More on Terri Schiavo--UPDATE: Schiavo dead 31 Mar 05

[18-Till-I-Die]

As i understand from reading a story on the net about this, her brain is bassically gone. I mean literally gone. Like as in there is a hole where it once was, filled with blood and water.

[Rogue 9]

And from what I'm hearing, there's likely to be a riot from the supporters gathered outside the hospital. Wonderful.

[Jalinth]

And from what I'm hearing, there's likely to be a riot from the supporters gathered outside the hospital. Wonderful.

And enough legal paperwork in the last few days to walk from Florida to the moon on. I pity the courts in these situations - they are basically getting bombarded by motion after motion and by entities they can't simply ignore (the US Congress, the Florida house, etc...) or slap down. They need to at least give token consideration and read these stupid things and figure out how to say "no" for the millionth time.

I wonder if the courts can cite Congress for comtempt of court for obviously trying to circumvent the court orders? A few congressmen in an overcrowded, smelly jail - a good start in my view even if for only a day.

[jegs2]

As i understand from reading a story on the net about this, her brain is bassically gone. I mean literally gone. Like as in there is a hole where it once was, filled with blood and water.

Know it's likely not a matter of public record, but has anyone offered evidence of that?

[SirNitram]

As i understand from reading a story on the net about this, her brain is bassically gone. I mean literally gone. Like as in there is a hole where it once was, filled with blood and water.

Know it's likely not a matter of public record, but has anyone offered evidence of that?

Directly from the report of a neurologist who examined her:

During 1998, she was evaluated by Dr. James Barnhill, neurologist, who testified that he examined her for ten minutes and determined that she had no chance for recovery, and was in a persistent vegetative state. He also identified that her skull was filled with spinal fluid; there was no brain present on the scans. All responses he identified were reported as "reflexes." He obtained no blood pressure nor did anyone else, apparently, on the day of his exam, the closest documented blood pressures being obtained two days earlier and five days later. No tests including Urinary Tract infection evaluations, blood tests, EEGs, evoked potentials, or new CT/MRI exams were ordered.

No brain. Okay? No brain. It's gone. That some level of automatic response is continuing is kinda neat, but that's a bit fucking morbid.

[18-Till-I-Die]

On CNN they're saying her tube's been removed.

[Firefox]

It's morbidly interesting seeing all of the "right-to-life" people coming out to voice their disapproval of the decision, crying that they are there "for Terri", and so on.

Where's a site that has the X-ray scans of her brain cavity? I've seen them once or twice, but haven't been able to locate them.

[Illuminatus Primus]

This is a textbook study in religious fanaticism over science.

[Rogue 9]

Just where would her entire brain disappear to?

[Knife]

I feel sorry for the family, if not a bit worried that they're clinging on like this. It can be healthy to use your braindead daughter as a crutch to not grieve. It must be hard, I know, but damn.

On the flip side, some one was bitching about the 'illicit afair' that Mr. Shivo has had. Apperently he's had some kids with the new chick. Listening to the radio and tv would have one think that he's some sort of an asshole for it. But damn, his wife's been 'dead' for a decade and he's been fighting to let her go for atleast 3-4 years now. Seems he's grieved and wants to move on so I don't fault him.

Congress needs to go back to scrutinizing baseball and let this poor woman die.

[HemlockGrey]

Just where would her entire brain disappear to?

Liquified, perhaps?

I also think it's pretty low how the family and the religious right has gone out of their way to demonize the husband without any real evidence.

[Firefox]

I was under the impression that the spinal fluid simply displaced the brain tissue over time, which disintegrated after dying off.

[Admiral Valdemar]

And she's been like this since 1998?!

Jez-us, what the holy fuck?! They've been keeping a body, sans-brain alive for over 7 YEARS? That I cannot believe.

[Firefox]

This is the United States you're talking about, and Florida in particular. Given the determination her parents have shown, I'm not surprised it's lasted this long.

[Psycho Smiley]

And she's been like this since 1998?!

Jez-us, what the holy fuck?! They've been keeping a body, sans-brain alive for over 7 YEARS? That I cannot believe.

It gets better. That was when the evaluation was done. She's been gone since 1990.

Schiavo suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped because of a chemical imbalance,

So no. Not 7 years. More like 15. And I can believe it. Yay for wingnuts.

[Elfdart]

For once Neal Boortz gets it right:

http://boortz.com/nuze/200503/03182005.html#schiavo

THE RIGHT TO DIE

I think that I am about the only radio talk show host in the nation that thinks that nature should be allowed to take its course and Terri Schiavo should be allowed to die. Expect an absolute media frenzy today as the time approaches for Schiavo's feeding tube to be removed. The demonstrators are already gathering outside of the nursing facility. Republicans in the congress are getting in on the act. Republican Mike Enzi of Wyoming, the chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pension committee, says that he is going to issue a subpoena today to Terri Schiavo ... a subpoena to testify before the committee. This illustrates the absurdity of this situation as nothing else can. Congress will subpoena a woman in a persistent vegetative state to testify. All we need now is for some sort of special arrangement to allow West Virginia's Robert Byrd to question her.

At the center of the Terri Schiavo tragedy is America's anti-abortion movement. Notice, please, the presence of Randall Terry. The fact is that the anti-abortion movement has seized Terri Schiavo ... figuratively kidnapped her .. and they intend to use this woman to further their anti-abortion agenda. They will entomb the soul of Terri Schiavo in her now-useless body as long as it suits their agenda.

The language of those who would continue the imprisonment of Terri Schiavo is odd, if not amusing. She's referred to as disabled, in a coma or just brain damaged. She is not "disabled" in the normal context of the word. Her body is, for all practical purposes, dead ... being kept alive solely through extraordinary artificial means. She's not in a coma. People recover from comas. Her condition is diagnosed as a "persistent vegetative state." There is no medical record of someone recovering from a persistent vegetative state. This is not a state of brain damage. It is, for all practical purposes, brain death.

The absurdities of this case would be funny if they weren't so pathetic. Terri's family said last year that they wanted to take her to the mall, and for other field trips. Of course, those trips never happened; just as Terri will never testify before a congressional committee. We also have the blatant attempts to turn the attention away from Terri's condition and to her husband. His crime? He says, and the courts have agreed, that he is merely carrying out wishes expressed to him by his wife. Listen to the Schiavo family and you will hear that her husband her condition was caused by a beating at the hands of her husband. It wasn't. You'll hear that her husband stands to rack up huge piles of money as soon as Terri dies. He won't.

Now put yourself in this position. You're watching TV with your spouse one night and see a show about someone on life support. You tell your husband or wife that you don't want to ever be in that state, and would they please pull the plug should you ever become incapacitated. However, you don't write it down, and apparently don't tell your parents. Tragedy strikes, and only your spouse knows your true wishes. Should your spouse be ignored in favor of your parents who want to keep you alive at all costs?

Michael Schiavo has turned down $10 million to terminate his rights in this case. He says he just wants to do what Terry wanted. Who's right? Doesn't the spouse come before the parents in any marriage? Time for everybody to write down what their wishes are, so this doesn't happen to you.

I'm sure that there is no shortage of people who think that I'm possessed by some evil spirit. No. I'm just sad that Terri's spirit or soul .. whatever you want to call it ... is trapped in this useless body. Her parents' love has clouded their judgment. This can be understood and excused. What can't be excused is the cruelty of the so-called "right to life" movement that will allow this woman to continue to suffer so long as their own needs are met.

Now, a question. How many of you can honestly say that you would like to be kept alive, for 20, 40, 50 years or more like this? If you wouldn't want this for yourself, why do so many of you work so hard to force this reality on Terri Schiavo? Oh .. I forgot. You're pro-life. Well isn't that special.

There's one more element to the Schiavo case. This is a Florida matter, not a federal matter. The courts of the State of Florida have made their rulings. The U.S. Congress has no role to play here. This is a blatant attempt on the part of the Congress to usurp bona fide state's rights in order to please a particular political constituency.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

I think she should be allowed to die, but I don't agree at all with passive euthanasia, even if it's people in a veggie state. I think it's undignified and it just makes the whole process longer for parents. I would rather active euthanasia be legal.

People worry about respecting the dead, I think they should just get it over with as quickly and humanely as possible without making it look like a circus.

[Admiral Valdemar]

This is simply sickening.

[HemlockGrey]

To me, the most interesting thing about the Schiavo case is that it illustrates in the clearest terms the power that irrational beliefs and ancient phantoms have over people's minds. Thousands of people have mobilized to promote a cause so utterly without value with such fanatacism that they have managed to cause havoc with the judiciary and legislative process over something that is entirely a non-issue. I think this quote from Rapture Ready, delievered without contention, is very telling:

The day Terri dies from this action will be a greater tragedy than 9-11.

See? The conviction of some people that science absolutely MUST be wrong in this case is baffling. I think it's even worse than creationism vs. evolution, because I can see how some people might be swayed by creationist propaganda, false evidence and deceptive arguments. But this is a woman who has no brain and yet it's verging on the point of riots in the fucking street.

[Hamel]

As i understand from reading a story on the net about this, her brain is bassically gone. I mean literally gone. Like as in there is a hole where it once was, filled with blood and water.

Know it's likely not a matter of public record, but has anyone offered evidence of that?

Directly from the report of a neurologist who examined her:

During 1998, she was evaluated by Dr. James Barnhill, neurologist, who testified that he examined her for ten minutes and determined that she had no chance for recovery, and was in a persistent vegetative state. He also identified that her skull was filled with spinal fluid; there was no brain present on the scans. All responses he identified were reported as "reflexes." He obtained no blood pressure nor did anyone else, apparently, on the day of his exam, the closest documented blood pressures being obtained two days earlier and five days later. No tests including Urinary Tract infection evaluations, blood tests, EEGs, evoked potentials, or new CT/MRI exams were ordered.

No brain. Okay? No brain. It's gone. That some level of automatic response is continuing is kinda neat, but that's a bit fucking morbid.

Do you have a link to this report? I've been talking with someone about it and he says Barnhill is a quack if he actually said what he did.

[Firefox]

See? The conviction of some people that science absolutely MUST be wrong in this case is baffling.

You're surprised by this? As you mentioned later, the fact that over half of Americans believe evolution is false should be an indicator that they consider science to be wrong in at least some cases. It's not a stretch to suggest such people believe science is again in this case, as well.

[Jalinth]

Do you have a link to this report? I've been talking with someone about it and he says Barnhill is a quack if he actually said what he did.

Does this person have solid reasons for labelling him a quack just because of what he said? The court decision (see page 4 of this link - PDF
+www.floridasupremecourt.org/decisions/2 ... 04-925.pdf)
talks about CAT scans back in 1996 - two years before Barnhill examined her.

[Rogue 9]

To me, the most interesting thing about the Schiavo case is that it illustrates in the clearest terms the power that irrational beliefs and ancient phantoms have over people's minds. Thousands of people have mobilized to promote a cause so utterly without value with such fanatacism that they have managed to cause havoc with the judiciary and legislative process over something that is entirely a non-issue. I think this quote from Rapture Ready, delievered without contention, is very telling:

The day Terri dies from this action will be a greater tragedy than 9-11.

See? The conviction of some people that science absolutely MUST be wrong in this case is baffling. I think it's even worse than creationism vs. evolution, because I can see how some people might be swayed by creationist propaganda, false evidence and deceptive arguments. But this is a woman who has no brain and yet it's verging on the point of riots in the fucking street.

Watchman?!?

My old adversary, if it's the same one. If you've got the time, check out his profile, see if he's made any threads trying to make a case for Virginia seceding from the Union to form a Christian theocracy.

[Knife]

To me, the most interesting thing about the Schiavo case is that it illustrates in the clearest terms the power that irrational beliefs and ancient phantoms have over people's minds. Thousands of people have mobilized to promote a cause so utterly without value with such fanatacism that they have managed to cause havoc with the judiciary and legislative process over something that is entirely a non-issue. I think this quote from Rapture Ready, delievered without contention, is very telling:

The day Terri dies from this action will be a greater tragedy than 9-11.

See? The conviction of some people that science absolutely MUST be wrong in this case is baffling. I think it's even worse than creationism vs. evolution, because I can see how some people might be swayed by creationist propaganda, false evidence and deceptive arguments. But this is a woman who has no brain and yet it's verging on the point of riots in the fucking street.

Watchman?!?

My old adversary, if it's the same one. If you've got the time, check out his profile, see if he's made any threads trying to make a case for Virginia seceding from the Union to form a Christian theocracy.

OH dear gods, I'm so sorry I read that thread. However, it is comforting in a way that Terry has other brain dead people to keep her company.

[MKSheppard]

I've heard that the judge won't let a MRI be done on her to prove if she's
really brain dead or not; and if you're going to kill someone, don't let them
starve to death; just lethally inject them with an overdose of morphine.