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Shroom Man 777 wrote:Those humans probably volunteered to be maimed anyway. Like men getting circumcisions.

Um...no,they didn't seem to. It's SinTek running those experiments, after all.

Uh? So they just grab random hobos from the street and turn them into abominations against nature? Or put criminal brains inside robot bodies, like in ROBOCOP 2?

I really think they'd use volunteers. At least, convince them with money to be mutilated. It's more hypercapitalistic that way.

Actually, it would be more hypercapitalist if they paid other people to go and find them test subjects in whatever way the could. Some could pay their recruits, some could knock them over the head, some could bribe prison officials...Free market for the win!

I can't say anything about Siege's stuff, but I'm using volunteers.

Also: I thought Japanistan already had nukes, or am I remembering things wrong.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Also, geographical correction for Steve: Considering the way Messica's borders are drawn on the world map, all of California south of San Luis Obispo and Bakersfield would actually be part of Wilkonia.

LA is very much indeed a part of my nation (if you'll recall, way back at the beginning of the game one of my frigates got hit by a mine outside of the LA harbor, which holds the LA naval base). If the line isn't exactly where it should have been IRL, it was supposed to be, and we can just assume that I have an LA even if it's not at the RL location of LA. Because I'm not an expert mapmaker.

Also, on the Japanistan front, Steve had an evil idea, and I've been mulling it over and thinking up a few things, so I'll talk with him and we'll see what happens. It'll be centered around the summit and that's all I'm saying for now.

So on the whole Byzantium thing, fuck it. Rufus Shinra had an off day and shit went bad when Heraclius stormed out on him (which sorta happened, because I would have corrected my error if I had the chance, but alas I did not before events moved on). He had the Shroom visit, and then Heraclius shows up with Shady tagging along and he had to do that, plus preparing for the upcoming CATO-MESS Summit...dude fucked up. It happens, especially in those private moments where you don't have twenty handlers making sure you don't fuck up that bad. I'm only human, after all.

DarthShady wrote:I can't say anything about Siege's stuff, but I'm using volunteers.

Also: I thought Japanistan already had nukes, or am I remembering things wrong.

Still has BioWeapons. Lots of 'em.

Lonestar wrote: Still has BioWeapons. Lots of 'em.

Yeah, Japanistan never signed the BIOCOM agreement.

Darth Coyotus wrote:Greetings!

Please allow for me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste... and an authorized sockpuppet account of Coyote.

Over at SB.com I participate in STGODS where I have a "Coyote" and a "Darth Coyotus" account so that I may post 'good guy' plots and 'bad guy' plots without confusion. When you see Darth Coyotus, you know I'm up to no good and posting on behalf of terrorists, Japanistan, the RUF, and other mustache-twirling villains.

I will play the bad guys as truly motivated to spread evil, as if my good guys were an adversary.

I asked Darth Wong for permission for this account, and he granted it. A few stipulations apply-- I never use this account outside of the STGODS forum, and I'll put something in my Sig that will always identify this as a sockpuppet.

Anyhow, that's the introduction for my evil account, let the games continue!

looks like I just picked the wrong time to cozy up to Japanistan .

In all seriousness though I applaud this move as long as Japanistan and the other factions act in a rational fashion given their world views.

I s'pose I should have the IRT working with Japanistan more closely again

Darth Coyotus wrote:The super-heavy Tank O'Doom will still be around, and the fundamental history will stay the same. But Japanistan has been quiet and reclusive for years now, time enough to explain that some new equipment has been fielded, some alterations in government policy, etc. I can never run a plotline the way Sea Skimmer did and it would be folly for me to try, but a good, built-up launch pad for evil will still provide us with good plot fodder.

Hmm.. Maybe I should really move along with that super heavy artillery piece a la Crusader with some extra tweaks. I remember Skimmer intended to have that tank be a platform to fire off nukes.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:In that case, it's time to rip out the systems and replace them with S-500F. I have been listing a number of things that would be done in the event that this eventuality should come to pass.

Sorry to pull this from a few pages back but just getting back into things:

Switching from SM-4 to S-500F isn't really the problem inasmuch as the cell design for the VLS is such that you could literally just pull the whole damn thing out, fabricate an adapter and drop a compeltely new VLS system in palce. The problem comes with the combat management system, you would have to rite a new program to do command and control without a copy of the master code so you would just about have to reverse engingeer the entire damn code, then figure out how to interface your S-500s with the existing system...OR you would have to rip the CIC and radar systems out of all the ships and start from scratch in terms of combat management so that's probably a 1 yr+ cycle getting your ships through the drydock. Honestly I think you are just better off paying for the slightly less discounted SM-4 rates and stocking your ships without paying a could hundred mil to refurbish them.

CmdrWilkens wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:In that case, it's time to rip out the systems and replace them with S-500F. I have been listing a number of things that would be done in the event that this eventuality should come to pass.

Sorry to pull this from a few pages back but just getting back into things:

Switching from SM-4 to S-500F isn't really the problem inasmuch as the cell design for the VLS is such that you could literally just pull the whole damn thing out, fabricate an adapter and drop a compeltely new VLS system in palce. The problem comes with the combat management system, you would have to rite a new program to do command and control without a copy of the master code so you would just about have to reverse engingeer the entire damn code, then figure out how to interface your S-500s with the existing system...OR you would have to rip the CIC and radar systems out of all the ships and start from scratch in terms of combat management so that's probably a 1 yr+ cycle getting your ships through the drydock. Honestly I think you are just better off paying for the slightly less discounted SM-4 rates and stocking your ships without paying a could hundred mil to refurbish them.

I had also planned to rip out the missiles along with it. There were provisions made just so that it was possible to remove the entire unit of VLS and replace it with the VLS I had intended to use with the other ships with S-500F. The ships all use a common hull platform with swappable modules, excepting those with angled VLS systems.

But yes, it will be expensive. But after what happened in Old Dominion, you will understand that I will be more comfortable with my own systems rather than using something else.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
But yes, it will be expensive. But after what happened in Old Dominion, you will understand that I will be more comfortable with my own systems rather than using something else.

What happened in the Old Dominion?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote:Sorry to pull this from a few pages back but just getting back into things:

Switching from SM-4 to S-500F isn't really the problem inasmuch as the cell design for the VLS is such that you could literally just pull the whole damn thing out, fabricate an adapter and drop a compeltely new VLS system in palce. The problem comes with the combat management system, you would have to rite a new program to do command and control without a copy of the master code so you would just about have to reverse engingeer the entire damn code, then figure out how to interface your S-500s with the existing system...OR you would have to rip the CIC and radar systems out of all the ships and start from scratch in terms of combat management so that's probably a 1 yr+ cycle getting your ships through the drydock. Honestly I think you are just better off paying for the slightly less discounted SM-4 rates and stocking your ships without paying a could hundred mil to refurbish them.

I had also planned to rip out the missiles along with it. There were provisions made just so that it was possible to remove the entire unit of VLS and replace it with the VLS I had intended to use with the other ships with S-500F. The ships all use a common hull platform with swappable modules, excepting those with angled VLS systems.

But yes, it will be expensive. But after what happened in Old Dominion, you will understand that I will be more comfortable with my own systems rather than using something else.

I can understand but, as I sorta missed how the tone of the conversation turned to something drastically different than we intended, I still would hold that you haven't goten the short stick from Wilkonia nor had to short stick us mostly because the only military personnel who were serving either have associations to space launch programs or to consulates which makes them diplomats above soldiers.

So anyway IG you have reason to be pissed at the whole of the MESS, OOC I think this was, and Rogue did hit it, one where tone led to public pronouncements from which one could not then back down even when the talks themselves were held as a private discourse. That said I would also hold that IC sometime around when you have to rpesent your next military budget for approval somebody is going to stop and question spending billions for refurb to ships less than a half decade old when we could spend $5mil more per unit and just stockpile SM-4 units.

Inspiration for my next generation ground-based air-defender. A giant tank with VLS tubes for VAM-9s.

So, this is a 100+ tonne vehicle with a dedicated radar and laser CIWS (if I can get them) with more VLS tubes than a Kraken. Am I nuts or what?

Lonestar wrote:What happened in the Old Dominion?

You ejected his personnel and destroyed their equipment. That's probably a good place to start...

CmdrWilkens wrote:I can understand but, as I sorta missed how the tone of the conversation turned to something drastically different than we intended, I still would hold that you haven't goten the short stick from Wilkonia nor had to short stick us mostly because the only military personnel who were serving either have associations to space launch programs or to consulates which makes them diplomats above soldiers.

So anyway IG you have reason to be pissed at the whole of the MESS, OOC I think this was, and Rogue did hit it, one where tone led to public pronouncements from which one could not then back down even when the talks themselves were held as a private discourse. That said I would also hold that IC sometime around when you have to rpesent your next military budget for approval somebody is going to stop and question spending billions for refurb to ships less than a half decade old when we could spend $5mil more per unit and just stockpile SM-4 units.

Hmm.. Let me think about it. There's no actual news post that the ships will be placed in drydock.

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Lonestar wrote:What happened in the Old Dominion?

You ejected his personnel and destroyed their equipment. That's probably a good place to start...

Pretty much what he said. The less than amicable circumstances around the leaving makes the hardliners suspicious that the system might have been tampered with.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Pretty much what he said. The less than amicable circumstances around the leaving makes the hardliners suspicious that the system might have been tampered with.

I didn't destroy anything that wasn't recoverable, unless you really are screeching about some Hard drives and flash drives.

It isn't like I started blowing up big ticket items just for the Hell of it. And considering that you had the Senate whining loudly within minutes of leaving the MESS it's reasonable to seize all storage Media your personnel have and destroy them(outside what you had in your Embassy, of course). If you really want to file a compensation claim for a couple dozen Harddrives, flash drives, and consumer appliances, I'll be glad to pay it.

EDIT: Hey Ryan, I know you're too dense to mind your shit, but for the record when someone else starts yelling about "ceasing all high level cooperation immediately, low level only at discretion of the Ministry" and having his legislative branch get belligerent, it's a completely reasonable reaction to assume those people are going to try to pull a fast one.

For future reference, unless I'm directing a statement at you, I don't want your opinion. Especially since you've shown that you have the brain cells of a overripe eggplant.

You should totally pull a Shepistan and have a cargo plane come in and dump Mickey Mouse money on Fingolfin's airfields. Or, if not, then have them dump scrubbed hard drives and cellphones and iShrooms and Byzantiumberries and stuff. For the lulz.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:You should totally pull a Shepistan and have a cargo plane come in and dump Mickey Mouse money on Fingolfin's airfields. Or, if not, then have them dump scrubbed hard drives and cellphones and iShrooms and Byzantiumberries and stuff. For the lulz.

Those Media are completely unrecoverable. Like I said, I'll be glad to provide monetary compensation if he requests it.


(which he hasn't)

Lonestar wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Pretty much what he said. The less than amicable circumstances around the leaving makes the hardliners suspicious that the system might have been tampered with.

I didn't destroy anything that wasn't recoverable, unless you really are screeching about some Hard drives and flash drives.

It isn't like I started blowing up big ticket items just for the Hell of it. And considering that you had the Senate whining loudly within minutes of leaving the MESS it's reasonable to seize all storage Media your personnel have and destroy them(outside what you had in your Embassy, of course). If you really want to file a compensation claim for a couple dozen Harddrives, flash drives, and consumer appliances, I'll be glad to pay it.

Didn't you also evict us from civilian projects like the Sonic Cruiser? That was pretty much civilian business and not on a governmental level at all.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Didn't you also evict us from civilian projects like the Sonic Cruiser? That was pretty much civilian business and not on a governmental level at all.

Fair enough. We can settle that in court proceedings. I might add that a glance at your OOB revealed that you had yet to purchase any Sonic Cruisers so I assumed you had dropped out of your own accord.

Lonestar wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Didn't you also evict us from civilian projects like the Sonic Cruiser? That was pretty much civilian business and not on a governmental level at all.

Fair enough. We can settle that in court proceedings. I might add that a glance at your OOB revealed that you had yet to purchase any Sonic Cruisers so I assumed you had dropped out of your own accord.

Well, that was a civilian affair, and I would have had Byzantine Airlines buy those planes... if I remember to write a news post about them.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Well, that was a civilian affair, and I would have had Byzantine Airlines buy those planes... if I remember to write a news post about them.

The planes have been in service a couple years(in-game), which lead me to conclude the project was very low on your "gives-a-damnometer". Besides, your sudden tightening of export controls also set off alarm bells. If you're going to be blocking technology going one way, no reason for us to not reciprocate.

Lonestar wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Well, that was a civilian affair, and I would have had Byzantine Airlines buy those planes... if I remember to write a news post about them.

The planes have been in service a couple years(in-game), which lead me to conclude the project was very low on your "gives-a-damnometer". Besides, your sudden tightening of export controls also set off alarm bells. If you're going to be blocking technology going one way, no reason for us to not reciprocate.

Well, sure. Though I would point out that given that the US allows the sale of airplanes to most nations, and that Boeing subcontracts a fair deal of its aircraft components, some thing of some measure could be worked out to get around export controls.

Plus, Wilkins pretty much indicated that some export controls would be placed on certain items and subject to Foreign Military Sales approval from Congress or whatever is your equivalent.

Anyhow, made a post to at least ... go some ways in dealing with the problem of the lack of amicability... You can follow up and say the deal was done and planes to be bought.

Lonestar wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote:You should totally pull a Shepistan and have a cargo plane come in and dump Mickey Mouse money on Fingolfin's airfields. Or, if not, then have them dump scrubbed hard drives and cellphones and iShrooms and Byzantiumberries and stuff. For the lulz.

Those Media are completely unrecoverable. Like I said, I'll be glad to provide monetary compensation if he requests it.(which he hasn't)

Which is why you dump the unrecoverable media in someone else's airfields in a symbolic act of dickery.

Oh well.

I might as well go with more Half-Life references.

Fingolfin, give one of your bespectacled particle accelerator CERN scientists a crowbar! Doctor Godron Freemang!