You vs. the Alpha Quadrant

John Clark · Post by **John Clark** » 2002-07-11 07:28pm

Okay, okay, you're right.

8472 never decided that all life outside of Fluidic Space would be purged. In fact, "The Weak Will Perish" was just something Kes made up... no, wait. She didn't. In fact, those words never came out of any of the characters' mouths.

And then, (even though they never wanted to kill anybody on Voyager) when two or three individuals of species 8472 changed their minds about 1 ship full of humans, naturally ALL of Species 8472 changed their minds about ALL humans.

And of course, it stands to reason that if the Empire showed up, even if 8472 were about to attack, they'd stop and look REAL CLOSE at the markings on their ships, and say to themselves, "Oh, well we don't know these guys. They're okay."

And then, uh... oh, um... oh man, I think the Warsie LSD is starting to wear off...

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-11 07:44pm

8472 never decided that all life outside of Fluidic Space would be purged. In fact, "The Weak Will Perish" was just something Kes made up... no, wait. She didn't. In fact, those words never came out of any of the characters' mouths.

And then, (even though they never wanted to kill anybody on Voyager) when two or three individuals of species 8472 changed their minds about 1 ship full of humans, naturally ALL of Species 8472 changed their minds about ALL humans.

And of course, it stands to reason that if the Empire showed up, even if 8472 were about to attack, they'd stop and look REAL CLOSE at the markings on their ships, and say to themselves, "Oh, well we don't know these guys. They're okay."

And then, uh... oh, um... oh man, I think the Warsie LSD is starting to wear off...

Hey look eveyone a completey useless post!
Gee look he did not Provdie any evidance what so ever of why 8472 would come back why they would want to kill everything and why the heck they would Care about the Empire!
Thanks for shield yet another ray of your Brillant Logic on thes Subject Clark

John Clark · Post by **John Clark** » 2002-07-11 07:49pm

why 8472 would come back why they would want to kill everything and why the heck they would Care about the Empire!

Why they would come back. According to the episode where Chakotay infiltrated their PERFECT SIMULATION OF STARFLEET ACADEMY, it seems pretty clear that they never LEFT. Why they would want to kill everything? You're ignoring evidence. Go watch Scorpion. Why they would care about the Empire? I never said they would. They want to kill EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING.
Is this starting to become clear to you?
EVERYTHING.
Now knock it off with the red herrings, stop ignoring evidence, and come up with a NEW REBUTTAL, because this one was INVALID.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-11 08:07pm

Geee they want to kill everything and they are planing to do that when?
Next Month, Year? Century?
Do they have nothing else better to do?

Last one I'll ask of you and if you answear it I'll conside the point

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-07-11 08:16pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: Debates aren't always the current time are they?

No time was stated in the first post, so it can be assumed it is the current time.

It's never been linked to SW either! THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT UNIVERSES!

There is nothing that proves they are different universes.

Antediluvian wrote:You STILL HAVEN'T PROVED THEY HATE HUMANS!

All S8472 that have met humans hated them.

Why do you keep insisting that S8472 will attack the Empire? The Empire is no threat to them, doesn't know of their existence, and can't reach them. What's the point?

For that matter, why would they even worry about what happens in the Milky
Way anyway? They've got their own universe to think about.

I keep answereing this exact question. They would be concerned that when the Federation is conqured, they would learn of them, and possibly attack.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-11 08:19pm

This is so idiotic its funny

There is nothing that proves they are different universes.

How about the fact one is called the Star Wars UNVIERSE
Not the Star Wars and possibly Star Treck Universe!

All Sci-Fis are in Seperate Universe thats what makes them Sci-Fi!(Thats why we need Wormholes to begin with you blithiering Moron!)

ALL SCI-FI UNVIERSE ARE SEPERATE ALLLLWAAAAAYS
THEY DONT CALL THEM UNVIERSES FOR NOTHING!

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-07-11 08:23pm

Mr Bean wrote: How about the fact one is called the Star Wars UNVIERSE
Not the Star Wars and possibly Star Treck Universe!

All Sci-Fis are in Seperate Universe thats what makes them Sci-Fi!(Thats why we need Wormholes to begin with you blithiering Moron!)

ALL SCI-FI UNVIERSE ARE SEPERATE ALLLLWAAAAAYS
THEY DONT CALL THEM UNVIERSES FOR NOTHING!

Then they need a different connection method than wormholes, which link to the same universe.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-11 08:27pm

Ok then, Inter-dimensional wormhole. Tack on two words and its done. End of fucking story. Its a plot device to get two universes to fight anyway, don't think too much into it.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-12 08:39am

Shadow wrote:
Mr Bean wrote: How about the fact one is called the Star Wars UNVIERSE
Not the Star Wars and possibly Star Treck Universe!

All Sci-Fis are in Seperate Universe thats what makes them Sci-Fi!(Thats why we need Wormholes to begin with you blithiering Moron!)

ALL SCI-FI UNVIERSE ARE SEPERATE ALLLLWAAAAAYS
THEY DONT CALL THEM UNVIERSES FOR NOTHING!
Then they need a different connection method than wormholes, which link to the same universe.

Blah blah blah. Wormhole, interuniversal stargate, whatever.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-12 08:40am

John Clark wrote:Why they would come back. According to the episode where Chakotay infiltrated their PERFECT SIMULATION OF STARFLEET ACADEMY, it seems pretty clear that they never LEFT. Why they would want to kill everything? You're ignoring evidence. Go watch Scorpion. Why they would care about the Empire? I never said they would. They want to kill EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING.
Is this starting to become clear to you?
EVERYTHING.
Now knock it off with the red herrings, stop ignoring evidence, and come up with a NEW REBUTTAL, because this one was INVALID.

And what has 8472 killed huh? All the races in the DQ?
NOTHING
NOTHING
NOTHING
Is this starting to become clear to you?
NOTHING
Ever heard of actions speak louder then words?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-12 08:42am

Shadow wrote:No time was stated in the first post, so it can be assumed it is the current time.

Well it's not. It's before the Dominion War to give the AQ forces well forces

There is nothing that proves they are different universes.

Yes! SW universe created by GL
ST universe created by GR

wrote: All S8472 that have met humans hated them.

Quote!

I keep answereing this exact question. They would be concerned that when the Federation is conqured, they would learn of them, and possibly attack.

Why? They were not concerned about the Dominion!

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-12 11:47am

You bloody idiot, if 8472 had wanted to destroy the Federation, they wouldn't have wasted their sweet time making a silly little simulation in order to infiltrate the academy. They would have gone out and kicked some ass. The fact that they didn't indicates that their primary goal was not destruction.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-12 09:39pm

I agree. The whole point of that simulation was to allow them to infiltrate, and find out if the Federation was planning on hostilities with 8472

User099 · Post by **User099** » 2002-07-13 12:36am

They infiltrated (or tried to) starfleet because they were paranoid starfleet was planning something against them. If a gigantic fleet suddenly bursts int thegalaxy and vomits out untold massive forces, that start taking over the Galaxy I think they're gonna be a little bit uptigt ad probably tr to infiltrate the Empire forces. Who knows after then? If the Borg found a way t fluidic space, then voyager, they might think after that galaxy has been conquered the empire might go after fluid space. But who knows, really, thisis justa debate about the mindset and thinking patterns of 8472. They could sit back and not give a damn, or they could very well help out.
I mean really, iftey thought te Federation, some smal, distant organizationthousands oflightyears away was going to invade so they set up plans to destroy them, whats to stop them from thinking te Empire will or won't?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-13 07:18am

As its been pointed out before even if they do help they are in just as bad a situtaion as normal due to the fact it takes less than 2% of a SD Main Guns to kill one

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-07-13 04:08pm

If the wormhole won't open for another ten years, then what the Imperial forces in the ST galaxy at the time are the only forces they've got. They won't pick fights with 8472 until they've subjugated the rest of of the galaxy. Maybe not even then. So there's a good chance that 8472 will be fine if they leave the Imps alone.

User099 · Post by **User099** » 2002-07-14 12:54am

Mr Bean: Agreed, but 8472 bioships are probably about the size of the MF, and the SDs werent that great at hitting the MF more than a couple times. I think, Imperial massively powerful ships, weapons and whatnot versus very numerous, relatively weakly defended but strongly armed 8472s is a pretty even match. That IS if they ever fought each other in the first place, which seems sort of unlikely, unless the Federation absolutely begged them for help or something. They're sort of an iffy variable in the entire idea of ST vs SW.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-14 04:24am

S8472 Bioships vs ISDs is a pretty even match???? Roflmao!
A single of an ISDs heavy guns puts out 200 gigations!
1 shot 1 dead bioship!

master_yoda · Post by **master_yoda** » 2002-07-14 04:51am

Cpt_Frank wrote:S8472 Bioships vs ISDs is a pretty even match???? Roflmao!
A single of an ISDs heavy guns puts out 200 gigations!
1 shot 1 dead bioship!

How powerful is 200 gigatons really? like what would do to a 2 story house?
or a street?Or,a suburb?

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-14 04:59am

err... 200 gigatons is pretty much if you look at today's nuclear weapons or federation torpedos.

master_yoda · Post by **master_yoda** » 2002-07-14 05:01am

Cpt_Frank wrote:err... 200 gigatons is pretty much if you look at today's nuclear weapons or federation torpedos.

oh..

Cool.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-14 05:05am

I mean, today's most powerful nuclear weapons have around 500 megatons or so, and they're enough to destroy a two storey building.
They're enough to destroy whole cities.
Fed torps have about 64 megatons.
ISD 1 heavy gun 200 gigatons (or better: Acclamator's heavy guns, ISDs probably have even heavier guns).

master_yoda · Post by **master_yoda** » 2002-07-14 05:10am

Cpt_Frank wrote:I mean, today's most powerful nuclear weapons have around 500 megatons or so, and they're enough to destroy a two storey building.
They're enough to destroy whole cities.
Fed torps have about 64 megatons.
ISD 1 heavy gun 200 gigatons (or better: Acclamator's heavy guns, ISDs probably have even heavier guns).

Shit.they are strong.I never thought they were that strong.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-14 07:41am

Verry strong
Thats for Quantum whatever Torps too thats 64 Megatons

Oh and we don't have 500 Megaton nukes Cpt_Frank

Our high end ICBM *Moscow Destroyer weapons are only 85 Megatons

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-14 07:51am

I know I wanted to write 50 megatons for a standard strategic nuke but I couldn't edit my post.