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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I think you have the right idea [R_H]. You're unlikely to see any real difference between 2.66 and 3 GHz or between 2 and 4 GB RAM in gaming. You'd see a difference between 9600 GT and 8800 GTS, but I doubt it would really change the gaming experience much and the price difference is large. I'm running a 9600 GT and it's an amazing card, especially for the price. I run everything on high or max at 1680 x 1050 except Crysis, and even with that, most of the settings are on high.

My current computer is a S754 AMD64 3200+ with an ATI Radeon 9600. A GeForce 9600 is more than enough for my needs. I'd be playing RTSes and the occasional FPS, and with a '360, I'd have more than enough to keep me preoccupied.

Jaevric wrote:Regular Vista or XP only recognizes up to 4 gigabytes of RAM, and from what I understand subtracts the RAM on your GPU from that total. For example, under regular Vista before SP1 my computer displayed as having 2.53 gigabytes of RAM despite having 4 gigabytes installed (running SLI video cards so a lot of GPU RAM). SP1 changed that and Vista displayed my computer as having 4 gigabytes of RAM but still couldn't access all of it.

Vista 64 otoh can actually use up to 16 gigabytes of RAM, assuming the software supports it. So 4 gig + the RAM on your video card is no problem. Anything past 4 gig may not be useful because most software just isn't written to work on more than 4 gigabytes, or at least that's my understanding.

OK. It wouldn't be a big deal if it didn't recognize the 4GB under Vista anyways, since the majority of the time I'd be using Ubuntu, and from what I gather, Linux doesn't have a problem seeing more than 4GB of RAM.

Linux, you'd just install a 64-bit distro. Which would obviously support more RAM.

Gotta agree that it sounds like you're picking out the best parts for your budget; I didn't realize how much of a price difference there was over there.

And keep in mind that my knowledge of RAM and Vista 64 is purely from other parties; I could be wrong.

Ace Pace wrote:Linux, you'd just install a 64-bit distro. Which would obviously support more RAM.

I've heard that even 32-bit distros support 4 or more GB of RAM, not sure if that's the case though

Jaevric wrote:Gotta agree that it sounds like you're picking out the best
parts for your budget; I didn't realize how much of a price difference there was over there.

And keep in mind that my knowledge of RAM and Vista 64 is purely from other parties; I could be wrong.

There is a price difference, but it's especially hefty for RAM. For example, back in Canada I could get 4GB of RAM for 95$. I'd pay at least double that over here.

There's a difference between being able to theoretically use 4+ GB with an OS and actually seeing a performance difference in gaming. Right now the only reason to have 4 GB over 2 is that it's nice to futureproof and it doesn't cost much, but as cheap as an extra 2 GB is now, it'll be even cheaper later when there's actually a benefit. I can't see any point in more than 4 GB for someone who's not running a server or professional workstation.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:There's a difference between being able to theoretically use 4+ GB with an OS and actually seeing a performance difference in gaming. Right now the only reason to have 4 GB over 2 is that it's nice to futureproof and it doesn't cost much, but as cheap as an extra 2 GB is now, it'll be even cheaper later when there's actually a benefit. I can't see any point in more than 4 GB for someone who's not running a server or professional workstation.

If I were to go with 2GB of RAM instead of 4GB, what you suggest I spend those 89CHF on? A better processor? Another HDD?

Like so many others, I'm looking into an upgrade. I've got a several-year-old system (Athlon 64 3200+, GeForce 6800GTS, 1.5GB RAM), and it's just not cutting it anymore.

I don't really have a budget, but I'm generally looking at under $1000. I will not be overclocking or doing third-party cooling solutions.

CPU: E8400 or E8500. The 8500 is faster, but is it worth the extra $100?

GPU: GeForce 9600 SLI. All the reviews show a significant jump over single-card, and the 9600 is pretty cheap. I see a lot of people still recommending the 8800 (thanks to more shaders that MIGHT become used by games more in the future), but it doesn't seem worth the extra $80-100, especially since I'd like to SLI.
My other big video conundrum is just what model. I doubt the 1GB 9600 cards are worth the extra $50. Palit's got some nicely-featured and nicely-reviewed models in their SONIC brand (HDMI, DisplayPort, and S/PDIF), but their vanilla 9600GT is $130 after rebate. Never had anything from Palit before, but I've always liked BFG's lifetime warranty, which Palit doesn't offer.
I currently game at around 1650x1080, since the 6800GTS can't hack 1900x1200 very well.

Mobo: Haven't even started looking at these yet. Any recommendations for SLI?

Monitor: I have a Dell 2405FPW and a Dell 2005FPW. Won't be buying any new ones for a long time. Question, though...does SLI have any troubles with a dual-monitor setup? I game on my 24", and keep my browser and IRC windows and other stuff open on the 20".

RAM: 4GB, 2x2. Won't look at this more closely until I decide on the motherboard.

Audio: ASUS XONAR D2x. May be a later purchase, at $190, but I've seen it rated higher than other cards in Vista.

HDD: I've got 6 of the things in my current computer. May get a new Seagate 250GB SATA drive as a boot drive. I'll move the rest of the drives over.

OS: Vista Ultimate 64-bit (Free! Legitimately! Windows Feedback Panel. ), dual-booting with XP Pro in case something doesn't work.

PSU: 500w-ish. Haven't looked into them yet. Preferably modular.

Case: I'd like a new one, but the Lian-Li PC-V1000b I'm using now is pretty good, and expensive. I'd like something a little smaller, but I don't really want to shell out another $100-200 on a case when I have a perfectly fine one here (even if it doesn't have a built-in reset button).

My mobo and video card recommendation, for SLI, would be EVGA; but I wanted to be able to call as few different companies for tech support as possible if necessary. The terrific EVGA warranty is another factor. I'm running an EVGA 780i motherboard myself, no complaints so far.

I don't think the E8500 is worth $100.00 more than the E8400, especially not if you're trying to keep your rig below $1000.00.

PSU-wise I'd do some research. I think 500 watts would be enough for SLI 9600s, but I'm honestly not an expert; I bought a 750 watt PSU for my new rig just to be on the safe side.

I don't have any advice on cases. I got an Antec 900 and I'm happy with it, but it is definitely a big case.

I've never tried dual monitors.

Quick question: How good are Chieftec powersupplies, are they as good or better than Thermaltake PSUs?

Thanks

Well, I've basically talked myself out of SLI. I wasn't happy with what I was reading about SLI motherboards, and reasoned myself out of the extra $300 it would cost (extra cost of the motherboard and the second card). I'm spending a bit more on a single card now (8800 GTS G92), but it'll still wind up being $220 less. Going with the Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L and an E8400 (considered going to the E8500 since I'm not spending as much now, but benchmarks just don't show $80 worth of improvement), with the EVGA video card. Throw in 4 gigs of Corsair memory, and a new Corsair PSU, and I'm at $722 including shipping.

Speaking of SLI, since I had the money to burn and it's gone down by 20 bucks since I originally upgraded, I've purchased a second 8800GT.

Furthermore, I've finally settled in and gotten all my stuff reinstalled, and I must say it's nice to have an up-to-date PC for once.

I'm making a new computer intended for gaming but not with bleeding edge (and most expensive) parts.

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $94.99

EVGA 512-P3-N801-AR GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - $ 179.99 with mail-in rebate

Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $49.99

GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - $89.99

Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53GHz 3MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - $131.99

Total = $576.95 so far

Can I have a recommendation for a good power source? I already have an ATX case and I can probably find a monitor on my own, though I appreciate any suggestions you guys might give me.

Antec Earthwatts is a good PSU for the money.

Any Seasonic made PSU is good.

Beowulf wrote:Any Seasonic made PSU is good.

True, but some are a lot more expensive than others, and they'll all take what you throw at them, which is why I recommended the least-expensive Earthwatts.

Is this thread still for use or has nobody built a whole machine in 6 weeks?

Anyway, after five and a half years of satisfying performance from my Dell Dimension 8250 (2.8GHz P4, 1GB 1066 Rambus, Radeon 9700), I've finally decided too many games it can't handle are being released, so it's time to set it aside as a secondary machine and get a new one.

This time around I'm not only spending my own money, I'm Dell certified and build a Opti 755 over a lunchbreak. I figured that's good enough of a platform to finally pick out my own hardware and build a PC. I haven't stayed knowledgeable on what's good or works well together, so more than anything I'd like advice and suggestions on what will work well together, especially if it looks like I've missed an important incompatibility.

I'm looking for a decent gaming/photoshop rig that will last at least a year or two before upgrading video & RAM or similar. I handled being out of date pretty well so I'm mostly looking to get a good bang for my buck out of good but not cutting-edge hardware. My budget is looking to be aimed at $1200 without mice, keyboard, and monitor.



So far I have this stuff picked out:

ASUS P5Q-E Motherboard and Intel 2.4GHz Quad-Core. A co-worker reccomended an ASUS board with Intel processor, which was also my intention. The board seems to have a good amount of ports for my needs and good reviews for it and similar models, set at a good price. I might go with a variant depending on what RAM I end up with. The processor looks to be the de facto quad-core on NewEgg, and I'm inclined to spend the extra money over a duo.

Antec mid tower ATX case with 500W PSU. I shopped around for something that would hold everything I could need comfortably, and a power supply with decent wattage that wasn't more expensive than the case. Plus it looks pretty good.

I included a CPU heatsink from the mobo's manufacturer that went with the LGA 775 processor both were made for.

Radeon's 4850 video card is rather new but quite nicely priced for still being competitive. That one seems to have the best pricing and reviews out of all the manufacturers. The 4870 has a slightly faster core clock but for $100 I'd say it isn't worth it. I'll spend the cash on RAM and get a new card when I'm hurting for more than just clock speed.

I have a Seagate 500GB SATA drive and some Samsung drives picked out for my disk-reading needs, but they're not part of my main concerns.



All I got left to pick with confidence is memory and an OS, which I really could use advice. I originally shopped around for some DDR2 1200 models but most of them seemed to have overstated speeds or designed with specific chipsets in mind. I currently have put a pair of 2GB OCZ Reaper 8500 RAM on my wishlist, but beyond being considered 'bargain memory' with tall heatsinks I don't feel very sure about the matter. I've been using 1066 Rambus for most of this decade so all I know is I like fast memory. Depending on what OS I opt for I might go for 8GB if it and 64 bits would give me enough of a performance boost.

No opinion on the OS right now. I need something for gaming, and one of our IT interns said he's using Windows Server 2008 as it's compatible with Vista but lighter on resource use. Even if that's true I wouldn't touch its $700 retail price. Vista might just be the simpler answer in the long run.


To top that all off, my brother is looking to upgrade his 7-year old Dell as well (reason one being WinME is a shrew, reason two being Spore). He doesn't need it for high-end or future games but I'd like to build it around my configuration or something close to it. I was thinking going with less RAM and one of those spiffy Radeon 1950 cards, but I'm open to suggestions of where I can leave out the excess oomph and save him another hundred bucks or so.

Antec mid tower ATX case with 500W PSU. I shopped around for something that would hold everything I could need comfortably, and a power supply with decent wattage that wasn't more expensive than the case. Plus it looks pretty good.

Avoid PSUs that come with cases like the plague. The case itself might be good, but that PSU is probably garbage. Get a low end Antec, Enermax, Thermaltake, near anything thats above $50 I guess.


RAM...get decent DDR2 800mhz RAM. Brand name, and thats it. If you feel you want the last few percent of preformance get 1066mhz RAM. You don't need anything with heatsinks or what not unless you plan to seriously overclock.

No opinion on the OS right now. I need something for gaming, and one of our IT interns said he's using Windows Server 2008 as it's compatible with Vista but lighter on resource use. Even if that's true I wouldn't touch its $700 retail price. Vista might just be the simpler answer in the long run.

Vista is quite fine nowdays. Vista Home Premium is probably your best bet.

Ace, that's actually a good power supply - it's a Seasonic-made 500W PSU.

Also, I would suggest getting the E8400 instead of the Q6600 at this time, since quad-core isn't so useful for the majority of people. As for heatsinks, this Xigmatek HSF was highly rated on Silent PC Review.

As Ace noted, you only need DDR2-800 RAM, and even then only the inexpensive stuff (Transcend is a reasonable brand). Only go higher if you expect to do serious overclocking. RAM is cheap (as usual), so 8GB of RAM is nice to have, along with Vista Home Premium SP1 x64.

Finally, if you're feeling a little adventurous, the vast majority of E8400s overclock to 3.6GHz with little trouble (change your FSB to 400 instead of 333), giving you a rather nice performance boost. No exotic RAM required.

INLINE EDIT: The 4870 is actually considerably faster than the 4850 and has a superior fan/heatsink to boot. While its clockspeed isn't incredibly higher, the RAM used in the -70 is much, much faster.

For your brother's computer, well, Spore isn't going to require much processing power to run. If you need to save on cash, something like this might work:

Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H
AMD Athlon X2 4050e 2.1GHz

Add in 4-8GB of RAM as needed.

phongn wrote:Ace, that's actually a good power supply - it's a Seasonic-made 500W PSU.

Also, I would suggest getting the E8400 instead of the Q6600 at this time, since quad-core isn't so useful for the majority of people. As for heatsinks, this Xigmatek HSF was highly rated on Silent PC Review.

Finally, if you're feeling a little adventurous, the vast majority of E8400s overclock to 3.6GHz with little trouble (change your FSB to 400 instead of 333), giving you a rather nice performance boost.

My bad, I didn't bother to google the name of the PSU and I didn't recognise it off the bat.

I'd actually say the quad is better. Notice how long he kept his last computer? Putting off abit of short term preformance for the next few years of multi-threaded games might be worth it.

Ace Pace wrote:I'd actually say the quad is better. Notice how long he kept his last computer? Putting off abit of short term preformance for the next few years of multi-threaded games might be worth it.

If he overclocks, two 3.6GHz cores are still probably going to beat four 2.4GHz cores, and it'll run cooler to boot. There's also the Q9300, anyways, which is newer and cooler for quad-core.

Actually it appears to include an Antec Earthwatts EA 500 PSU. There's some negative NewEgg reviews that have a rather consistent problem with the PSU and/or grounding on the front panel; the later is known to customer service and apparently fixable, and I'm a little less leery knowing the PSU seems to be a well-priced stand alone model.

I think I'm set on the current CPU; I'll chip in an extra twenty bucks to move into the quad-core realm, but another $70 for some extra megahertz and more efficient cooling is a bit much for what I have in mind. I've never been really keen on overclocking. If I bought something that just begged to be kicked up a notch I might consider it.

The RAM have picked out actually seems to be suited for overclocking, at least according to some it can handle 1200 comfortably. Price seems to be decent, not much more than most 800 brands, but I'm not real up to date on RAM prices. These look good, though. Or for the same price there's Kingston DDR2 800, which is a brand I've been recommended at work.

I'll definitely consider the AMD board and cpu, I hear a lot of people using it for inexpensive machines. I think my bro will appreciate spending 300-400 less than what I'm aiming at.

Utsanomiko wrote:I think I'm set on the current CPU; I'll chip in an extra twenty bucks to move into the quad-core realm, but another $70 for some extra megahertz and more efficient cooling is a bit much for what I have in mind. I've never been really keen on overclocking. If I bought something that just begged to be kicked up a notch I might consider it.

The main reason I suggested the E8400 over the Q6600 is that for now (and probably for the next couple years, still!) the E8400 will be faster for you, more if you overclock. And its base price is cheaper - and you've considered going with an aftermarket heatsink as well. That Xigmatek is a bit more expensive than your Asus one but will perform far, far better (and quieter!)

Or for the same price there's Kingston DDR2 800, which is a brand I've been recommended at work.

Kingston is nice, but it still isn't worth the price premium over the pqi RAM

I'll definitely consider the AMD board and cpu, I hear a lot of people using it for inexpensive machines. I think my bro will appreciate spending 300-400 less than what I'm aiming at.

As an added bonus you can always upgrade to a nice, fast GPU later. But as it is, it'll run games (at low resolutions) and doesn't use much power. You might even get away with being able to passively cool it with something like the Ninja Mini depending on the case. I was futzing around and configured a nice little system if you wanted to take a look (may required NewEgg login)

Well, I've added the PQI RAM, as I can't beat $60 less for a minor speed downgrade.

Turns out my brother's price range was quite a bit closer to what mine is turning out to be, and he's really not keen on jumping down to an AMD. I think I'll leave out the extra RAM and pick up that E8400 Duo.

Anyone got a suggestion for a $50-$90 ATI graphics card? I haven't had luck on browsing NewEgg'a selection, I might just go with an HD 2600XT.

Utsanomiko wrote:Turns out my brother's price range was quite a bit closer to what mine is turning out to be, and he's really not keen on jumping down to an AMD. I think I'll leave out the extra RAM and pick up that E8400 Duo.

Overclock! You know you want to

Anyone got a suggestion for a $50-$90 ATI graphics card? I haven't had luck on browsing NewEgg'a selection, I might just go with an HD 2600XT.

The Radeon 3850 should be in that price range. Excellent performance, not much cash.

Has anyone heard of Dragonforce power supplies? I can't find any information about them nor reviews. They're pretty cheap though, 59.90CHF for the 460W model, 89.90CHF for the 750W.