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Uraniun235 wrote:

ggs wrote:And it really shows.

It comes across as the E-D being like a travelling city.

I think that's what he wanted. Not that it's a good thing, just that I don't think that was unintentional.

In the Sci-Fi Story I am writing I have designed a massive ship that is sort of a mobile spacestation.
Planetary Defense Craft

It has civilians on board but they are there to man and operate the factories built into the ship to alow it to set up a planetary defense nets and light warships.

Here are the Crew Stats:
Crew: 8000
Troops: 4000
Pilots: 3615
Technitions: 800
Sk. Crew: 2000
Civilian Population: 1000

The ship is only armed with defensive weapons(454 120 GWatts Heavy Particle Turrets) but has a masive starfighter force(5 Mega-Spacewolf Fighters, 100 Spacewolf Fighters, 60 Micro-Spacewolf Fighters, 30 Scout Spacewolf Fighters, 300 Attack Shuttles). If anti-capitol work is required it has 500 80 Gton Heavy Missile Tubes or would have a battleship to back it up. It is the only ship I have that would serve in combat that has civilians onboard. But as you can see the Civilians are far outnumbered by the military personel and they are mainly workers. The E-D is the other way around, THE CIVILANS outnumber the starfleet personel

Er, I thought that the Starfleet crew of the E-D was about 650 or so personnel. (Which is ridiculously undermanned, I mean the fricken E-nil had a crew of 400 or so!)

Uraniun235 wrote:Er, I thought that the Starfleet crew of the E-D was about 650 or so personnel. (Which is ridiculously undermanned, I mean the fricken E-nil had a crew of 400 or so!)

That is 1014 and can mave up to 15,000 passengers for evacuation purposes! It appears that the ship required about the same number of crewman to operate as the Full compliment of the E-nil since they have multiple watches and still have half of the 1000 some odd people are passengers! !5,000 passengers for evacuations WOW that is alot of empty space!

Either that or the evac limit includes the holodecks making bunkrooms. Ever think of that?

Rogue 9 wrote:Either that or the evac limit includes the holodecks making bunkrooms. Ever think of that?

The Holo deck isn't that big you know. When the illusion is off it looks rather small. They could put some in there but how many of these holodeck rooms are there? How many bunks can you comfortbly fit in this area? That still leave much of the ship as empty space or they are sleeping the the hallways

How big was that one group of people they were trying to move world to world without violating the Prime Directive? They used the holodeck then. And the holodeck lets you get pretty far spread apart, farther than the walls.

Rogue 9 wrote:How big was that one group of people they were trying to move world to world without violating the Prime Directive? They used the holodeck then. And the holodeck lets you get pretty far spread apart, farther than the walls.

OIf course that was a specially designed ship that was all Holodeck. BTW if you have use such tricks to avoid breaking the prime directive... What does that say about the operation in question

Back on topic. I agree the holodeck has alot of strange effects that are hard to explain. Imagine getting lost in there

I used my ship as an example of how a ship with civilians would be. The civilians are there to perform some job. On the The Enterprise they are there "just because."

Isolder74 wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:Er, I thought that the Starfleet crew of the E-D was about 650 or so personnel. (Which is ridiculously undermanned, I mean the fricken E-nil had a crew of 400 or so!)

That is 1014 and can mave up to 15,000 passengers for evacuation purposes! It appears that the ship required about the same number of crewman to operate as the Full compliment of the E-nil since they have multiple watches and still have half of the 1000 some odd people are passengers! !5,000 passengers for evacuations WOW that is alot of empty space!

What I meant was that the Starfleet personnel (i.e. NON-civilians) totalled ~650 people out of the ~1000 total.

Uraniun235 wrote:What I meant was that the Starfleet personnel (i.e. NON-civilians) totalled ~650 people out of the ~1000 total.

Sorry I thought Starfleet implied the crew itself

Isolder74 wrote:OIf course that was a specially designed ship that was all Holodeck. BTW if you have use such tricks to avoid breaking the prime directive... What does that say about the operation in question

Actually it was the E-D's holodeck. Worf's brother (?) beams a whole group of people to the holodeck, in order so they can move them to save their world from destruction. The holoodeck (of course), starts to break down, and one person finds their way out onto the ship.

Sharp-kun wrote:

Isolder74 wrote:OIf course that was a specially designed ship that was all Holodeck. BTW if you have use such tricks to avoid breaking the prime directive... What does that say about the operation in question

Actually it was the E-D's holodeck. Worf's brother (?) beams a whole group of people to the holodeck, in order so they can move them to save their world from destruction. The holoodeck (of course), starts to break down, and one person finds their way out onto the ship.

Sorry I was thinking Inserection

Now that you mention it, that episode does have some freaky interactions with the holodeck environment. We know that you're limited to the confines of the room itself, but it looks like the computer can somehow isolate people from each other within the confines of simulation. So, concievably, it looks like you could have people standing shoulder to shoulder in the room, but once the program starts, they'd be able to seemingly walk away from each other and out of range of physical contact without physically moving an inch.

Did that make sense, or did I just confuse everyone?

But that does not mean you could fit a person between them.

I thought that the kid who got poisoned in Brothers got so poisoned on a planetary surface, and the arcade in question was an example of the old meaning of the word, not the video game kind. I figured they were running around in some ruins, the kid's brother played a tasteless prank, he panicked and ran off into an area where some deadly fruit-bearing plant grew, which he ate because he's a nitwit. I would not be surprised if they actually had a video arcade aboard, or could replicate one on the Holodeck. I would not be surprised also if the arboretum had poisonous plants in it, because this is Starfleet, which considers having kids on starships or running around unsupervised on planetary surfaces to be a good idea. What really floors me about Brothers is that they turned around a whole Galaxy-class ship and flew to a starbase to help one little kid who should be winning the Darwin Award. Couldn't they stick him in stasis and fly him and a doctor there in a shuttle?

CDiehl wrote:What really floors me about Brothers is that they turned around a whole Galaxy-class ship and flew to a starbase to help one little kid who should be winning the Darwin Award. Couldn't they stick him in stasis and fly him and a doctor there in a shuttle?

For some reason, they apparently don't have mobile stasis chambers or freezers to put critically ill people in suspension (even though they did have this capability in season 2's "Unnatural Selection"), nor it seems do they have the capacity to analyse and brew up a cure for strange diseases in the field despite all the science labs they have on board that cruise liner. And flying the kid in a stasis/freezer casket to a starbase was out because it would have made sense.

Basically, you can spot the hallmarks of fundamentally bad writing in this scenario. This was yet another situation where, in order to manufacture the artificial danger, they had to A) ignore the implied capabilities of the starship which would be required to prevent such a situation arising where they have to cancel a critical mission simply to fly one person to a hospital and B) make our heroes deliberately dumb so that nobody thinks of a logical alternative so as to have the artificial danger as a plot-device.

Howedar wrote:What's wrong with an arcade? It takes up little space, it allows the crew to relax, and it's not so dangerously volatile as a holodeck. I'm sure the USN has a few video games on the carriers and things.

No. But we do have TVs all over the place, and people bring their PS2s onboard. Hook it up and you can play a game or watch a movie.

Except the movie playing part never works right. It always ends up showing either porn, or the same 5 minutes of "Wild Things" over and over again. Odd, no?

I think the arcade is an acceptable way to get some of the stir-crazy feelings of long ship journeys away. I think VR systems are considered for trips to Mars and long-term space station stays in some early concepts.

Ender wrote:Except the movie playing part never works right. It always ends up showing either porn, or the same 5 minutes of "Wild Things" over and over again. Odd, no?

I had this same problem with one of my ex's DVD players. Except I'd get blowjobs during those 5 minutes of "Wild Things." Silly factory malfunctions.

Aya wrote:Related question: Who designed the war galaxy and is there any canon info on it?

Well there is this site, http://echelon.0catch.com/ . It's pretty good even though it hasn't been worked on in forever.

The USS Gettysburg in REAL LIFE has a fucking McDonalds on board, so lets not get pissed about an arcade on a GCS.

Guys, the whole incident DID NOT TAKE PLACE ON THE ENTERPRISE!!!!

Want to know why? Because afterwards, the kid RAN INTO THE FUCKING WOODS AND ATE A POISONOUS PLANT! Unless the Ent-D has a forest aboard, I'm fairly certain they were on a planet.

The Enterprise does have an arboretum.

Uraniun235 wrote:The Enterprise does have an arboretum.

Dude, aparently he ran off and got lost for hours, which is why he ate the damn plant to begin with. I really don't think he was lost in the Ent-D's arboretum.

kojikun wrote:The USS Gettysburg in REAL LIFE has a fucking McDonalds on board, so lets not get pissed about an arcade on a GCS.

I call Bullshit. I'm on the Bunker Hill and it's cramped as it is. There is no fucking way they could put a McDonalds on board. There is no fucking space for it, anywhere.

We have a small "Library" with a few networked computers exclusively for games...but that's just as often used for meetings and Captain's Mast.

The Kernel wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:The Enterprise does have an arboretum.

Dude, aparently he ran off and got lost for hours, which is why he ate the damn plant to begin with. I really don't think he was lost in the Ent-D's arboretum.

Well, if I'm right about which windows are those of the arboretum's, then it's a pretty big arboretum.