Why not just collapse the wormhole?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-12 07:08pm

TheDarkling wrote:I dont think ships at warp give off exhaust.
Shields would be down, active sensors could be deactivated (In fact cloaking stopped active sensors in early models at least).
Weapons would also be offline.

The power output of SW ships is much higher than Fed ships (according to most figures at least) so I think Fed ships would be hard to detect uncloaked let alone cloaked.

The impulse engines are still glowing, thus tossing exhaust out.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-12 07:13pm

AntiMatter expelled during warp, never heard of that - point me too it please.

I have heard Ion trails but I thought they were just at impulse.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-12 07:15pm

Howedar: They work by reducing mass and pushing them into subspace so the impulse engines produce enough thrust for Supra light travel is that correct?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-12 07:39pm

Haven't a clue, but it doesn't matter. Impulse engines are active at some level even at warp, therefore there will be exhaust.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-12 07:42pm

Well thats what I thought but I can remember an episode when impulse was down and they went to Warp (probably a mistake on there part) however there must be a way to mask the exhaust or the feds would be able to detect cloaked ships.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-12 07:54pm

Considering that they weren't already doing that in ST VI, I'm not sure its part of standard combat scanning for the Alpha quadrant...

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-12 07:57pm

By that I mean scanning for the hot exhaust. Remeber they had to fit a torpedo with the equipment used for scanning gaseous anomalies in order to hit the cloaked BOP.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-12 07:59pm

Probably because it cant be used to trace a ship at warp and any ship not in warp would have to be real close thus if it were that close its a good bet they would intend to decloak and fire.

Or maybe they fixed it once the crew hit upon the idea and thus the Cloak makers responded in kind.

Hmm that didnt make much sense... oh well

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-12 08:07pm

Its hard making sense of Trek, I know

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-12 08:23pm

Yeah thats the thing, the people on the ship can tweak the vessel to about 3000% of what it was designed to do.

You have to wonder what the guys designing the ships do or what the scientist are upto since the crew can do almost anything on the fly.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-12 08:44pm

Well B&B really need to set down some rules for the damn ships. What it can and can't do. Of course since they're such crappy writers they have to resort to "what plot device can we use this week?" I mean the designers just make them look pretty, they have real experience on what a good ship should look like. Bad way to run a show if you ask me.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-12 09:13pm

Possibly, but we've never seen them mask their exhaust, so you can't assume that they can.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-12 09:15pm

Yes but it if it isnt masked then why dont the Feds use it to detect cloaked vessels.

Its not really that relevant anyway since I doubt it can be used to detect them at warp anyway.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-12 09:29pm

The copout answer is that if the Feddies did, then there wouldn't be an episode.

But seriously, whether or not the Imps can detect cloaked ships is moot. If they control the wormhole, they'll have erected some sort of barrier to prevent trespassers, be it a shield like the one protecting the second DS, or a Nightcloak system.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-13 03:09am

I have a theory about impulse exhaust, I've heard the comment a few times about purging the plasma manifolds or something along those lines. I think instead of dumping their exhaust 24th century cloaked ships hold it in until they become to full and have to dump it. James T. Kirk and his missions are famous, in all seriousness how could a Starfleet commander not remember that trick for detecting cloaked vessels, hell it was probably required reading at the academy, unless it no longer applies? Not to mention you only need impulse engines for accelerating, once you've reached your desired speed, except for a few minor burns to compensate for any gravity influence, physics do the rest. Objects in motion stay in motion unless acted on by another force, thus you just make a quick burn on your impulse engines and use thrusters to alter your trajectory which produce considerably less detectable exhaust than impulse engines. Also anything on a cloaked ship that could reveal it's pressence is carefully monitored to ensure that it doesn't reveal them, not just idle speculation but a fact from TNG when Troi posed as a Tal'Shiar officer.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-13 03:15am

Everything Jim lad did is required reading at the academy.

Hes probably the only starfleet captain to face down 2 or 3 gods and use poker to defeat his enemies (they could have won if only they had been to Vegas).

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-13 03:18am

Yeah, I wonder how many times crew members tried to get him to come with them to a casino...

I think my favorite bluff has to be the corbomite manuver, a shame the First Federation, like so many TOS races, were never heard from again, they seemed like real badasses.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-13 03:21am

I read a book about them - they left the area.

However Emperor Kirk came from the Mirror universe to get one of their ships so they must have been as powerfull as they seemed, they defeated the 1701 a ship that could take out the death star without blinking.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-13 03:29am

Yeah I read that series too, that's one idea on it. I like the fact that Shatner is including lots of the forgotten people and updating them, letting us know what he thinks happened to them.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-13 03:34am

Yeah who would have thought he could write and he doesnt kill Scotty off like you would think he would.

IDMR · Post by **IDMR** » 2002-07-13 09:47am

TheDarkling wrote:Yeah thats the thing, the people on the ship can tweak the vessel to about 3000% of what it was designed to do.

You have to wonder what the guys designing the ships do or what the scientist are upto since the crew can do almost anything on the fly.

Either that or Federation Starships have ludicrously low safety lockouts (about an order of magnitude... or two) which can be circumvented manually.

Not that it would do anything for the reputation for their starship designers, of course...

IDMR · Post by **IDMR** » 2002-07-13 09:49am

TheDarkling wrote:Well thats what I thought but I can remember an episode when impulse was down and they went to Warp (probably a mistake on there part) however there must be a way to mask the exhaust or the feds would be able to detect cloaked ships.

Well, they certainly radiate some energy - I rather doubt that the impulse strips glow just because it would look pretty. How much, and would it be detectable, and if so, would it be sufficient for Star Wars (or indeed Star Trek) ships to calculate firing solutions? These are the pertinent questions.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-13 04:02pm

TheDarkling wrote:Hes probably the only starfleet captain to face down 2 or 3 gods and use poker to defeat his enemies (they could have won if only they had been to Vegas).

And some say Star Trek is realistic.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-13 04:05pm

Do they? compared to what?

BenRG · Post by **BenRG** » 2002-07-13 04:24pm

TheDarkling wrote:Do they? compared to what?

Star Wars, oddly enough