StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Steve wrote:As in you would border Beowulf as well? If so, we can talk about your WWII and pre-WWII history since I was going to have a landwar with neighbors in that timeframe to account for the long delay in Cascadia putting down the Nipponese Navy.

Entirely possible that I border Tianguo also. I'm still not sure -when- certain things happen... And I'm taking certain liberties with your pseudo-Ottomans...



Anyways, A Brief History of Klavostan Komradistan-


In the 1700s, the stability of the Omnian Empire was rocked by a succession crisis when the old Sultan died. But the silk garrotes did not catch all of the throats of the contenders for the throne, and soon battle lines were drawn between the armies of two half-brothers. After an inconclusive initial series of clashes, one brother looked to the ruin brought to the nation he was fighting to rule, and could not bear to continue it.

Negotiating a cease-fire, he offered to abdicate his claim on the throne in exchange for a grand fleet to take into exile with his army and their families. Gritting his teeth and deciding to win a way through gold instead of blood, the other brother accepted, and the work began, the mood in the nation wary of the two armies beginning to fight again. However, the ceasefire held, and soon the nation sighed in relief as the sails of a thousand ships disappeared over the horizon.

Having knowledge of an untamed continent across the seas, they set out for that land and made it theirs. The first years were rough, but the discipline of the army held for their charismatic Sultan, and the royal treasury was wisely spent on return trips to the mainland for food and vital tools and supplies.

Contact with the natives was not always a gentle process.

Blah blah blah. Land wars with neighbors. Multiple internal rebellions, especially from the descendents of the natives, and stupid succession crises.

1940's/50's, the Monarchy falls, probably due to humiliation in war and other failures.

Communist revolution occurs. Remnants of Klavostani royal family flee to in exile in Omnia, are assassinated over the next few years. Just in case you didn't think we weren't dirty.

Communist government proves surprisingly stable compared to previous history, what with equal treatment for all ethnic groups in Komradistan.

merged Thanas's updated map in. Had to shrink the 'Atlantic' to fit everything without a landbridge to Cascadia.
Added Komradistan as a provisional shape.

Shinn, is that remotely close to what you are planning for the Fuso/Ostrheinland archipelgio? I'm still not sure if you want to be hugging the continent like that or trailing out into the 'pacific'. I guessed the former, purely because of the colony and war, but I really am guessing at the moment

At the moment, the continental plates look like
The Atlantic is pushing apart down the center, with volcanic action forming Arcadia to the north and Isla Aurum to the south. This is driving the small Rheineland plate into the larger Kagaria/OUSCR plate, throwing up the impressive mountain range between them. The last remnants of the ocean plate that used to be between them was squeezed out to the south, cracking off Granadia and pushing it back a little into the Rheineland plate (more mountains at the join, and probably earthquakes).

Where it currently is, the Fuso Archipelago could be the result of the Kagarian/OUSCR plate being pushed north a little by the impact, resulting in a new upwelling zone.
On the other side of the 'Atlantic' the same upwelling that's pushing Rheinland is also pushing the Dreigsond/Casadia plate. This pressure results in the equivalent to the rockies down the centre of the country, and also a subduction zone along Cascadia's coast (much like real life).

The Southern continent could be moving in any direction. There is currently nothing to explain the mountains in Umeria's south. It could theoretically be extended down to the South pole, with the entire area below Omnia/Umeria a horrible mess of a collision zone of mountains, plateaus and glaciers. It'd make the tibetan plateau look homely.



Steve - re coastlines, once the areas are set it's really easy to send the vector file through gimp to generate a nice fractal coastline. It's a pain to edit afterwards though, so I'm leaving it until everything is reasonably settled. I mocked up an example for the latest map.
(likewise for nicer colours, better font, mountain areas, continental plates edges (for drilling/fishing) ect ect). I'm not exactly attached to the blobby nature of the Southern Continent, it was just easy to estimate the area for.

Maddoctor, I think you made Champa bigger relative to Umeria in your latest map iteration, compared to my cartoonish thing I linked to. The problem with that is, canonically Champa is a pretty crowded country (~250 people per square kilometer, which is STILL a lot less than Bangladesh even after you allow for a big bite of the country rendered uninhabitable by a nuclear meltdown). And if we stick to the figures you gave for Champa's size and population, it's physically only around 1/20 of the size Umeria would need to be, in order to be a 'mini-China' scaled down to be in line with Steve's guidelines for national GDP.

You are very much within your rights and standing to make Champa bigger, of course, that goes without saying. I just wanted to point out that this might be an issue- it's a bit odd asserting that your thirty million people are densely crowded in a map of area A, when in fact they'd be rattling around like peas in a tin can in a map of area 5A.

fixed (in the above post)

Sorry about that, must have accidentally hit the scale button when I was editing last night. It actually fits back into the coastline now

Can we talk a little about religion? The original plan was to be muslim, but since that continent doesn't exist, I'm wondering about monothesim. The nature of Omnia makes me wonder if the Emperor is a Sun God to his subjects, and perhaps the Champa have him in the pantheon, but not exclusively (otherwise surely they'd still be vassals of the empire).

I'm also trying to figure out how the Cocaine wars would have impacted the colony that became Champa later. I'm guessing periodic marudiring warbands and a small group of fortified settlers - think the Pale in Ireland.

Honestly, I think Fuso/ostrheinland is supposed to be southeast of the Rheinland/Kagaria landmass.

It is supposed to be on the other side of the planet, so yes, it should be far more in the ocean and far more southeast.

better?



Note: had to move Hawi'i into the southern hemisphere to fit.

Thanas wrote:

Force Lord wrote:And having seen the maps, I still can't decide if Granadia's size should remain the same or if it should be a bit bigger.

Well, I could make it bigger, but it would probably necessitate moving you further to the south.

I don't have any problems with that.

madd0ct0r wrote:Can we talk a little about religion? The original plan was to be muslim, but since that continent doesn't exist, I'm wondering about monothesim. The nature of Omnia makes me wonder if the Emperor is a Sun God to his subjects, and perhaps the Champa have him in the pantheon, but not exclusively (otherwise surely they'd still be vassals of the empire).

Umerian traditional religious beliefs are chuckled at condescendingly but are mostly based on ancestor-worship with a strong astrological tradition as well. The philosophical traditions have fared better, more on them later.

As to other religions: Hinduism is a good fit for anywhere because it's essentially a local pantheon, like the Greek or Norse gods. Islam might very well exist and be a good fit for the Omnian Empire, or at least a template for what kind of religion dominated large stretches of its lands. As a religion it works quite well with pre-industrial empires. Most of its religious strictures focus on keeping society orderly, well-maintained, and prosperous; things only started getting fundamentalist-crazy in historically recent times.

[Details may vary- for example, a religion similar in basic character to classical Islam but revering a sun god, or a dualistic system like the Zoroastrians, or whatever, would work]

Christianity almost certainly exists, I'd think, because there are several characteristically 'European' countries in the milieu and if nothing else they need a past to be looking forward from.

I'm also trying to figure out how the Cocaine wars would have impacted the colony that became Champa later. I'm guessing periodic marudiring warbands and a small group of fortified settlers - think the Pale in Ireland.

Seems credible. The House of Umeria Company of Merchants focused its drug sales on the parts of 'greater Umeria' that had what they wanted in large quantities. That means, say, tea, silver bullion, exotic ceramics and fabrics, and so on.

If those things were to be had in Champa, and selling cocaine to the locals was the most cost-effective way to raise the hard cash to buy them, then you probably had a drug problem at the same time Umeria did.

My intention is that Christianity rose in the lands near Omnia, although possibly an NPC from a territory that Omnia lost at some point. I don't intend to say Omnia never lost conquests, only that she still has a multi-national empire; quite possibly the Rheinland-Britonia conflict and similar wars gave it breathing space in the 20th Century.

Steve wrote:My intention is that Christianity rose in the lands near Omnia, although possibly an NPC from a territory that Omnia lost at some point. I don't intend to say Omnia never lost conquests, only that she still has a multi-national empire; quite possibly the Rheinland-Britonia conflict and similar wars gave it breathing space in the 20th Century.

I would say that Granadia historically had designs on Omnian territory and indeed conquered lands in the Southern Continent that were held for a few centuries. Modern Granadia still owns two small enclaves on the northern coasts of Omnia (think Ceuta and Melilla).

This map ought to give you an impression of the layout of San Dorado.

Clearly it isn't to scale in terms of the size of the river, La Palma is an island quite a ways further off the coast etc... In fact, this is probably what it would look like if you painted the current locations into a terribly crudely drawn map from the 17th century or something. But hey, it gives one something to work with. Right now I'm thinking the initial 20.000+ square kilometers are too large, but that was only ever an indication anyway. Whatever size can uncomfortably fit 51 million people suits me.

Religion-wise San Dorado exalts Tyche Firstborn, the occasionally anthropomorphic, occasionally Elder God-like personification of luck, fate and terrible misfortune. They do this by venerating idols, burning dollar bills or, in the case of some day traders, murdering prostitutes to daub walls with blood sigils glimpsed by staring at flash trading patterns too long and not taking the daily dose of Nepenthe™ that would have staved off the insanity.

I think Fin and PeZook will want some ownership over Christianity as well. I think the Empire would be more interesting if their religion was another form of monotheism. Maybe base it off Yazidi beliefs? Worship of the Peacock Angel and such?

Granadia, now 20% bigger.
http://i.imgur.com/YBs39Lf.jpg

The Omnians worship the Great God Om, revealed to the world by the Holy Prophet Ossory. The Emperors claim descent from Ossory. The Bruthan sect will make an appearance as well, but is considered a Christian-influenced heresy by the main church.

(This entire thing being inspired by "Small Gods" by Terry Pratchett, one of the best Discworld books ever).

Thanas wrote:Granadia, now 20% bigger.
http://i.imgur.com/YBs39Lf.jpg

Looks nice. I accept this.

EDIT: I'll try and add some location names in Granadia via Paint.

madd0ct0r wrote:better?



Note: had to move Hawi'i into the southern hemisphere to fit.

Tianguo is a current placeholder name. I should be bigger, and further south. Should be roughly the where Mexico is. May have to switch me with Komradistan, or have me hanging off there. Also, have a pair of islands stretching to the south from the main land.

I don't like the close proximity of Ostrheinland to the UOCSR. They should be farther away. If it were me, I'd also rotate them so that they are more in a Japan like position.

We're still a little short on landmass for an Earthlike planet. Do we hold out for more players, or start roughing out an NPC continent?

Simon_Jester wrote:We're still a little short on landmass for an Earthlike planet. Do we hold out for more players, or start roughing out an NPC continent?

How about neither of them? NPCs are not really necessary until one needs the proverbial goat everyone can beat up on to feel strong (which I think makes for bad stories) nor do we really need that much of a landmass.

Beowulf wrote:
Tianguo is a current placeholder name. I should be bigger, and further south. Should be roughly the where Mexico is. May have to switch me with Komradistan, or have me hanging off there. Also, have a pair of islands stretching to the south from the main land.

Maybe where he put your nation would work decently for my broken up Republic and break away states, maybe with hudson bay like access to the ocean?

Thanas would hanging the Patron Democracy off Ostrheinland work to separate you from uocsr?

I really don't know where would work best in Umeria to place the presidential republic.

Simon_Jester wrote:We're still a little short on landmass for an Earthlike planet. Do we hold out for more players, or start roughing out an NPC continent?

Well I'm still not on there and I think there are one or two more players who aren't shown yet, so maybe give it a couple more days.

Simon_Jester wrote:We're still a little short on landmass for an Earthlike planet. Do we hold out for more players, or start roughing out an NPC continent?

I still need to be placed. I just don't know where.

Well actually I did but then it got crowded so now I have to reconsider.

Thanas wrote:How about neither of them? NPCs are not really necessary until one needs the proverbial goat everyone can beat up on to feel strong (which I think makes for bad stories) nor do we really need that much of a landmass.

I don't know, I thought both Terra Libertia and Veleria provided lots of fun from the first and second games, respectively.

Granted Veleria was mostly uninhabited so I suppose doesn't count as a "NPC state" since most of that was dicking around with unclaimed territories. Still, they present opportunities that I don't think should be discounted.

if there are any issues with the sizes let me know, this is what looks to be what we have so far save for the southern Eastern Hemisphere Continent.

Well, I'm upside down for some reason...

Was me being silly, and making sure Mideel was properly tropical. Well, that and I thought it looked better that way given it's the southern hemisphere, but I'll rotate it back around unless you think this is cooler too.