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Robert Walper wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:

Robert Walper wrote:Exactly, however, One's shield handled imparted momentum, one of the strongest arguements against KE shielding being "feasible". Other Borg drones physically rammed him but were physically repelled and incapacitated. During those two attacks, One himself was not budged an inch, he was completely immobile while the other drones were flung backward from the impact.

You exaggerate. They staggered backward as if stunned, but an electric fence produces the same effect and it doesn't cancel momentum.

I seem to recall the Borg drones moving towards One with a significant speed, speed which by all accounts should have at the very least pushed him back a foot or so. But he didn't budge an inch, and the drones did seem repelled. I'll have to look up the clip again. I'll post a link if that helps, should be on the StarTrek.net site.

I could slam into an NHL hockey player a lot faster than a Borg Drone and I wouldn't move him an inch. Is he immune to Momentum?


Since for all we know One could have been quite massive.

Striderteen wrote:
The M8 AGS was light enough to drop if you used the lighter Level I modular armor package, and the new LAV-25 Stryker armored car is supposed to be C-130 airdrooppable (it isn't, but that's a long and ugly story).

LAV-25 and Stryker are not the same vehicle, and Stryker was never meant to be airdroppabul. It was meant to be deployable via C-130 and is giving 17 minutes work.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Striderteen wrote:
The M8 AGS was light enough to drop if you used the lighter Level I modular armor package, and the new LAV-25 Stryker armored car is supposed to be C-130 airdrooppable (it isn't, but that's a long and ugly story).

LAV-25 and Stryker are not the same vehicle, and Stryker was never meant to be airdroppabul. It was meant to be deployable via C-130 and is giving 17 minutes work.

I stand corrected. The Stryker Interim Armored Vehicle is based on the LAV-III; the LAV-25 is an older member of the same vehicle series.

The Stryker is not airportable by C-130 except on paper -- with the tires deflated, it will fit in a C-130 with about two inches clearance on each side, which violates Air Force safety regulations. The original LAV-III will fit, though; the Stryker's a bulked-up version which they pretend is a light tank.

Striderteen wrote:
The Stryker is not airportable by C-130 except on paper

Funny, the Army airlifted a company in C-130's in one of its more recent major exercises. It took 15 minutes work to load and secure them and 17 to unload them and get them ready for action.

The original LAV-III will fit, though; the Stryker's a bulked-up version which they pretend is a light tank.

The only people who pretend it’s a light tank are the morons who rabidly attack the program. It is an battle taxi and a very good one. It has better protection then the M113 series and BTR-60/70/80/90 series which are basically #1 and #2 on the list of most heavily produced armored vehicles in the world and have the same mission.

I would think M-113s with one of the better mod kits available would be better suited not to mention cheaper then the Stryker project. Especially as the M-113 is tracked instead of wheeled.

FOG3 wrote:I would think M-113s with one of the better mod kits available would be better suited not to mention cheaper then the Stryker project. Especially as the M-113 is tracked instead of wheeled.

Except the M113 can't carry a large caliber gun. An upgraded M113 and production of the XM8 was proposed but rejected mainly for cost, though also for the larger logistics footprint.

Sea Skimmer wrote: The only people who pretend it’s a light tank are the morons who rabidly attack the program. It is an battle taxi and a very good one. It has better protection then the M113 series and BTR-60/70/80/90 series which are basically #1 and #2 on the list of most heavily produced armored vehicles in the world and have the same mission.

Those who attack the program think the M113A3 would've been better for the task- they do have several good points. M113A3 is lighter than LAV-III/Stryker, smaller (but with a more roomy troop compartment because it doesn't have the big wheeled drive train) and can be fitted with applique armor and digitization gear as easily as LAV-III was.

M113s can be fitted to carry TOW missiles, not necessarily the ammo capacity of a Stryker but they aren't necessarily defenseless. Still wheels are vulnerable which is my main complaint with the Stryker design. Wheeled vehicles might be more economical in urbanized areas because the roads are paved and you don't need dedicated work crews but otherwise tracked has the advantage.

EDIT: You have to modify a Stryker to get it in a C-130 with a Height Mamagement system and it is to heavy for USAF rules to permit an assault landing with a C-130. MTVL and ACAV are examples of highly effective modifications. Plus pictures I'm seeing of the one with the tank gun in dirt mean its likely to get stuck in the omnipresent mud of battlefields.

...Two discussions at the price of ONE!

The Borg most likely would've developed some kind of adaptation to bullets eventually.


Provided that the enemy they are fighting decides to employ bullets as a standard measure against the Borg.

Say that Starfleet issues orders that all ships in the fleet will carry stocks of bulleted guns. Thus anytime the Borg board a Federation ship, they would encounter a crew armed with firearms.


Eventually after realizing that so many of thier drones are being killed, the Borg would develop some countermeasure, just as any sensible tactician would (of course there is some debate about wheter the later Borg are sensible or have any notion of tactics, but that is another debate.)

Lord MJ wrote:The Borg most likely would've developed some kind of adaptation to bullets eventually.


Provided that the enemy they are fighting decides to employ bullets as a standard measure against the Borg.

Say that Starfleet issues orders that all ships in the fleet will carry stocks of bulleted guns. Thus anytime the Borg board a Federation ship, they would encounter a crew armed with firearms.


Eventually after realizing that so many of thier drones are being killed, the Borg would develop some countermeasure, just as any sensible tactician would (of course there is some debate about wheter the later Borg are sensible or have any notion of tactics, but that is another debate.)

Do you have any evidence of this? Remember that the Borg never even altered their tactics against S8472. Moreover, if the Borg were going to incorporate KE shielding for their drones, they should have done so already for ones that were likely to go into a tactical environment. They haven't.