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Spanky The Dolphin wrote:*wonders if Earth had the option of a Mu Project, too...*

But wouldn't this raise R'lyeh from the ocean floor and therefore unleash the wrath of Great Cthulhu and his starspawn upon the population of an unsuspecting Earth???

Now the big question isn't how, but why?

Maybe to solve overpopulation?

Earth has shitloads of colonies, how can Earth still be overpopulated?

Maybe they intend to make Atlantis the new location of Starfleet Command, having a whole continent to play with to add fortifications and what-not to?

Aya wrote:Earth has shitloads of colonies, how can Earth still be overpopulated?

Not to mention the fact that everybody died in World War III.

Simon: There's more to life than Lovecraft and Greys, you know...

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Aya wrote:Earth has shitloads of colonies, how can Earth still be overpopulated?

Not to mention the fact that everybody died in World War III.

Six hundred million, according to Riker in First Contact. And this is three hundred years later - how much would the population increase in that time, if we don't account for offworld colonization?

There are two estimates to be made here - how much the population might increase between now and World War III, then after you subtract 600 million from that, how much would it increase over the 300 years between WW3 and TNG?

Either way, I can't see a reason for the continent-fabrication project. It seems simpler to open up more travel between Earth and the moon or Mars or Alpha Centauri, if the question is population growth.

Maybe they're not doing it for any reason other than to show everybody that they can. What was the reason for sending men to the moon, after all?

RedImperator wrote:Maybe they're not doing it for any reason other than to show everybody that they can. What was the reason for sending men to the moon, after all?

And what is the reason Romulan Warbirds are so big, for that matter?

Simon H.Johansen wrote:

RedImperator wrote:Maybe they're not doing it for any reason other than to show everybody that they can. What was the reason for sending men to the moon, after all?

And what is the reason Romulan Warbirds are so big, for that matter?

Yeah, there's really no other excuse for all that open space. It's not like they're still using Vulcan ring nacelles.

RedImperator wrote:Maybe they're not doing it for any reason other than to show everybody that they can. What was the reason for sending men to the moon, after all?

sending men to the moon didn't risk the complete fucking up of the planet though. you cant expect to raise an entire continent without something going inredibly wrong at some point. At the very least they could try in on an unihabited world or something first.

Darth Fanboy wrote:

RedImperator wrote:Maybe they're not doing it for any reason other than to show everybody that they can. What was the reason for sending men to the moon, after all?

sending men to the moon didn't risk the complete fucking up of the planet though. you cant expect to raise an entire continent without something going inredibly wrong at some point. At the very least they could try in on an unihabited world or something first.

Are you kidding? This is the Federation —whose "scientists" apparently have no qualms about doing dumbshit things like, say, aiming a potentially destructive energy-wave at an inhabited colony world.

Darth Fanboy wrote:
sending men to the moon didn't risk the complete fucking up of the planet though. you cant expect to raise an entire continent without something going inredibly wrong at some point. At the very least they could try in on an unihabited world or something first.

This raises a question - how many planets with seas and land in the Federation are uninhabited?? I know that far from all UFP planets are inhabited with Fed. member species... but how many of these are that similar to Earth?

Darth Fanboy wrote:

RedImperator wrote:Maybe they're not doing it for any reason other than to show everybody that they can. What was the reason for sending men to the moon, after all?

sending men to the moon didn't risk the complete fucking up of the planet though. you cant expect to raise an entire continent without something going inredibly wrong at some point. At the very least they could try in on an unihabited world or something first.

Perhaps they have with their terraforming operations on other planets. Or maybe, as Patrick suggested, this is more irresponsibility and criminal stupidity from Federation scientists. At any rate, the project seemed not to be going very well, and I imagine it was dropped once the Dominion War broke out.

I found a picture of the Atlantis Project at EAS. Quite interesting.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/galle ... lantis.jpg

Aya wrote:I found a picture of the Atlantis Project at EAS. Quite interesting.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/galle ... lantis.jpg

That doesn't make much sense. That puts it right smak dab in the middle of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge! Don't Star Trek writer do any research? Raising any form of atrificial continent there would cause all kinds of natural problems. BTW that map proves The Xindi didn't destroy Florida because it is still there in that map!

Isolder74 wrote:

Aya wrote:I found a picture of the Atlantis Project at EAS. Quite interesting.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/galle ... lantis.jpg

That doesn't make much sense. That puts it right smak dab in the middle of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge!

Told ya so.

Don't Star Trek writers do any research? Raising any form of atrificial continent there would cause all kinds of natural problems.

Research? For writing Trek? Surely you jest.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Aya wrote:Earth has shitloads of colonies, how can Earth still be overpopulated?

Not to mention the fact that everybody died in World War III.

Simon: There's more to life than Lovecraft and Greys, you know...

There's more to life than making snide comments at people, you know.

"Everyone" dying in WWIII is anything but a "fact." Last time I checked, 600 million dead is 10% of today's population, never mind that in 50 years, or the population, you know, GROWING in the 300 years after WWIII to TNG.

While coloney worlds may reduce the population, a good number of colonies seen in ST aren't heavily populated, and Earth may be a more desirable place to live then starting a new life lightyears away, especially since it is concidered to be a paradise by most.

Of course, when we've seen Earth it doesn't look very crowded and it's easily possible the population has mostly stabilized (as with several 1st world countries today). Of course the population of Earth may have started to increase a lot during TNG causing them to seek out more room, but that's probably unlikely. This 'Atlantis' may be just for even more room which people always desire. Or, as people have suggested in this thread, the Federation may be trying to move people onto it in order to restore natural environments, which I can see them doing.

The Eugenics wars would also have reduced the population before that. Then we have possible federation birth control.

NecronLord wrote:The Eugenics wars would also have reduced the population before that. Then we have possible federation birth control.

How large scale were these wars (I've last seen Space Seed years ago)? I've heard everything from half the planet devestated to it being a secret spy war. At the very least, a Voyager episode which I will attempt to locate the name shows Janeway's great-grandmother or something in 2000 and civilization is intact or rebuilt enough to undertake IIRC a big dome project thing which includes rebuilding an old city into uber-newness..

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote: How large scale were these wars (I've last seen Space Seed years ago)? I've heard everything from half the planet devestated to it being a secret spy war. At the very least, a Voyager episode which I will attempt to locate the name shows Janeway's great-grandmother or something in 2000 and civilization is intact or rebuilt enough to undertake IIRC a big dome project thing which includes rebuilding an old city into uber-newness..

Continuity editiation. Kirk and crew seem to think he was a genocidal loon who massacred vast numbers IIRC.

TNG plus (When it was looking fairly unlikely IRL) seem to think that it was fairly minor and not worth metnioning again.

The secret war thing, while good and interesting, is from a pair of books on Kahn, which are of course, non canon.

NecronLord wrote: Continuity editiation. Kirk and crew seem to think he was a genocidal loon who massacred vast numbers IIRC.

Why would Kirk then just let him go? Still, murdering millions would make him a contender against Hitler but still not a huge population drop. It could be possible the war was contained in somewhere like the Middle East or other parts of Asia, Africa, or even Europe without seriously effecting NA.

TNG plus (When it was looking fairly unlikely IRL) seem to think that it was fairly minor and not worth metnioning again.

Well DS9 established he made enough of an impact he is still fairly well known and caused anti-genetic engineering laws to be passed.

The secret war thing, while good and interesting, is from a pair of books on Kahn, which are of course, non canon.

Probably an attempt by writers to rationalize the fact no big war happened in the 90s

Publius wrote:

Patrick Degan wrote:The project was one to raise the sunken continent from the floor of the Atlantic, which means TNG subscribed to the Theory of Atlantis. Apparently, in Picard's time, Earth's planetary cartography was drafted by a descendant of Charles Berlitz.

That's rather interesting, in light of the "pre-Minoan ruins" discovered on the bottom of the former Mediterranean Sea when the Mediterranean Alliance dammed the Strait of Gibraltar in the XX century (ref. The Motion Picture); although the location is definitely wrong (Plato's Timaeus dialogue is quite clear that Atlantis was an island larger than Libya and Asia combined located beyond the Pillars of Heracles), this is more in keeping with recent scholarly beliefs that the legend derives from the cataclysmic destruction of Thera in the Aegean Sea.

PUBLIUS

There are some theories that the 'Pillars of Heracles' refers not to the Strait of Gibraltar, but to the Strait of Istar (if that's the right name for them) at Istanbul, Turkey. Another theory places the 'Pillars' where the Medterranean meets the Aegæn.
Either would put Atlantis in the Aegæn Sea, in the right area for Thera and the Minoans.

As for the size of Atlantis ... there's always such a thing as 'poetic liscense'. After all, which is more impressive: a small island sinking, or a great continent?
Of course, my mind reads over "Larger than Libya and Asia" and ponders how large that area would have been, to the Ancients. How much of Asia did the Greeks know about, and how much of Libya was mapped?
Of course, this is just my mind attempting to find explainations.

What a stupid place to plop a continent. How much water would such a thing displace, anyway?