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Stofsk wrote:

wautd wrote:actually, im starting to want to see nemesis just to see how bad it really is

Peculiar.

Have you seen the "synopsis" on the main site? It's Nemesis in 5 mins... and more entertaining. (not to suck up or anything - it actually is pretty funny)

Yeah I read it when Mike first put it up, and honestly it condensed the movie properly...especially Shinzon's description of himself as an effette Parisian model.

Nemesis for sure!
Wong is right on with his comment: the other one sucks, but Nemesis is just about as indiscribably stupid as is imaginable. (or imageable )

Nemesis.

First Contact was bad, but could have been far worse. It had its moments, like some of the battle scenes.

Nemesis sucked big time.

I actually liked first contact!

Nemesis was much more dissapointing than First Contact.

My favourite quote from Lord Wongs synopsis; "Hey, Data. Do you remember your evil brother Lore?, no?, me neither. Let's download your entire memory, much of which is classified Starfleet information, into the brain of this mysterious Soong-type android".

Darth Wong wrote:Both films are stupid beyond belief. However, I would have to say that Nemesis was more offensive. FC shit on continuity and had plot holes galore but it didn't have quite as many "why oh why the fuck don't those idiots do this ..." moments as Nemesis.

PS. Has anyone ever seen a postapocalyptic Earth which was as ordinary-looking as the post-apocalyptic Earth in STFC? Fuck, the campground near my old house looked just like that.

Hell, Oakland at 3 am looks more post-apocalyptic.

While Nemesis was much worse than FC, I'd say that FC was more of a disappointment. With FC, I was expecting it to be the best Trek yet from the previews, and I was something of a Borg fanboi at the time. While it was certainly a decent film, I couldn't help but feel it should have been a lot better.

On the other hand, by the time Nemesis had come out over here, I had seen the second (read: final, as John Logan seriously thought there was no way it could be improved on ) draft script, seen it get some of the worst reviews of that year, witnessed a box-office drop the likes of which had never been seen before, and I expected a disaster. And I got one.

FC was a fun movie, and I enjoyed it.
The interactions between Alfre Woodward and Stewart are one of my favourites.

Nemesis was dull, boring, and uneventful.

First Contact was a great movie. Sure it had some conflicts, but so did all the other movies. Nemesis wasn't a great movie and it had plenty of faults. Reworking some plot elements the movie could have been so much more. Yet even with its faults, Nemesis was a fun movie to watch.

Some movies are great. Some movies are great and also fun to watch. Some movies are just fun to watch.

Schindlers List is a great movie
Terminator 2 is a great and fun movie
Nemesis and Armageddon are fun movies to watch

Great movies are well done and have a good plot and writing to them. Fun movies are mostly turn your brain off and sit back and relax sorts of movies.

The problem with Nemesis being a fun movie is when you try and reconcile it with the rest of Trek. It has just too many faults and conflicts to be a proper Trek movie. TVH is an excelent example of a well done Fun Trek movie. Nemesis is not.

First Contact was a so-so movie. Slightly disappointing because I was hoping for better. All in all, it was ok.

Nemesis was an abortion. Twas the ulitimate in B&B rehash and ripoff with flat characters and mind boggleing stupid plot devices. Almost every thing that happened in that movie, I had to roll my eyes at.

Enigma wrote:

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:Between the two even numbered TNG movies I decided put up the merits to debate. Now I know that many people here find Nemesis to be a huge blemish in Trek, but when I watched it some time back with very low expectataions, I actually liked it better than I did First Contact. In contrast My first viewing of it, I had high expectation and I was somewhat dissapointed. (but enjoyed it overall) So I have to say that I actually liked Nemesis more than First Contact. The premise of FC just made less sense to me. Overall both film were hugely dissapointing, mind you. They will never hold a torch to the TOS films.

My Problems with FC:
-The premise of the Borg trying to stop First Contact made absolutely no sense. or Assimilating Earth in the 21st century.

This would've removed the pesky humans as a threat. But then again so does sending two or more cubes.

Which goes against the Borg objective assimilating technology and people even threats. Eliminating threats isn't their style. Plus there are tons of paradoxes they'd have to deal with. It would have worked better if the Borg just put some technology that could intimately analyze Fed tech and it's evolution through the years thus giving the Borg an easier time in taking down the Feds in the present.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:-Setting:The overused postapocalytic Earth, I thought was poorly done.

In every ST series, Earth was mentioned of having been through WWIII. They couldn't concentrate on the post-apocalyptic Earth since it was mainly irrelevant to the story. It was just a backdrop, no need to delve further into it.

My problem is, that with what material could anybody have made a warp drive with, plus it would have been more believable if it took place in a reconstruction era Earth, but that's me

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:-The Enterprise crew's decision on revealing themselves as time travellers made little sense to me. Plus the subsequent blatant interference with the timeline. IIRC wasn't Lily supposed to have gone up with Cochrane?

With the exception of DS9 (and probably ENT) since when was the preservation of the timeline important to either E-D\E and Voyager?

Well as a time travel movie fan I Heavily criticize lot s of movies

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:-The Beginning of the end for the Borg: Nothing they did in the movie tactically seemed impressive or intelligent. (that's minus Time Travel) The dumbing down of the Borg began here.

I disagree with you there. Voy "Scorpion" was the beginning of the Borg's castration.

Nah! the emasulation began in FC.

Granted, Nemesis was a horrible movie.

But on the other hand, First Contact started off the "Captain Rambo Picard" bullshit.

Frankly, I'm torn.

Out of the two, I was less disappointed by First Contact. Unfortunately, it's like asking which Jamaican Bobsled Team is better. First Contact was riddled with plot holes and whose villains suffered from a serious case of "Now I Will Reveal My Real Plan!"-itis, yet it managed to be better than Nemesis.

It also amused me more. It's funny that the avatar of a race of hive-minded asexual cyborgs is a creepy female robot that is highly sexual in a scary German dundgeon porno kind of way.

First Contact, together with Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country are IMO the only excellent Star Trek movies. STII Wrath of Khan, STIII Search For Spock, STIV The Voyage Home, STV The Final Frontier and ST VII Generations are all good. What about the others? Well, STI is one of the most boring movies I've seen. Insurrection is a terrible, terrible movie, and Nemesis isn't that much better either. It's loaded with continuity errors, bad scripting and horrible acting. The only good thing about it was the marriage between Will Riker and Diarrhea Troi. Oh, sorry I meant Deanna Troi. Don't get me wrong, Marina Sirtis was kind of cute when TNG started, but she was never a good actress. Maybe it was the confines of the role, but it was always: "Captain, I seeeense something". And the rape idea had already been used in the series, so it was a complete rehash. The ARGO vehicle idea must be the worst ever. How come Harry didn't recognize the vehicle as a truck in the '37s since cars obviously is still in use? Continuity error.

First Contact also marked a transition, since the ST movies produced after it uses extremly bad, bad F/X because of the fact that the producers thought ILM was too expensive.

Mange the Swede wrote: . How come Harry didn't recognize the vehicle as a truck in the '37s since cars obviously is still in use?

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Maybe they dont call em cars and trucks instead going how they name things in TNG its cargo carrying land based wheeled vehicle...or passenger carrying wheeled vehicle.

Utilising a hydrocarbon burning powerplant.It is designd for use in areas where a flying vehicle would be more noticed.....speaking of which why didnt they just use the fucking shuttle to LAND near the remains and get away?

Nemesis sucked beyond belief. The only thing that would have made it suck even more was Time Travel. Wait, that was done in FC. But FC didn't suck, in fact I actually enjoyed it. But Nemesis didn't have time travel. But time travel is the single most overused plot device in Trek. Nemesis didn't have it, and it still managed to be the worst Trek movie.

Fuck, I'm confused. I'm going to get myself a beer.

First Contact, together with Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country are IMO the only excellent Star Trek movies. STII Wrath of Khan, STIII Search For Spock, STIV The Voyage Home, STV The Final Frontier and ST VII Generations are all good.

FC better than TWOK? I think not.

Ma Deuce wrote:

First Contact, together with Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country are IMO the only excellent Star Trek movies. STII Wrath of Khan, STIII Search For Spock, STIV The Voyage Home, STV The Final Frontier and ST VII Generations are all good.

FC better than TWOK? I think not.

The odd thing is, even with some of the more lousy movies like III or even V and FC, there were great moments in a over all bad movie. But Nemesis didn't have any 'good' moments let alone 'great' ones.

Mange the Swede wrote:How come Harry didn't recognize the vehicle as a truck in the '37s since cars obviously is still in use? Continuity error.

Now that's funny. It would be like a modern person pointing at a horse and saying "what's that?"

I thought it ending WAS Nemesis best part

Typhonis 1 wrote:I thought it ending WAS Nemesis best part

Nah, even that sucked.

Ma Deuce wrote:

First Contact, together with Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country are IMO the only excellent Star Trek movies. STII Wrath of Khan, STIII Search For Spock, STIV The Voyage Home, STV The Final Frontier and ST VII Generations are all good.

FC better than TWOK? I think not.

Well, perhaps you're right, Ma Deuce. I think the difference between TOS and TNG is that the characters of TOS are likeable. When it comes to TNG, the only character that I thought was good was William Riker. I guess I some people would call me a 'rabid Warsie', but I do enjoy TOS, a miniscule of TNG and some episodes of Voyager. Some aspects of Star Trek, and which appear in FC, annoys me. The socialist crap that are being pulled in TNG returns in FC. I wouldn't call it communism as Mike does, but rather socialism. I don't like that aspect of TNG as well. Voyager was better than TNG with stronger characters (well, apart from Kes). I will concur that TWOK is better than FC in some respects, but worse in others. FC has more action and better villains. I was never fond of Khan. While the Borg changed too dramatically, they became a better villain than all the others that originated from TNG and DS9, the Cardassians, Dominion, Ferengi and others.

You don't like Kahn, yet you think FC had better villains? Wow, I... don't know what to think. My god, a tinplated zombie whore with nifty lipstick and wearing a bondage outfit beats Kahn, a guy who gets off putting brain-eating worms into people's ears.

Ok, you have your opinion and that's fair - just a question about Riker though, why do you like him? Explain that one to me.

This is a hard one. I used to love Star Trek with a passion then the TNG movies came and began to kill my love for the show. FC began the rot but Nem killed what little respect i had for the series.

Darth Wong wrote:

Mange the Swede wrote:How come Harry didn't recognize the vehicle as a truck in the '37s since cars obviously is still in use? Continuity error.

Now that's funny. It would be like a modern person pointing at a horse and saying "what's that?"

That is correct. A car is such an important artifact from humanity's past that Harry should have known about it.