legions of beings with superhuman durability and personal firepower that can swat subsonic aircraft out of the sky. Hours, I'd guess. Enough time to stage a coup, if he's prepared.

yet everyone knows that Hitler ordered the extermination of the jews, despite there being no written evidence that he actually did.

Oh, there's plenty of evidence he ordered it and he surely did, no mistake. But it's interesting that no one except the neo-Nazis even wondered if he was the prime mover. No one really wants to even entertain the possibility that he wasn't, that the rest of the Germans took his ghastly ideas and ran with them, not just obeying or complying but supporting him.

And there's a reason for that. The alternative, the idea that Hitler wasn't the only thing really wrong with the Germans, is a lot worse. And it would have been damned hard to normalize relations with the Germans ever again if that alternative were really accepted.

So we say "Wow, Hitler didn't do monstrosity by halves, did he?" and give the German people a free pass. At least, something like a free pass when you consider the sheer magnitude of what they did and how many people they did it to. Because to be honest, if we'd told ourselves that the Germans as a whole were to blame for all that happened in Europe during the war, that would demand a response. And the natural response would be to go so berserk with vengeance that... well, most people wouldn't want to think too hard about it. The Morgenthau Plan would have been just the start. And it would be hard to call ourselves civilized afterwards with a straight face, I think.

From the way Stuart is pitching it, it sounds like we are prepared to go that berserk in the war on Heaven. The thought of it... rattles me. Of course, I'm not a nuclear war planner.

Darth Yan wrote:after what he did to maion i want him to get some sort of karmic kick in the balls.

I won't argue that Michael isn't exactly the nicest person on the block, but he has the big picture in mind.
He's trying to save Heaven, and his own race. He knows they have zero chance of surviving if war were to come knocking.

If he was just trying to save his own ass, he'd just surrender, give the Humans the key to Heaven, and retire in Vegas. You could see it as a power grab, but I doubt he'd have much power even being in charge of Heaven, since I'm sure the Humans would just make it a puppet state like Abigor's Hell is now.

I find it funny that the Humans are willing to use NBC in a fortress that seems to have a fair amount of humans in it. They seemed to care an awful lot about them while fighting in Hell. I guess having a roof over your head, some food in your stomach, and not being beaten daily makes it all okay.

ps - Is it me or have the Humans never really been given a serious defeat? The worst thing about the invasion of Hell was the logistics, and while the Angels have a better bodycount, it isn't very impressive. There's been no real destructive attack that's, IMHO, brought any sense of danger to the human side. (OH NOES THE NIÑO) Maybe in the third book they open a gate to R'lyeh and things actually get serious.

R'lyeh opens a gate to them, more likely.

It hasn't been shown, and I suspect that with Yahweh about to get pwned nobody will be able to tell them, but it seems entirely obvious to me that the angels/demons are the product of advanced genetic engineering. Nothing else comes even close to explaining their abilities, and evolution certainly wouldn't.

Which means.. yeah, the engineers are out there. Probably. I'd like some kind of definitive word from Stuart on that, but it really would surprise me if there isn't a more serious enemy lurking in the background.

Simon_Jester wrote:From the way Stuart is pitching it, it sounds like we are prepared to go that berserk in the war on Heaven. The thought of it... rattles me. Of course, I'm not a nuclear war planner.

Stuart did say that Pantheocide was supposed to be the antipode to Armageddon. In Armageddon, Humans attacked Hell, and came out looking like the good guys. They were kind to their prisoners and seemed to care about everyone involved (after they were done blowing the crap out of them). Maybe now we'll see the darker side of humanity unleashed on Heaven?

Maybe the old saying that humanity is more compassionate than an angel and more cruel than a demon is going to be played out?

Simon_Jester wrote:yet everyone knows that Hitler ordered the extermination of the jews, despite there being no written evidence that he actually did.

Oh, there's plenty of evidence he ordered it and he surely did, no mistake. But it's interesting that no one except the neo-Nazis even wondered if he was the prime mover. No one really wants to even entertain the possibility that he wasn't, that the rest of the Germans took his ghastly ideas and ran with them, not just obeying or complying but supporting him.

And there's a reason for that. The alternative, the idea that Hitler wasn't the only thing really wrong with the Germans, is a lot worse. And it would have been damned hard to normalize relations with the Germans ever again if that alternative were really accepted.

So we say "Wow, Hitler didn't do monstrosity by halves, did he?" and give the German people a free pass. At least, something like a free pass when you consider the sheer magnitude of what they did and how many people they did it to. Because to be honest, if we'd told ourselves that the Germans as a whole were to blame for all that happened in Europe during the war, that would demand a response. And the natural response would be to go so berserk with vengeance that... well, most people wouldn't want to think too hard about it. The Morgenthau Plan would have been just the start. And it would be hard to call ourselves civilized afterwards with a straight face, I think.

From the way Stuart is pitching it, it sounds like we are prepared to go that berserk in the war on Heaven. The thought of it... rattles me. Of course, I'm not a nuclear war planner.

To be fair, the thinking generally seems to go "Hitler and a group at the top planned this" (not to mention that such logic isn't the only thing not examined outside of the neo-Nazi/denier community)...but then again, there also seems to be a limited distribution of blame among some of the other high-ranking demons (though most of the guilty parties are themselves out of the picture). Those that survived were in a good position to pass plenty of blame all around, as enough of the upper echelons had been, if I recall right, gutted.

One other thing: I know the "shoot them all and let the HEA sort them out" approach has been used in a military context, and there it can make sense. I'm wondering if any police forces have tried it, and how that's worked out (my guess, of course, being a messy lawsuit, albeit on uncertain grounds).

Edit: Fixed a missing quote box.
Edit2: Or two...

I believe the idea is that the demons faced us fair and square; we shot them, shot them again, then shot some more, and after killing a whole bunch of them it turned out we'd won so all was well (in fact we apparently felt sort of bad about how easy it was). The angels on the other hand however are sitting behind their castle walls pulling all kinds of annoying tricks, making a nuisance of themselves, and generally irritating the hell out of the humans -- and as a result, when the castle gate is finally left open, the humans aren't going to bother with conventional weapons but will head straight for to the heavy duty ass-busters to make up for lost time. The message then seems to be that if you're inevitably going to lose anyway, you're just plain better off losing in a straight up and somewhat honourable fight, rather than drawing things out and unduly pissing off the guy who's going to give you a right clobbering sooner or later.

Siege wrote:The message then seems to be that if you're inevitably going to lose anyway, you're just plain better off losing in a straight up and somewhat honourable fight, rather than drawing things out and unduly pissing off the guy who's going to give you a right clobbering sooner or later.

Turn the board over on that. Say it was the last Humans walled up against the Angels, would they just open the gates and get mowed down like wheat, or would they try to hold out as long as possible?
But this entire point is moot since it's Yah-Yah we're dealing with.... he would be dumb enough to open the gates and charge.