StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Gandalf wrote: 2019-06-24 06:56pm

Lord Revan wrote: 2019-05-28 08:46pm

Gandalf wrote: 2019-05-28 06:39pm Why wouldn't some smugglers want a Star Destroyer? It's a hell of a way to assert a place in a black economy.

As it was pointed out before a star destroyer is one hells of attention grabber and a smart smuggler plans for the eventually that things will go back to a reasonble "normal" state of affairs, during which a major warship like an ISD would be a liability. A smuggler would want a ship that you could potentially park at any non-resistricted starport in the galaxy and not drawn attention.

Or you just park it above a planet somewhere for a sweet mobile base of operations, outside of the Republic/Empire/other. Space police coming? Hightail it. Rival space gang coming? Then they'll need a lot of firepower, or you can hightail it. Meanwhile, assuming that the ISD is owned/operated by a more or less rational space gang, you can lease space within, and become an economic hub because the Pirate Star Destroyer is a safe place to do business in a lawless bit of the galaxy.

Taking it to a fight would be silly. But in a galaxy with a master race of space wizards running things, who knows?

Yes as essentially a semi-mobile space station an ISD could work, it's small enough to not be easily noticeble and if you keep mostly immobible (moving only when you have to) the fuel comsumption shouldn't be a major issue. That said as an active ship you take on smuggling missions a star destroyer is a no-go.

Galvatron wrote: 2019-06-25 09:18pm How about an SSD?

For a large pirate fleet in a time of chaos, having a capital ship makes sense, if they have the resources to crew, maintain, and supply it. In a time of stable government, it'll simply draw more attention than they can afford to deal with.

Galvatron wrote: 2019-06-25 09:18pm How about an SSD?

I would say that a pirate capturing an SSD is stupid, but then Tyber Zann once hijacked the Eclipse so...

More evidence the nuCanon is just as dumb as the old, even if (slightly?) more restrained.

Jesus Christ, I thought the old canon was dumb. I mean, it was, but what's the bloody point of wiping the slate clean if you're just going to dive right back into the nonsense pool?

RogueIce wrote: 2019-06-26 02:35am

Galvatron wrote: 2019-06-25 09:18pm How about an SSD?

I would say that a pirate capturing an SSD is stupid, but then Tyber Zann once hijacked the Eclipse so...

More evidence the nuCanon is just as dumb as the old, even if (slightly?) more restrained.

I actually don't have a problem with this, in the immediate aftermath of the Empire's collapse or a similarly chaotic era.

Again, I think that some people are coming at this from a 20th. Century mindset, where the idea of a pirate fleet able to challenge professional navies is unthinkable. For much of history, that wasn't always the case.

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-06-26 02:57am

RogueIce wrote: 2019-06-26 02:35am

Galvatron wrote: 2019-06-25 09:18pm How about an SSD?

I would say that a pirate capturing an SSD is stupid, but then Tyber Zann once hijacked the Eclipse so...

More evidence the nuCanon is just as dumb as the old, even if (slightly?) more restrained.

I actually don't have a problem with this, in the immediate aftermath of the Empire's collapse or a similarly chaotic era.

Again, I think that some people are coming at this from a 20th. Century mindset, where the idea of a pirate fleet able to challenge professional navies is unthinkable. For much of history, that wasn't always the case.

true that wasn't always the case, but that was more due to professional navies being either unable or unwilling to commit the needed resources to defeat those pirate fleets rather then those fleets being that powerful, so most pirates would probably face a frigates or at most very low end ships of the line, however facing a proper fleet of mostly ships of the line would spell doom to pretty much any pirate fleet in the planet.

That said it also explain why the Annihilator might have been overlooked, it's a chaotic time and either the Empire or nacent New Republic would have the resources to go chase after a single SSD as long the ship commander doesn't cause too much issues and that's assuming they're even willing to commit resources to that in the first place instead of concilidating(sic) their powerbase.

RogueIce wrote: 2019-06-26 02:35am

Galvatron wrote: 2019-06-25 09:18pm How about an SSD?

I would say that a pirate capturing an SSD is stupid,

I don't think the novels even established how they did it. We were introduced to the pirates out of the blue at some point after they'd already taken the ship and started using it to plunder the spacelanes.

Galvatron wrote: 2019-06-26 10:17am

RogueIce wrote: 2019-06-26 02:35am

Galvatron wrote: 2019-06-25 09:18pm How about an SSD?

I would say that a pirate capturing an SSD is stupid,

I don't think the novels even established how they did it. We were introduced to the pirates out of the blue at some point after they'd already taken the ship and started using it to plunder the spacelanes.

For all we know they "captured" it because they're the orginal imperial crew who thought it would be better to become pirates then to keep on serving in the imperial fleet.

Lord Revan wrote: 2019-06-27 07:41am

Galvatron wrote: 2019-06-26 10:17am

RogueIce wrote: 2019-06-26 02:35am

I would say that a pirate capturing an SSD is stupid,

I don't think the novels even established how they did it. We were introduced to the pirates out of the blue at some point after they'd already taken the ship and started using it to plunder the spacelanes.

For all we know they "captured" it because they're the orginal imperial crew who thought it would be better to become pirates then to keep on serving in the imperial fleet.

Not that that would be an easy thing to do. How many of those men have families back home to worry about? How many would follow the authority drilled into them for years? And how many do you need to neutralize the remainder and seize the ship?

It's one of my problems with the old canon, how quickly warlords were able to come to power. But I prefer the old canon because it was so jumbled. When half the sources contradict each other, you don't really feel obligated to follow them. It was always easier to simply forget about the odd Splinter of the Mind's Eye or the nonsense like Kuat being seized almost bloodlessly.

Considering the leader of Kuat had tried to commit suicide (and take part of the Shipyards with them), the resulting political turmoil might have weakend Kuat to the point it could be taken bloodlessly.

The thing to remember is that Palpatine made the empire pretty much impossible to remain united without him, both in the legandaries and current EU (though thru different means).

In legendaries it was thru a combination of unclear line of succession (so there was no clear person who could say "I rule the empire now that Palpatine is dead", but rather there were several persons who could make that claim) and branches of the empire hierarchy being openly antagonistic towards each other (a trait palpatine sudtly enforced to boost his own authority), so only were there no-one who could hold the authority to make the imperial forces rally, most if candidates were actively hostile towards each other and would sooner see the empire burn around them then let another candidate assume the imperial throne. Needless to say this would make cordinating the imperial war machine to counter the rebels rather difficult.

Essentially the same clusterfuck that nazi Germany fell into after Hitler's death only turned up to eleven.

Lord Revan wrote: 2019-07-03 10:03pm The thing to remember is that Palpatine made the empire pretty much impossible to remain united without him, both in the legandaries and current EU (though thru different means).

In legendaries it was thru a combination of unclear line of succession (so there was no clear person who could say "I rule the empire now that Palpatine is dead", but rather there were several persons who could make that claim) and branches of the empire hierarchy being openly antagonistic towards each other (a trait palpatine sudtly enforced to boost his own authority), so only were there no-one who could hold the authority to make the imperial forces rally, most if candidates were actively hostile towards each other and would sooner see the empire burn around them then let another candidate assume the imperial throne. Needless to say this would make cordinating the imperial war machine to counter the rebels rather difficult.

Essentially the same clusterfuck that nazi Germany fell into after Hitler's death only turned up to eleven.

Yes, I agree with all of that, it just happened too quickly and on too broad a scale. An admiral laying claim to his portion of space until a clear successor can come around is one thing, but a captain taking his ship off to become a pirate is a bit hard to swallow. Simply because those crews are living beings, not cogs in a machine. They wouldn't WANT to abandon their homes and families, and they would have serious questions regarding what will be happening to their pay, their benefits, the possibility of promotion, all the things a state can manage but a pirate maybe can't. Or a warlord maybe can't.

Solauren wrote: 2019-07-03 08:30pm Considering the leader of Kuat had tried to commit suicide (and take part of the Shipyards with them), the resulting political turmoil might have weakend Kuat to the point it could be taken bloodlessly.

Oh that's just ridiculous. I don't remember it ever being stated that civilian government on Kuat had any say over the use of the fleet. In fact, I think I remember some book or another talking about how Kuat had been effectively nationalized, turned into a military shipyard in all but name. The admiral or whatever title of the Imperial fleet is going to have one duty: defend the yards. Regardless of what political nonsense is going on, he's going to handle that. At the very least, bloody the nose of the New Republic.

Anyway, what I had in mind was the bit where they hacked into some of the Imperial warships and made them shoot the other ones. I dislike anything to do with automation or computers in the Star Wars galaxy because it raises unanswerable questions. Droids doing things like Artoo and 3PO do is fine, but having them man warships meant to be crewed organically makes it hard to not wonder why ships have organic crews in the first place. Or organic foot soldiers. Or anything else not done by a machine.

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-04 03:00am

Lord Revan wrote: 2019-07-03 10:03pm The thing to remember is that Palpatine made the empire pretty much impossible to remain united without him, both in the legandaries and current EU (though thru different means).

In legendaries it was thru a combination of unclear line of succession (so there was no clear person who could say "I rule the empire now that Palpatine is dead", but rather there were several persons who could make that claim) and branches of the empire hierarchy being openly antagonistic towards each other (a trait palpatine sudtly enforced to boost his own authority), so only were there no-one who could hold the authority to make the imperial forces rally, most if candidates were actively hostile towards each other and would sooner see the empire burn around them then let another candidate assume the imperial throne. Needless to say this would make cordinating the imperial war machine to counter the rebels rather difficult.

Essentially the same clusterfuck that nazi Germany fell into after Hitler's death only turned up to eleven.

Yes, I agree with all of that, it just happened too quickly and on too broad a scale. An admiral laying claim to his portion of space until a clear successor can come around is one thing, but a captain taking his ship off to become a pirate is a bit hard to swallow. Simply because those crews are living beings, not cogs in a machine. They wouldn't WANT to abandon their homes and families, and they would have serious questions regarding what will be happening to their pay, their benefits, the possibility of promotion, all the things a state can manage but a pirate maybe can't. Or a warlord maybe can't.

Well the thing to remember is that it's not "hmmm I'm bored, you know what I've not done to today,I know become a outlaw pirate, that sounds like fun", but rather "All possible organizations that paid my salary are for all intents and purposes gone, I got 3 options, join a warlord and hope they're capable of paying me, join the rebels and hope they won't just execute me or last strike out on my own".

That's why the "when" is important if it's before the Battle of Yavin (aka during the height of the Galactic Empire) it would seem rather odd for a imperial captain to strike out on their own, but if the defection happened between the battles of Endor and Jakku (aka when the empire was falling apart) it becomes much more likely and if happened post Jakku it comes even more likely as the Empire has stopped existing for all intents and purposes and should said captain not know about the First Order, striking out on their own would seem like a good option for those people.

As long as there's an functioning imperial hierarchy a star destroyer going rogue seems unlikely (but not impossible) but after said hierarchy starts falling apart things change.

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-04 03:00am Anyway, what I had in mind was the bit where they hacked into some of the Imperial warships and made them shoot the other ones. I dislike anything to do with automation or computers in the Star Wars galaxy because it raises unanswerable questions. Droids doing things like Artoo and 3PO do is fine, but having them man warships meant to be crewed organically makes it hard to not wonder why ships have organic crews in the first place. Or organic foot soldiers. Or anything else not done by a machine.

Perhaps you heard about this little 'tif' that occurred called the Clone Wars? Turns out, a few large corporations used a near-fully automated military to nearly take over the galaxy before they were defeated by a military consisting mostly of organic beings? Apparently, people dislike the idea of large scale automation in the military as a result.

Solauren wrote: 2019-07-04 10:12pm

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-04 03:00am Anyway, what I had in mind was the bit where they hacked into some of the Imperial warships and made them shoot the other ones. I dislike anything to do with automation or computers in the Star Wars galaxy because it raises unanswerable questions. Droids doing things like Artoo and 3PO do is fine, but having them man warships meant to be crewed organically makes it hard to not wonder why ships have organic crews in the first place. Or organic foot soldiers. Or anything else not done by a machine.

Perhaps you heard about this little 'tif' that occurred called the Clone Wars? Turns out, a few large corporations used a near-fully automated military to nearly take over the galaxy before they were defeated by a military consisting mostly of organic beings? Apparently, people dislike the idea of large scale automation in the military as a result.

Bringing automation to the forefront was one of the worst things the prequels did. The way the hyperspace ramming was one of the worst things TLJ did. It asks the question, why haven't we seen this before? If the Rebel Alliance is so cash poor as they seem to be, but has the computer expertise to write a code that can hijack dreadnoughts, why didn't they do that to the Death Star instead of waste a bunch of ships trying to blow it up? Why didn't the Empire use it all the time, turning Rebel ships on each other left and right?

And here's another thing. Accepting that you're right, that it's because the Clone Wars left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, why do they build ships for human crews that can be completely controlled by the computers? No matter how hard you try to hack it, you can't make a T-34 turn its guns on friendlies, so why didn't they build Star Destroyers with the computers hardwired out of critical systems?

It's another bit of EU that poorly matches the feel of the OT. Just like all those comics where some plucky heroes hijack a whole Star Destroyer and crew it with maybe a couple hundred people, or the time Anakin flew a Venator on his own. Lazy writers think they've come up with something clever and it's just a stupid hack.

Lord Revan wrote: 2019-07-04 08:36pm

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-04 03:00am

Lord Revan wrote: 2019-07-03 10:03pm The thing to remember is that Palpatine made the empire pretty much impossible to remain united without him, both in the legandaries and current EU (though thru different means).

In legendaries it was thru a combination of unclear line of succession (so there was no clear person who could say "I rule the empire now that Palpatine is dead", but rather there were several persons who could make that claim) and branches of the empire hierarchy being openly antagonistic towards each other (a trait palpatine sudtly enforced to boost his own authority), so only were there no-one who could hold the authority to make the imperial forces rally, most if candidates were actively hostile towards each other and would sooner see the empire burn around them then let another candidate assume the imperial throne. Needless to say this would make cordinating the imperial war machine to counter the rebels rather difficult.

Essentially the same clusterfuck that nazi Germany fell into after Hitler's death only turned up to eleven.

Yes, I agree with all of that, it just happened too quickly and on too broad a scale. An admiral laying claim to his portion of space until a clear successor can come around is one thing, but a captain taking his ship off to become a pirate is a bit hard to swallow. Simply because those crews are living beings, not cogs in a machine. They wouldn't WANT to abandon their homes and families, and they would have serious questions regarding what will be happening to their pay, their benefits, the possibility of promotion, all the things a state can manage but a pirate maybe can't. Or a warlord maybe can't.

Well the thing to remember is that it's not "hmmm I'm bored, you know what I've not done to today,I know become a outlaw pirate, that sounds like fun", but rather "All possible organizations that paid my salary are for all intents and purposes gone, I got 3 options, join a warlord and hope they're capable of paying me, join the rebels and hope they won't just execute me or last strike out on my own".

That's why the "when" is important if it's before the Battle of Yavin (aka during the height of the Galactic Empire) it would seem rather odd for a imperial captain to strike out on their own, but if the defection happened between the battles of Endor and Jakku (aka when the empire was falling apart) it becomes much more likely and if happened post Jakku it comes even more likely as the Empire has stopped existing for all intents and purposes and should said captain not know about the First Order, striking out on their own would seem like a good option for those people.

As long as there's an functioning imperial hierarchy a star destroyer going rogue seems unlikely (but not impossible) but after said hierarchy starts falling apart things change.

The thing that turns me is that everyone would have to go with it. Thousands of people aboard that ship. You need at least close to a majority, and for the rest to not fight too hard. Plus there's the stormtrooper complement, who exist partly to make sure you don't strike out on your own.

In the old canon, you had warlords splitting from each other from day three. The average Navy crewman isn't going to be done taking orders in that time. They'll have to at least fin some excuse that makes it LOOK like they're following official channels, have a real claim to the title.

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-05 05:11pm

Lord Revan wrote: 2019-07-04 08:36pm

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-04 03:00am

Yes, I agree with all of that, it just happened too quickly and on too broad a scale. An admiral laying claim to his portion of space until a clear successor can come around is one thing, but a captain taking his ship off to become a pirate is a bit hard to swallow. Simply because those crews are living beings, not cogs in a machine. They wouldn't WANT to abandon their homes and families, and they would have serious questions regarding what will be happening to their pay, their benefits, the possibility of promotion, all the things a state can manage but a pirate maybe can't. Or a warlord maybe can't.

Well the thing to remember is that it's not "hmmm I'm bored, you know what I've not done to today,I know become a outlaw pirate, that sounds like fun", but rather "All possible organizations that paid my salary are for all intents and purposes gone, I got 3 options, join a warlord and hope they're capable of paying me, join the rebels and hope they won't just execute me or last strike out on my own".

That's why the "when" is important if it's before the Battle of Yavin (aka during the height of the Galactic Empire) it would seem rather odd for a imperial captain to strike out on their own, but if the defection happened between the battles of Endor and Jakku (aka when the empire was falling apart) it becomes much more likely and if happened post Jakku it comes even more likely as the Empire has stopped existing for all intents and purposes and should said captain not know about the First Order, striking out on their own would seem like a good option for those people.

As long as there's an functioning imperial hierarchy a star destroyer going rogue seems unlikely (but not impossible) but after said hierarchy starts falling apart things change.

The thing that turns me is that everyone would have to go with it. Thousands of people aboard that ship. You need at least close to a majority, and for the rest to not fight too hard. Plus there's the stormtrooper complement, who exist partly to make sure you don't strike out on your own.

In the old canon, you had warlords splitting from each other from day three. The average Navy crewman isn't going to be done taking orders in that time. They'll have to at least fin some excuse that makes it LOOK like they're following official channels, have a real claim to the title.

Hmm... are the crew of an Imperial warship typically drawn from the same world/system/sector, or do people move around a lot? If the contingent was mostly from one system or something, I could see them deciding in the chaos to just head home and defend their home planet/set up their own little independent mini-state.

Alternatively, the culture is mostly just "follow the guy above you", so if the top guy on a ship deserts, everyone just goes with it. Palpatine also encouraged a culture of infighting, canonically.

Or, yeah, the deserting captain could come up with some bullshit excuse to give him a paper-thin veneer of legitimacy. And once a few desert, people can start claiming "All the other guys are traitors, so I'm refusing to follow their orders, loyal patriot that I am!"

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-05 05:11pm

Lord Revan wrote: 2019-07-04 08:36pm

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-04 03:00am

Yes, I agree with all of that, it just happened too quickly and on too broad a scale. An admiral laying claim to his portion of space until a clear successor can come around is one thing, but a captain taking his ship off to become a pirate is a bit hard to swallow. Simply because those crews are living beings, not cogs in a machine. They wouldn't WANT to abandon their homes and families, and they would have serious questions regarding what will be happening to their pay, their benefits, the possibility of promotion, all the things a state can manage but a pirate maybe can't. Or a warlord maybe can't.

Well the thing to remember is that it's not "hmmm I'm bored, you know what I've not done to today,I know become a outlaw pirate, that sounds like fun", but rather "All possible organizations that paid my salary are for all intents and purposes gone, I got 3 options, join a warlord and hope they're capable of paying me, join the rebels and hope they won't just execute me or last strike out on my own".

That's why the "when" is important if it's before the Battle of Yavin (aka during the height of the Galactic Empire) it would seem rather odd for a imperial captain to strike out on their own, but if the defection happened between the battles of Endor and Jakku (aka when the empire was falling apart) it becomes much more likely and if happened post Jakku it comes even more likely as the Empire has stopped existing for all intents and purposes and should said captain not know about the First Order, striking out on their own would seem like a good option for those people.

As long as there's an functioning imperial hierarchy a star destroyer going rogue seems unlikely (but not impossible) but after said hierarchy starts falling apart things change.

The thing that turns me is that everyone would have to go with it. Thousands of people aboard that ship. You need at least close to a majority, and for the rest to not fight too hard. Plus there's the stormtrooper complement, who exist partly to make sure you don't strike out on your own.

In the old canon, you had warlords splitting from each other from day three. The average Navy crewman isn't going to be done taking orders in that time. They'll have to at least fin some excuse that makes it LOOK like they're following official channels, have a real claim to the title.

Sounds like a plot to the Red October

What's the training and indocterniation like for the EU Empire?

Depending on how, intense and inclusive it was (i.e brainwashing), the crew might just have followed orders regardless.
(That would explain how the Empire was able to order some of the stuff it supposedly did).

It's only the exception ones that became high level officers, or defected to the rebellion, or become Warlords as the Empire collapsed, that can resist or break that.

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-05 05:08pm

Solauren wrote: 2019-07-04 10:12pm

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-04 03:00am Anyway, what I had in mind was the bit where they hacked into some of the Imperial warships and made them shoot the other ones. I dislike anything to do with automation or computers in the Star Wars galaxy because it raises unanswerable questions. Droids doing things like Artoo and 3PO do is fine, but having them man warships meant to be crewed organically makes it hard to not wonder why ships have organic crews in the first place. Or organic foot soldiers. Or anything else not done by a machine.

Perhaps you heard about this little 'tif' that occurred called the Clone Wars? Turns out, a few large corporations used a near-fully automated military to nearly take over the galaxy before they were defeated by a military consisting mostly of organic beings? Apparently, people dislike the idea of large scale automation in the military as a result.

Bringing automation to the forefront was one of the worst things the prequels did. The way the hyperspace ramming was one of the worst things TLJ did. It asks the question, why haven't we seen this before? If the Rebel Alliance is so cash poor as they seem to be, but has the computer expertise to write a code that can hijack dreadnoughts, why didn't they do that to the Death Star instead of waste a bunch of ships trying to blow it up? Why didn't the Empire use it all the time, turning Rebel ships on each other left and right?

And here's another thing. Accepting that you're right, that it's because the Clone Wars left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, why do they build ships for human crews that can be completely controlled by the computers? No matter how hard you try to hack it, you can't make a T-34 turn its guns on friendlies, so why didn't they build Star Destroyers with the computers hardwired out of critical systems?

It's another bit of EU that poorly matches the feel of the OT. Just like all those comics where some plucky heroes hijack a whole Star Destroyer and crew it with maybe a couple hundred people, or the time Anakin flew a Venator on his own. Lazy writers think they've come up with something clever and it's just a stupid hack.

There's a pretty obvious explanation for why they don't use certain technologies more, that being political or cultural reasons. Because people are people, not tactical computers programmed for MAXIMUM PRAGMATISM.

We know that there's widespread prejudice against droids in Star Wars, and the Clone Wars, with droids being the ruthless faceless mooks of the losing side, would likely only have deepened that. Add to that the fact that actually effective combat droids are fairly rare (the basic Trade Federation battle droids are even worse than storm troopers, performance-wise). Meaning they're likely high-priced.

Ditto hyperspace ramming. We see ramming used on occassion in canon, sometimes very effectively. One fighter for an Executor class? Why do they not just kamikaze one A-wing into each enemy capital ship? Why are they still using Star Destroyers at all (and why does the OT get a pass on these things, while every possible nitpick is ruthlessly dredged up to "prove" that the Prequels and Sequels are the Worst Movies Ever)? Probably because, as in the real world, a lot of people don't like the idea of using suicide bombers if they can avoid it.

Its like asking why the real world banned poisoned gas as a weapon after WW1 (at least until the Syrian war trampled that precedent underfoot).

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-05 09:57pm Or, yeah, the deserting captain could come up with some bullshit excuse to give him a paper-thin veneer of legitimacy. And once a few desert, people can start claiming "All the other guys are traitors, so I'm refusing to follow their orders, loyal patriot that I am!"

Where Thrawn had to seek out worlds to align with him because he was a relative unknown to the Imperial political sphere post-Endor, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the other warlords became so at the urging of hardline regional governors/moffs who suddenly realized they were fucked if they didn't attract and support remnant forces. That way the warlord suddenly has not only the quasi-legitimate excuse of being a "protector force", but now they have an income stream to ensure their crews stay. And now the moffs/governors have protection from the fledgling New Republic/pirates/local uprisings.

My old EU knowledge is rusty as hell, so I couldn't tell you if this is what happened with guys like Zinji.

NeoGoomba wrote: 2019-07-08 08:29am

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-05 09:57pm Or, yeah, the deserting captain could come up with some bullshit excuse to give him a paper-thin veneer of legitimacy. And once a few desert, people can start claiming "All the other guys are traitors, so I'm refusing to follow their orders, loyal patriot that I am!"

Where Thrawn had to seek out worlds to align with him because he was a relative unknown to the Imperial political sphere post-Endor, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the other warlords became so at the urging of hardline regional governors/moffs who suddenly realized they were fucked if they didn't attract and support remnant forces. That way the warlord suddenly has not only the quasi-legitimate excuse of being a "protector force", but now they have an income stream to ensure their crews stay. And now the moffs/governors have protection from the fledgling New Republic/pirates/local uprisings.

My old EU knowledge is rusty as hell, so I couldn't tell you if this is what happened with guys like Zinji.

IIRC it's never outright stated exactly how the various major warlords came into power but what you say makes sense.

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-08 06:09am

KraytKing wrote: 2019-07-05 05:08pm

Solauren wrote: 2019-07-04 10:12pm

Perhaps you heard about this little 'tif' that occurred called the Clone Wars? Turns out, a few large corporations used a near-fully automated military to nearly take over the galaxy before they were defeated by a military consisting mostly of organic beings? Apparently, people dislike the idea of large scale automation in the military as a result.

Bringing automation to the forefront was one of the worst things the prequels did. The way the hyperspace ramming was one of the worst things TLJ did. It asks the question, why haven't we seen this before? If the Rebel Alliance is so cash poor as they seem to be, but has the computer expertise to write a code that can hijack dreadnoughts, why didn't they do that to the Death Star instead of waste a bunch of ships trying to blow it up? Why didn't the Empire use it all the time, turning Rebel ships on each other left and right?

And here's another thing. Accepting that you're right, that it's because the Clone Wars left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, why do they build ships for human crews that can be completely controlled by the computers? No matter how hard you try to hack it, you can't make a T-34 turn its guns on friendlies, so why didn't they build Star Destroyers with the computers hardwired out of critical systems?

It's another bit of EU that poorly matches the feel of the OT. Just like all those comics where some plucky heroes hijack a whole Star Destroyer and crew it with maybe a couple hundred people, or the time Anakin flew a Venator on his own. Lazy writers think they've come up with something clever and it's just a stupid hack.

There's a pretty obvious explanation for why they don't use certain technologies more, that being political or cultural reasons. Because people are people, not tactical computers programmed for MAXIMUM PRAGMATISM.

We know that there's widespread prejudice against droids in Star Wars, and the Clone Wars, with droids being the ruthless faceless mooks of the losing side, would likely only have deepened that. Add to that the fact that actually effective combat droids are fairly rare (the basic Trade Federation battle droids are even worse than storm troopers, performance-wise). Meaning they're likely high-priced.

Ditto hyperspace ramming. We see ramming used on occassion in canon, sometimes very effectively. One fighter for an Executor class? Why do they not just kamikaze one A-wing into each enemy capital ship? Why are they still using Star Destroyers at all (and why does the OT get a pass on these things, while every possible nitpick is ruthlessly dredged up to "prove" that the Prequels and Sequels are the Worst Movies Ever)? Probably because, as in the real world, a lot of people don't like the idea of using suicide bombers if they can avoid it.

Its like asking why the real world banned poisoned gas as a weapon after WW1 (at least until the Syrian war trampled that precedent underfoot).

Italy used gas weapons in Ethiopia, didn't they? The Empire is a state of total information control. They can use droids and hacking as much as they want and just pretend it never happened. Because unlike our world, there is no other authority. The Empire only has to fight internal insurrection, and any news the terrorists peddle can be discredited as propaganda, assuming it even achieves any sort of spread. We banned gas weapons because we knew the enemy could use them just as effectively, and it would make war unsustainable. The Rebels have no reason to hold back, because their war is already unsustainable. The Empire has no reason to hold back because the enemy can't retaliate in kind.

The OT gets a pass because it was the original, damn it. It established what Star Wars is, so when other stuff comes along and fucks that up, then OF COURSE we take the original! The prequels on their own would simply be a kinda weird sci fi universe I would probably avoid, except for certain good bits. Added to the OT, I dislike them even more because it leads to discussions like this, where it fucks up a good universe. Of course, it does add good bits. I like the idea of the clone troopers. I dislike the idea of a droid army. I like the idea of a massive Jedi purge. I dislike the way Anakin was turned to the dark side.

Cyber war doesn't belong in Star Wars because nowhere in the original trilogy was anything of that sort even hinted at. It makes for a more realistic, less cinematic universe, and that should be avoided.

There is also the distinct possibility that cyber-warfare of the kind you describe simply isn't possible in the SW universe, perhaps because they've had 25 millennia of technology and a lot of warfare to refine things. Perhaps Imperial and Rebel ships simply aren't vulnerable to cyber-infiltration from anywhere other than inside the ship (which is useless in a battle) because they learned from shit like the Clone Wars where armies of droids and supercomputers were the enemy.