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I agree with Pablo, and that's where I think I'll lay my vote.

Pablo Sanchez wrote:

Stormbringer wrote:Personally, I think the only thing that's really hurt these STGODs has been the whining and complaining over every damn thing. And that's not going to change because that happens because those people are just pussies.

Ouch. I too, think the current plan for STGODs is fine. I prefer the free-form system, though I think the concept of gradations of power status might add to the game.

Indeed, it's meant to be harsh. I'm sick of certain people (and you know who you are) being the ones to drag every last thing that doesn't go 100% the way they envisioned it into a five page bitchfest. Quite frankly that's the problem with this STGOD; not any matter of the rules setup. That won't change it because they'll just bitch about the rules. Maybe I am building a bit of bitterness to some people but frankly I've never seen an STGOD in which the OOC thread is twice the size of the game and filled with that much whining. To paraphrase the great Eric Cartman, they just have sand in their vaginas.

I don't think we need new rules setups or harder definitions; we just need to smack down the whiners.

Alyrium Denryle wrote:

Spyder wrote:
Really? You break out the calculater and manage to factor in heat loss? And do a little bit of vector arithmatic to work out how the oncoming firepower is distributed over a section of hull or shielding?

Maybe not that bad, but if you check my OOB the power outputs of my weapons is listed, as is the exact number of every gun, refire rates, relative targeting accuracy against various targets...

The thing is though, for your figures to me meaningful you do need to be that bad and so does everyone else. Unless you can quantify all the forces involved when a weapon meets the defense, there's not a lot of point in quantifying any. It's like 9 - 6 - a + q / (2y + t) = x, solve for x.

Spyder wrote:It's like 9 - 6 - a + q / (2y + t) = x, solve for x.

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*goes for calculator*

Bugsby wrote:

Spyder wrote:It's like 9 - 6 - a + q / (2y + t) = x, solve for x.

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*goes for calculator*

Three unknown variables FOOL!

I think we need two sets of rules made/clarified.

Firstly we need a ship building 'common sense' rule sort of. I.E. "You cannot fire millions of missles a second and claim to be laser centric" or "You cannot have mega weapons that take up the same sized slots as regular weapons" or "You cannot have inferior ships, crew, technology, and size and yet say that if you ram dreadnoughts with them the Dreadnoughts will die." If we could have something like that it would be SOOOOOO much easier for battles.

Secondly, we need intelligence and covert ops worked out better. We've had one or two good covert ops stories, but we've never actually had real intelligence operations in the kind of what you actually try to have intelligence operations do, except in a few rare cases. I.E. We've generally had our intelligence react to fleets moving, but a well run intelligence operation would hopefully know about the fleets movement before they began moving. I understand that this is hard to run because many big things are done in just one post, but if a way to make this happen could be worked out, I'd be 110% for it.

there is no way in hell we are calculating damage. Ships have too many guns. If each ship had *1* gun, maybe; but that's just stupid.

Straha wrote:

Bugsby wrote:

Spyder wrote:It's like 9 - 6 - a + q / (2y + t) = x, solve for x.

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*goes for calculator*

Three unknown variables FOOL!

Five, actually.

Straha wrote:we need intelligence and covert ops worked out better.

I don't know, it works pretty well. At most we could use a system whereby each player announced out of character what sort of intel operations are going on in each nation: Low risk info collection, jouralistic sabotage, etc. Even that isn't so important. Any intel operation that would give out info of *any* value needs to be done as it has been done in the past.

The ASVS way seems best to me, in many ways. For instance, breaking up each sub-plot into different threads makes following the STGOD easier, because you automatically know what a message pertains to (the thread titile) and whether or not your power is involved. For instance, if the Mafiosi and the Romans are discussing trade agreements, the player who runs the Draconic can safely ignore it, unless he has vested interests in the agreement.

Also, having each nation in nearly equal in power doesn't seem realistic. Some nations are simply more powerful than others.

I'm also in favor of expanding STGOD to include more lone characters and groups, rather than powers. I'm not necessarily talking about an ASVS-style STGOD mythology (you know, LOTR + Sailor Moon, with a few others thrown in for good measure), but more rogues, vengeful mages, lone wolfs, terrorist cells, psychotic elves, greedy pervert businessmen (cue RayCav), mad scientists, thieving archeologists, and other general odd characters.

I would be open to some numbers being thrown around the STGOD. However, there are limits. Case in point, the Lords of Ether system in SpaceBattles positively bristles with mathematics. I like free-forming, but as a moderator in the current STGOD I can see the advantages of having a few numbers in the mix.

Ultimately, I think that gradient powers may be something to consider in the future, akin to the "Great Game" system in Space Battles once again. The system is elitist which is not necessarily a bad thing. There are four power levels.

1. single nation power: you control one system, and as such your army, navy and so on is low. Best for players that are just learning the ropes, or don't think they will have enough time to commit fully to the STGOD.
2. minor regional power: you control a few systems, your army, navy and so on is significant. But you don't have enough firepower to take on anyone much bigger than yourself.
3. major regional power: you control several systems, your army, navy and so on is considerable. You are a mover and shaker, capable of directing influencing the galaxy as a whole.
4. Great power: you control an empire, it would take a coalition of weaker nations or another great power to match your military, economic and political power. These are the movers of the game, and only a player that can handle such responsabilities can have one.

*shrugs* I am just throwing ideas around really, but I feel that the STGOD system a whole is not beyond some improvements and streamlinings.