ENT: "Azati Prime" [Possible spoilers]

[Jason von Evil]

Wouldn't be surprising, really. They are in the Federation by the 2500s.

[StarshipTitanic]

Wouldn't be surprising, really. They are in the Federation by the 2500s.

It'd be funny for the Federation's flag ship to run on engines build by a species that is regularly painted to be technologically inferior.

[General Zod]

Wouldn't be surprising, really. They are in the Federation by the 2500s.

It'd be funny for the Federation's flag ship to run on engines build by a species that is regularly painted to be technologically inferior.

look at how many incidents we've been shown of federation engines exploding due to poor design or accidents. compare that to how many incidents we've been shown of klingon engines we've seen exploding due to poor design or accidents. the federation naturally (finally) went with a more sound and stable design.

[Admiral_K]

T'Pol's erratic behaviour and growing difficulty in keeping her emotions in check--which may have started out as bad writing-- has now become a story point. Note that she actually lost her temper with Trip and hollared at him; perplexed, he retorted "What is the matter with you?!"

Rumor has it T'pol's psych problems will be explained as a combination of P'Mar's Syndrome--the potentially fatal degenerative brain disorder she contracted as the result of her telepathic rape in "Fusion"--and some sort of drug addiction.

Lets also not forget that she has already had one emotional breakdown in her past. It may be that she has some sort of natural disability in the realm of emotion supression.

[Major Diarrhia]

Lets also not forget that she has already had one emotional breakdown in her past. It may be that she has some sort of natural disability in the realm of emotion supression.

It may just be that she isn't very good at maintaning logic. It makes perfect sence, some people are better at certain things than other, why shoudn't someone be really bad at something too?

[Admiral_K]

Logic is not the absence of emotion. You can be a very logical, and yet emotional person. The key to vulcan philosphy is that they do not let the emotions guide their actions (or so they claim). For instance, if you saw your loved one stuck in the middle of a field of lava, your emotions of fear might dictate that you try to save them. However, logic would tell you that you would only end up killing both of you. Choosing not to try and swim the lava doesn't mean you are "emotionless".

[Jorgasnarova]

I recall a very good Trek novel a few years ago that was set on Vulcan. Realistically, it showed the populace as not being uniform in their acceptance of the logical philosophies of Surak and his followers. Some Vulcans were impassive, others surprisingly demonstrative. Maintaining control of emotions is a relative term.

[Admiral_K]

Oh, and now for a dose of perspective:

Boobyprise review: "Azati Prime"

Yea, but whose perspective?

Some may find his writing funny, but quite frankly he's got no credibility when half the shit he writes about is innaccurate or just plain made up bullshit.

If I made up a site to nitpick the whole out of one particular series I could do it with just about any series you could name.

[RedImperator]

Whetstone is primarily writing a nitpick site, but he's been mostly right about the terrible quality of Enterprise. I don't think his Azati Prime review is going to give anyone much "perspective", though, because at the end he's considering giving it a gold star bonus, which he only gives to the episodes he actually likes.

I'd be curious to see what his reviews would be like seasons 1 and 2 had been any good. He was initially rather gentle with the show--pointing out flaws but not really spraying venom until after "Dear Doctor", the most morally repugnant episode of Star Trek, ever. Coincidentally, that's the episode that made me stop watching.

[apocolypse]

I thought it was a decent episode, but the E-J is one fugly ship. The interior was nice........but ye gods the outside makes my eyes hurt.

[Stofsk]

I'd be curious to see what his reviews would be like seasons 1 and 2 had been any good. He was initially rather gentle with the show--pointing out flaws but not really spraying venom until after "Dear Doctor", the most morally repugnant episode of Star Trek, ever. Coincidentally, that's the episode that made me stop watching.

With me it was "Cogenitor" - I never saw "Dear Doctor," thankfully, and if I had I would have stopped watching Enterprise a lot sooner. I know what happened in it though; that episode is pretty infamous, and with good reason. Even my mother, who liked watching Enterprise and liked Archer as well, gave up watching it after "Cogenitor" - one of the stupidest episodes they did, along with one of the more morally repugnant (whereas "A Night in the Sickbay" was just stupid as opposed to morally wrong).

Christ, I can't believe I actually liked this show at one stage. I had such high hopes, but alas...

[Uraniun235]

Some may find his writing funny, but quite frankly he's got no credibility when half the shit he writes about is innaccurate or just plain made up bullshit.

Care to back that up?

[Admiral_K]

Some may find his writing funny, but quite frankly he's got no credibility when half the shit he writes about is innaccurate or just plain made up bullshit.

Care to back that up?

Absolutely

I'll not only include inaccuracies, but also statemets he makes that are misleading. I'll omit shit that are simply pointless nitpicks.

All quotes below are taken from his website's review of the Azati prime episode

Imzadi Prime? Is this more name dropping passed off as continuity?
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The planet was named Azati Prime. Prime? As in major? As in there's another planet that's a minor planet?

No. There was just the one planet that came into play. I don't get it either.

In the beggining of the episode, T'pol says there is activity around TWO of the inner planets in the system. They hid behind a third planetoid as well. Thats 3 planets right there.

If only we had real writers who could eliminate the plot holes and take the show and its content to its fullest advantage.

Archer could have used his magical spacesuit to leave the Xindi ship with the countdown ticking on the torpedoes, enter the Cell Ship underwater, and haul ass out of there. I'm not saying they should have done that, because I want Archer to die, but I want to know why no one else thought of it.

Not only does he complain about poor writing, but goes so far as to introduce his own idea that would have been absolutely TERRIBLE writing. He assumes that the Suliban cell ship continues to reside on Enterprise, when it is likely in the hands of starfleet engineers on Earth who are reverse engineering everything they can off it.

In fact, T'pol plans to take one of the two Enterprise shuttle pods to try and negotiate with the xindi after Archer gets captured. Trip asks her if they shold just keep sending people out one by one till none are left. T'pol retorts that would be impossible because they only had one more shuttlepod. Obviously the suliban cell ship is not on board Enterprise at this time.

On ''Sliders'' there were aliens who discovered that on every alternate Earth they found, their's was the only one in which their lifeform existed, thus they went around and tried to dominate all alternate Earths. But here Daniels is trying to tell us that the Xindi found an alternate future in which they WERE destroyed, and try to change it as opposed to staying in one of the others where they did just fine? I'm sorry, but I'm lost on this one.

Completely inaccurate. Daniels specifically talks about the SPHERE BUILDER aliens saying that they are the ones who can scan multiple timelines. Daniels actually even states that the Xindi work with the Feds to defeat the sphere builders.

Like the time Braga tried to insist that when the ''Star Trek: First Contact'' Borg Sphere crashed in the North Pole, they changed history and erased everything we know and love. Yeap, he actually said that.

Of course, even though the Xindi are known by Archer's time, they're somehow forgotten for the next several hundred years until Daniels says they join the Federation at a later date. It's right after B&B claim the Romulan Wars happened when Kirk was a child and they relocate the founding of the Federation to a new decade

I honestly don't understand why this is so hard to understand. In the DS9 episode where the defiant goes back to early 21st century earth, and Gabriel Bell dies, that resulted in the death of the Federation. The Borg incident undoubtedly would have had consequences that affect everything. Cochrane's contact with the fed fleet, along with whatever technology was left behind or recovered would definately help speed along the process of weapons development. It would be HARDER to believe that it affected nothing.

Archer is in the future onboard the Enterprise-Jimmy standing in front of a big-ass window with the saucer showing. He briefly glances at the layout on the wall and doesn't even bother to look out the window at the ship's saucer nor does he even bother to care about the other starships he can see as they blast the hell out of Farscape's Moya

Complete unadulterated bullshit. He looks out the window several times. Both before and after the commercial break that comes amid his time on Enterprise J. I gotta wonder if he even SAW this episode.

2245 - Enterprise launched.

2286 - Enterprise A (a refurbished decades old Yorktown) is launched. Timespan from last: 41 years.

2295 - Enterprise B is launched. Timespan from last: 9 years.

2343 (estimate) - Enterprise C is launched. Timespan from last: 48 years.

2363 - Enterprise D is launched. Timespan from last: 20 years.

2372 - Enterprise E is launched. Timespan from last: 9 years.

Six Federation Enterprises, with each launch averaging 25.4 years in between. But yet here we learn that in 400 years in the future, which is about 2554, we surf through Enterprises F, G, H, I and J. The last Next Generation time period we saw was ''Star Trek: Nemesis'', which was in 2380. But using the Enterprise J year (2554) and following it back to the launch of Enterprise E (2372), we come up with 182 years, which divided by ships F, G, H, I and J, means we average 36.4 years, a full 11 years more between launches.

Yeah, I suppose it makes sense that the further into the future you go, the more names you would have you can use on starships other than Enterprise, but also the further into the future you go, the more starships you would need for the still expanding Federation. But the point I'm going to make is this: Enterprise J? How corny can you get?

Oh, wait, here's another point: Why did Daniels tell Archer he was on Enterprise J? Why did Daniels just tell Archer that there would be a plethora of starships named Enterprise repeatedly launched over the next 400 years? Is that really information you want Archer to have in the distant past?

See what I mean about mindless nitpicking? OK of all the Enterprises he mentioned only 2 were not destroyed in battle before they were scheduled to be decommisioned. Thats the Ent-nil (was technically decommisioned before it was destroyed) and the Ent-B. (we don't know about happens to the Ent E). The Ent A was already in service under another name. The Ent C destroyed by Romulands, and the Ent D destroyed in ST:Generations.

When the ship did not go to a premature demise, the next Enterprise was not launched until 40-50 years later. That indicates to me that this is the standard time of service for a starfleet vessel. He complains that the years between enterprises would average 36 years? Well maybe those ships had better luck then the 4 out of the first 6 did.

And finally, his little jab about letting Archer know about the Enterprise J, I meane COME ON as if Archer didn't already know quite enough from his other time travel escipades. Oh well. On to his next "point".

Archer knew that the Xindi would need the humans alive if they're going to survive the Sphere Builders, but yet he doesn't tell the rest of the crew and he doesn't even order them to try to talk to the Xindi even after he dies on his suicide mission? Archer himself admits that the Xindi would probably just build another super weapon. The guy's about to die and he doesn't even give any thought as to what happens NEXT. Except for his dog of course. He tells Phlox that his dog can have some cheese every now and then.

Again, more bullshit. Immediately following his return to enterprise we see him having an in length discussion with t'pol about this very thing. He likely spoke to Trip and possible others about this as well. I'm sure that if they'd had all the time in the world for this episode we'd have seen those conversations.

Lots of continuity. Things from past episodes finally play off here. And the Enterprise is torn to hell in a really cool ending that actually causes me to WANT to see the next episode.

But don't you ever forget that the last time Enterprise sustained ANY battle damage that went beyond one episode, it was all magically repaired in the next episode. After all, the next episode is called ''Damage'' and will acknowledge this battle damage. But an episode after that is called ''E2'' and brings in what sounds like an identical Enterprise.

Reset Button? I think so. And so do you.

No matter how good you think the ending was, always remember that you can do the most dramatic hellraising if you can always push the reset button afterward. It's fun to watch, but does it count? I don't think it's going to.

The guy closes by saying how much he liked the episode and wants to see the next one. He then proceeds to bitch about episodes that haven't even aired yet. Looking at the upcomming episodes the Enterprise actually is working on repairs, mourning their dead, and trying to get on with their mission. So doing repairs and having funerals for lost crewman now is "hitting the reset button"?

The guy has some sort of twisted bitter hatred of the series that prevents him from enjoying it even when they do something right. This absolutely destroys his credibility. Rather than saying "hey this was a pretty good episode, can't really criticize too much", he resorted to the inaccurate criticisms and nitpicks that he posted.

[Burak Gazan]

If "Damage" doesnt open with Xindi bugs and lizardmen doing their version of SW Ep IV Act I Scene III in the corridors, it's gonna take some creative explaining. Because at the conclusion, Ent-X isn't capable of doing anything, except being a crippled, tumbling out of control target drone. So how exactly, we get from there to burying the dead (that didnt get explosively decompressed into the void...) and patching up the ship will be interesting indeed.

[Major Diarrhia]

If "Damage" doesnt open with Xindi bugs and lizardmen doing their version of SW Ep IV Act I Scene III in the corridors, it's gonna take some creative explaining. Because at the conclusion, Ent-X isn't capable of doing anything, except being a crippled, tumbling out of control target drone. So how exactly, we get from there to burying the dead (that didnt get explosively decompressed into the void...) and patching up the ship will be interesting indeed.

If you want to know how it goes down I'll tell but it can pretty much be infered by what goes on at the end of the interogation of "Azati Prime" and earlier references to "She" or "Her".

Spioler
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The Xindi primates, and maybe arborials, come to the NX-01's rescue. They have never really been into the idea of commiting genocide in the first place, especial since it happened to the Xindi avians. Mostly this has to do with what Archer tells them about the sphere builders though. It's obvious that the "She" that they refer to is a sphere builder. If what Archer says is true, then "She" was lieing to them about the destruction of their homeworld (rather, new homeworld) at the hands of the humans in the future.
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Further Spoilage in relation to repairs.
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Archer and Co. make friends with some aliens who help repair the ship, at the very least, they make it space worthy. That doesn't mean combat worthy. That would give them plenty of time to mourn their lost crew memebers. On the other hand, I don't really know, maybe they do fix it totaly, I just doubt that happening. The damage they sustained should litteraly take months to repair properly. Remember how it was supposed to take two weeks at a propper facility to repair that hole the Romulan mine made but the repair station fixed it in two days.
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End Spioler.

[Major Diarrhia]

On ''Sliders'' there were aliens who discovered that on every alternate Earth they found, their's was the only one in which their lifeform existed, thus they went around and tried to dominate all alternate Earths. But here Daniels is trying to tell us that the Xindi found an alternate future in which they WERE destroyed, and try to change it as opposed to staying in one of the others where they did just fine? I'm sorry, but I'm lost on this one.

Completely inaccurate. Daniels specifically talks about the SPHERE BUILDER aliens saying that they are the ones who can scan multiple timelines. Daniels actually even states that the Xindi work with the Feds to defeat the sphere builders.

The real problem is that he assumes that because the Sphere Builders can scan multible time lines and time travel, or so it seems, that they can also shift quantum dimensions, like in sliders. But it was never said that they can shift dimensions, let alone their entire civilization.

Like the time Braga tried to insist that when the ''Star Trek: First Contact'' Borg Sphere crashed in the North Pole, they changed history and erased everything we know and love. Yeap, he actually said that.

Of course, even though the Xindi are known by Archer's time, they're somehow forgotten for the next several hundred years until Daniels says they join the Federation at a later date. It's right after B&B claim the Romulan Wars happened when Kirk was a child and they relocate the founding of the Federation to a new decade

I honestly don't understand why this is so hard to understand. In the DS9 episode where the defiant goes back to early 21st century earth, and Gabriel Bell dies, that resulted in the death of the Federation. The Borg incident undoubtedly would have had consequences that affect everything. Cochrane's contact with the fed fleet, along with whatever technology was left behind or recovered would definately help speed along the process of weapons development. It would be HARDER to believe that it affected nothing.

He's complaining that we never heard of the Xindi before and that the Federation didn't here of the Borg even with the 22nd century contact. After two hundred years, only one contact, and a complete change in government, it is reasonable that that one incident wasn't recalled. But that isn't totaly true, 7 of 9's family had to have some information in order to get interested in the Borg in the first place. That information is the Enterprise Borg incident. He also complains about peaces of sphere falling to Earth, it has some merit as a complaint because the peaces are quite huge. But it isn't totaly outside the realm of possibility that some peaces would have survived. Lastly, the Xindi, I see no problem here, there are 150 different member civilizations, we've heard of only a small fraction. Even with the Xindi close by and becomeing members, it's obvious that they became members some time after the Dominion war. They probably were a minor civilizatoin and stayed neutral.

The guy closes by saying how much he liked the episode and wants to see the next one. He then proceeds to bitch about episodes that haven't even aired yet. Looking at the upcomming episodes the Enterprise actually is working on repairs, mourning their dead, and trying to get on with their mission. So doing repairs and having funerals for lost crewman now is "hitting the reset button"?

The guy has some sort of twisted bitter hatred of the series that prevents him from enjoying it even when they do something right. This absolutely destroys his credibility. Rather than saying "hey this was a pretty good episode, can't really criticize too much", he resorted to the inaccurate criticisms and nitpicks that he posted.

He's sort of jelous that the show uses elements he wants to use in his show, like no transporters and consistent persistent damage, etc. But he sees it as a half assed atempt at it. Some times he really reaches for problems, but with thefirst two seasons that didn't happen much. And when there was a good episode he would say it was good and not really nag on the problems. This one seems an exception.

[Burak Gazan]

So, the primates go from listening to Archie with a lot of skepticism, to "we gotta save at all costs" , and this must take place all off-screen in the hiatus between episodes. Thats a tough sell And the new , never-before encountered aliens just happen to be friendly enough to patch up ( patch? hell, try REBUILD and its more descriptive of the damage) whats left of Ent-X. Maybe if there'd been a hint of these "Illyian's" in the previous 18 episodes, it would be a little less of a leap.
Minor nit I noticed: the mourning the dead doesnt take place until the following week's episode, which makes a lot more sense. However, the week after that, it appears to be more stumbling into subspace anomalies and more time-warp bs

[Admiral_K]

So, the primates go from listening to Archie with a lot of skepticism, to "we gotta save at all costs" , and this must take place all off-screen in the hiatus between episodes. Thats a tough sell And the new , never-before encountered aliens just happen to be friendly enough to patch up ( patch? hell, try REBUILD and its more descriptive of the damage) whats left of Ent-X. Maybe if there'd been a hint of these "Illyian's" in the previous 18 episodes, it would be a little less of a leap.
Minor nit I noticed: the mourning the dead doesnt take place until the following week's episode, which makes a lot more sense. However, the week after that, it appears to be more stumbling into subspace anomalies and more time-warp bs

Geeze can we wait for the episodes to air before you bash them?

[Burak Gazan]

Its not bashing when, after getting to a fairly important point in a story arc, you then have to suddenly blunder off into the bushes on some sort of a bloody snipe hunt. But wth, I'm not running this train, thats up to the crew at Paramount. I hope I'm wrong. Hell, I hope it's got some great stuff. We will all see soon enough.

[Admiral_K]

Its not bashing when, after getting to a fairly important point in a story arc, you then have to suddenly blunder off into the bushes on some sort of a bloody snipe hunt. But wth, I'm not running this train, thats up to the crew at Paramount. I hope I'm wrong. Hell, I hope it's got some great stuff. We will all see soon enough.

wtf are you talking about?

[Major Diarrhia]

So, the primates go from listening to Archie with a lot of skepticism, to "we gotta save at all costs" , and this must take place all off-screen in the hiatus between episodes. Thats a tough sell And the new , never-before encountered aliens just happen to be friendly enough to patch up ( patch? hell, try REBUILD and its more descriptive of the damage) whats left of Ent-X. Maybe if there'd been a hint of these "Illyian's" in the previous 18 episodes, it would be a little less of a leap.
Minor nit I noticed: the mourning the dead doesnt take place until the following week's episode, which makes a lot more sense. However, the week after that, it appears to be more stumbling into subspace anomalies and more time-warp bs

The Primates and Arborials were pissed that the Reptiles and Insectiods didn't keep there promise of the alotted time they said they would have with Archer. The save by the Primates of NX is not them trusting Archer but them being extremely curious and wanting to know everything he has to say.

We don't even know how the repair situation starts, let alone how the other stories go down, it's too early for judgement on any of these episodes.

[Phantasee]

To be honest, I like Ent more then I liked Voy or TNG. DS9 was the best, simply because they had less time travel bs. Ent had that one episode where the Romulan mine blew a hole in the side of the ship. Sure it was all patched up next episode, but at least it wasn't by episodes end. And now, with the big ass kicking by the Xindi, I don't doubt that B&B will have enough sense to make the damage semi-permanent. Sorry if my naive optimism offends you.

[Phantasee]

And no, I haven't seen the new episodes since. I rarely get to watch Ent, due to my schedule conflicting with its show time.(yes, 15 year olds have schedule conflicts:D) And no, I don't consider it important enough to tape.

[JME2]

So, the primates go from listening to Archie with a lot of skepticism, to "we gotta save at all costs" , and this must take place all off-screen in the hiatus between episodes. Thats a tough sell And the new , never-before encountered aliens just happen to be friendly enough to patch up ( patch? hell, try REBUILD and its more descriptive of the damage) whats left of Ent-X. Maybe if there'd been a hint of these "Illyian's" in the previous 18 episodes, it would be a little less of a leap.
Minor nit I noticed: the mourning the dead doesnt take place until the following week's episode, which makes a lot more sense. However, the week after that, it appears to be more stumbling into subspace anomalies and more time-warp bs

The Primates and Arborials were pissed that the Reptiles and Insectiods didn't keep there promise of the alotted time they said they would have with Archer. The save by the Primates of NX is not them trusting Archer but them being extremely curious and wanting to know everything he has to say.

We don't even know how the repair situation starts, let alone how the other stories go down, it's too early for judgement on any of these episodes.

Well it should prove to be an intersting concluding story arc nonethless; I especially like the title of the season finale: 'Zero Hour'.