Twilight: The Xindi Death Star!

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-11-06 01:18am

Darth Wong wrote:It's just like the "Scorpion" blast. The surface heats up while the beam is being fired, it seems to glow from within with lots of surface heating and damage, then it seems to percolate for a moment, and then it abruptly blows up. Unless the beam started at about a millionth of its true power and then suddenly spiked to maximum power right at the moment when the planet blew up (if indeed it was even still firing), this is another one of those goofy Trek chain reactions.

Indeed, the beam stops firing well before the planet explodes. However, there does appear to be a significant DET component (probably just a side effect), as initially the weapon appears to be strictly DET.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-11-06 01:42am

Howedar wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It's just like the "Scorpion" blast. The surface heats up while the beam is being fired, it seems to glow from within with lots of surface heating and damage, then it seems to percolate for a moment, and then it abruptly blows up. Unless the beam started at about a millionth of its true power and then suddenly spiked to maximum power right at the moment when the planet blew up (if indeed it was even still firing), this is another one of those goofy Trek chain reactions.
Indeed, the beam stops firing well before the planet explodes. However, there does appear to be a significant DET component (probably just a side effect), as initially the weapon appears to be strictly DET.

I'm not sure if the beam stops firing. I think we switch to the other side of Earth when we see the explosion. The Doomsphere is nowhere to be seen.

The damage pattern prior to the explosion appears consistent with simply pumping massive amounts of energy into the target, nothing like an NDF type reaction. The final explosion I don't think was all that sudden. We see the crosscrossing of damage all over the surface getting brighter and brighter until the planet starts to shatter along those lines..its nothing like as massive or violent an explosion as the 8472 ships did.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-11-06 01:54am

Publius wrote:In all fairness to Messrs. Berman and Braga, the destruction of Earth may have been used precisely because it is known that no matter what, Earth must survive. The intention may have been to force the audience to anticipate how things would be set arright.

PUBLIUS

You're probably right, unfortunately the only thing more cliche in Sci Fi these days than clones is time travel.

*hits reset button on playstation, hoping to go back in time trhough technobabble to stop Enterprise from its errors and to get it to focus on the Romulan War.*

damn, didnt work.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2003-11-06 01:58am

Chris OFarrell wrote:
Howedar wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It's just like the "Scorpion" blast. The surface heats up while the beam is being fired, it seems to glow from within with lots of surface heating and damage, then it seems to percolate for a moment, and then it abruptly blows up. Unless the beam started at about a millionth of its true power and then suddenly spiked to maximum power right at the moment when the planet blew up (if indeed it was even still firing), this is another one of those goofy Trek chain reactions.
Indeed, the beam stops firing well before the planet explodes. However, there does appear to be a significant DET component (probably just a side effect), as initially the weapon appears to be strictly DET.
I'm not sure if the beam stops firing. I think we switch to the other side of Earth when we see the explosion. The Doomsphere is nowhere to be seen.

The damage pattern prior to the explosion appears consistent with simply pumping massive amounts of energy into the target, nothing like an NDF type reaction. The final explosion I don't think was all that sudden. We see the crosscrossing of damage all over the surface getting brighter and brighter until the planet starts to shatter along those lines..its nothing like as massive or violent an explosion as the 8472 ships did.

No you can just make out South and North America on the left just before it explodes, and the beam was initially into the atlantic. It seems to me that the beam should be visible in that shot if it were still firing, I will try and get some screen caps to demonstrate.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-06 02:05am

A few things:

1. Twilight wasn't written nor directed by B&B.

2. I stand by the belief that Enterprise takes place in an alternate timeline, probably caused by the events of FC. Why else would Earths first major starship be called Enterprise and why wouldn't it look like the ships of the time? I mean, besides B&B's crap.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-06 02:08am

Actually, the planet spends roughly 15 seconds under the beam, before abruptly exploding at roughly 2000 km/s. Sorry, but there is a distinct, abrupt, and massive increase in the energy content of the planet at a point roughly 15 seconds after beam impact. I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that the beam had to be running at about one millionth power for the first 15 seconds.

Moment of impact

Nearly 5 seconds after impact

Nearly 12 seconds after impact

Nearly 14 seconds after impact

Nearly 15 seconds after impact

You honestly can't see how there's an abrupt increase in energy content near the end? Hell, the first third of the beam (even if we accept that it is continuing even at the 15 second mark; a mere supposition on your part) does almost nothing.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2003-11-06 02:56am

Ok Mike beat me to the screen caps, but I have cobbled together some of my own, to show that the geography to me, points to the beam not continuing after the 12 sec mark (by Mike's timing).

Disclaimer: The comments are hastily made, and this is just the general impression i get from the shots, by no means definative. I also recommend looking at these in the context of watching the clip.

I can't think of any other island of that size that looks like that, plus is it me or is florida evident to the right of it.

The shot then moves up along the coast of a continent, which assuming I am right about cuba, is North America, then it fires:

So using this I would put impact in the atlantic ocean.

Then looking at Mike's 12 sec pic, you can see what looks to be (at least to me) North and South America. This is what I see:

That seems to show me, that it is likely that the beam stop somewhere before 12secs after impact, as it is not seen in this shot. However, some me disagree with my interpretation of the geography.

Grand Admiral Ancaris · Post by **Grand Admiral Ancaris** » 2003-11-06 06:10am

Dang. I see you beat me to the punch here. But that is definately North America.

That island north of where the beam strikes is Newfoundland, so that gives us a somewhat better idea of where it struck.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-11-06 09:44am

In the mean time Odyssus shows up with his crew, and their nicely polished shields and reflect the beam back at Berman and Bragga, and then proceed to sack paramount for the worst abuse of Deus Ex Machina since Alexander Dumont.

Ronaldo · Post by **Ronaldo** » 2003-11-06 12:11pm

I enjoyed this episode even though I knew they were going to use the infamous reset button. I actually liked the Battlestar Galactica theme for this week's episode of Enterprise.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-11-06 12:13pm

TheDarkling wrote:OK then here it is Doom Sphere in action it is a 6 MB Mpeg (I could of converted to avi but its 2 am here) and I provide it here for fair use etc *yawn*.

Thank you and goodnight.

Doom Sphere?

Doom Sphere?!

Please tell me that's your nickname for it, Darkling...please...

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-11-06 12:30pm

Wow. In planet-killer terms, that's a slow fucking explosion.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-11-06 12:35pm

They must be really despairate to make such a cheap copy.....

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-11-06 12:44pm

The thing probably ran like a scared little bitch as soon as the beam shut off...

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-11-06 02:05pm

Iceberg wrote:The thing probably ran like a scared little bitch as soon as the beam shut off...

Which would make perfect sense if its shields can't stand up to the debris about to head its way.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-11-06 02:53pm

Kuja wrote: Doom Sphere?

Doom Sphere?!

Please tell me that's your nickname for it, Darkling...please...

Yes, don't worry it isn't the official name or anything.

I sure that will be the "Homicide Sun".

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2003-11-06 04:25pm

Ah yes the Homicide Sun. A battlestation with enough firepower to NDF a planet...

As an aside,

Quite honestly, I don't see why people bitch and cry "rip off" about certain elements of a show being similar to other movies done in the past. Quite frankly, there aren't many "new" ideas out there anymore. Pretty much everything is a re-hash of some earlier idea with a few changes thrown in, so stop bitching ok? All in all this was a very interesting episode and gives the viewer a glimpse of exactly what Enterprise is doing now. Trying to prevent that exact set of circumstances from happening.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-11-06 04:41pm

Audio's out of sync.

Grand Admiral Ancaris · Post by **Grand Admiral Ancaris** » 2003-11-06 05:16pm

Iceberg wrote:Audio's out of sync.

I experience the same problem. Audio is about 5-6 seconds out of sync near the end for me.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-11-06 05:45pm

Iceberg wrote:Audio's out of sync.

Here is a nice divx version then, which is in sync Behold only 3 Meg.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-11-06 05:57pm

Gah... You manage to do that half a minute before I finish downloading.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2003-11-06 06:03pm

This was one freakin sweet episode!!! I simply loved every moment, it just blew me away coming from Enterprise

And to those who feel this was a blantent rip-off of everything from Starwars to sliced bread and raman noodles, if you can't enjoy it, why watch it?

Anywho, while it is very likely this "Doom Sphere" (TM) has a chain-reaction component, for the first 12 seconds or so it was almost certainly largely DET. Why? Because the effects seen were immediate. The chain reaction event did not appear to kick in until significant DET damage had been done. As Darth Wong pointed out, the apparent firepower increase did not occur until ~15 seconds after firing had begun, so unless someone proposes the beam has two or more NDF stages, the initial damage almost has to be DET

Despite this I would give this weapon far less (still very high

) firepower than the DS.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-11-06 07:11pm

To ask a question, while its clear the planets explosion was some kind of chain reaction, why is everyone assuming its NDF? NDF reactions with phasers and what not make matter vanish, not planets explode...

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-11-06 07:25pm

The Silence and I wrote:This was one freakin sweet episode!!! I simply loved every moment, it just blew me away coming from Enterprise And to those who feel this was a blantent rip-off of everything from Starwars to sliced bread and raman noodles, if you can't enjoy it, why watch it?

Because despite it all, I think Enterprise is still much more watchable then Voyager ever was.

As for being a rip-off, I have less of a problem with it taking themes from Memento as being a carbon copy of the far superior DS9 epsiode "The Visitor".

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-11-06 11:39pm

Aya wrote:Yes, it's a ripoff of memento, with the addition of Earth being destroyed, humanity being reduced to 6000 and having to spend the next 12 years living on a barely habitable planet while fearing another attack by the Xindi.

A barely habitable planet doomed to become a barren wasteland inhabited only by burrowing brain bugs and genetically-engineered supermen. You did catch the name of the planet, right?