Dutch VS T-1000

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Didn't the Ultimate Edition show that the T-1000 could suffer damage from too much small arms fire?

No. He suffered damage from being frozen. His feet were partially mimicking the floor.

Though repeated shotgun blasts can knock him down (Galleria) and one every few seconds stops him from reforming (Steel Factory) and 5.56mm fire at close range can stop him briefly (truck).

[mauldooku]

Didn't the Ultimate Edition show that the T-1000 could suffer damage from too much small arms fire?

No. He suffered damage from being frozen. His feet were partially mimicking the floor.

Though repeated shotgun blasts can knock him down (Galleria) and one every few seconds stops him from reforming (Steel Factory) and 5.56mm fire at close range can stop him briefly (truck).

I've always thought the damage from being frozen was a bit more extensive than the 'extremities mimicing floor' bit....the T-1000's cognitive abilities seem to have taken a hit too. A few examples:

1. Why did the T-1000 walk...slowly...menacingly...towards our heroes (giving them time to get away) after reforming?

2. Why did the T-1000, after handing the T-800 its ass on a plate, IGNORE the weapons the T-800 had? He could've easily terminated John with either.

3. Why did the T-1000, after apprehending/torturing Sarah Connor, LET HER LIVE?! On top of that, why did the T-1000 let her keep the shotgun?

[Drooling Iguana]

The T-1000 has the unique advantage of being able to assassinate a member of the team, then inflitrate the team under the guise of the dead member.

It would be tactically unwise for the T-1000 to attack the team in the manner that they are most able to defend against.

It is possible to detect a Terminator, even a liquid metal one using camouflage. Dogs do it, so there must be some giveaway.

[mauldooku]

The T-1000 has the unique advantage of being able to assassinate a member of the team, then inflitrate the team under the guise of the dead member.

It would be tactically unwise for the T-1000 to attack the team in the manner that they are most able to defend against.

It is possible to detect a Terminator, even a liquid metal one using camouflage. Dogs do it, so there must be some giveaway.

Does the team have any dogs? The giveaway appears to be something undetectable by humans-someone suggested slightly incorrect pherenomes which dogs, with their more powerful noses, can detect.

[Omega-13]

1. Why did the T-1000 walk...slowly...menacingly...towards our heroes (giving them time to get away) after reforming?

So the story could go on, and the movie a bit longer, if he ran after them, he would have killed all three of them.

2. Why did the T-1000, after handing the T-800 its ass on a plate, IGNORE the weapons the T-800 had? He could've easily terminated John with either.

See above, sometimes we have to realize that the quality of the story could be in jeapardy if these things are done,

3. Why did the T-1000, after apprehending/torturing Sarah Connor, LET HER LIVE?! On top of that, why did the T-1000 let her keep the shotgun?

He was just about to kill her when he got hit with the steel poll from the T-800

[FOG3]

Well lets see thermite is rust and powdered aluminum the rust is easy enough to get ahold of they just need to find the other ingredient. Dutch's group seems elite enough to know how to make such things, so they could probably make it in the field if necessary.

[mauldooku]

1. Why did the T-1000 walk...slowly...menacingly...towards our heroes (giving them time to get away) after reforming?

So the story could go on, and the movie a bit longer, if he ran after them, he would have killed all three of them.

2. Why did the T-1000, after handing the T-800 its ass on a plate, IGNORE the weapons the T-800 had? He could've easily terminated John with either.

See above, sometimes we have to realize that the quality of the story could be in jeapardy if these things are done,

3. Why did the T-1000, after apprehending/torturing Sarah Connor, LET HER LIVE?! On top of that, why did the T-1000 let her keep the shotgun?

He was just about to kill her when he got hit with the steel poll from the T-800

Well, for 1 and 2, although that may be the perception of most of the viewing audience (save for us geeks), suspension of disbelief means you can't argue that.

For 3..ah yes, I had forgotten. However, why didn't the T-1000 kill Sarah after shoving the metal pole through Ah-nuld? I guess, maybe, it decided that offing John was more important...but it's still stupid to leave a non-incapacitiated enemy with a weapon which could kill you alive...

[Rye]

For 3..ah yes, I had forgotten. However, why didn't the T-1000 kill Sarah after shoving the metal pole through Ah-nuld? I guess, maybe, it decided that offing John was more important...but it's still stupid to leave a non-incapacitiated enemy with a weapon which could kill you alive...

I think it's best to chalk stupid things like that up to the t1000 glitching...perhaps his operational time was running out and he had to kill john urgently or something..

[mauldooku]

For 3..ah yes, I had forgotten. However, why didn't the T-1000 kill Sarah after shoving the metal pole through Ah-nuld? I guess, maybe, it decided that offing John was more important...but it's still stupid to leave a non-incapacitiated enemy with a weapon which could kill you alive...

I think it's best to chalk stupid things like that up to the t1000 glitching...perhaps his operational time was running out and he had to kill john urgently or something..

Operational time? The T-800 can last over a century. There's no reason to assume the T-1000 can last only 3 days.

But glitching...yeah, that was my point about how its cognitive abilities were weakened after the liquid nitrogen incident.

[Steven Snyder]

I have an observation here...

There is nothing in the parameters of this matchup that gives Dutch and his team technical knowledge of their opponent.

While we have all seen T-2 and know of a way to kill the T-1000, Dutch and his team probably didn't see that movie. Now it may seem like a no-brainer to us how to take down a T-1000, but I suspect it would be much different if your in the jungle having only recently encountered this thing.

I could envision the scene now...
Anna is curled up in a fetal position screaming that a demon with swords for arms came out of the woods and evicersated Hawkins. Dillon is trying to rationalize the situation, explaining it was probably some guerilla armed with a machete, but he can't understand why the weapons were left behind. While Dutch stops and tells everyone that it is a creature made of a Poly-mimetic metal, liquid metal, it is resistant to gunfire and explosives, but it will slow the creature down. They can freeze it with liquid nitrogen, and destroy it in a smelter. He continues and tells them that it could mimic any one of them and to use a nearby dog to revel the imposter...

Of course that wouldn't happen. Without advanced knowledge of what they are facing the T-1000 is going to quickly and efficiently eliminate the squad.

[FOG3]

Dog? They don't need a dog they have Billy Sole.

[Omega-13]

Well, for 1 and 2, although that may be the perception of most of the viewing audience (save for us geeks), suspension of disbelief means you can't argue that.

there has to be a reasonable limit to suspension of disbelief, or a lot of things will be taken out of context,

[mauldooku]

Well, for 1 and 2, although that may be the perception of most of the viewing audience (save for us geeks), suspension of disbelief means you can't argue that.

there has to be a reasonable limit to suspension of disbelief, or a lot of things will be taken out of context,

Explain.

[Omega-13]

Well, for 1 and 2, although that may be the perception of most of the viewing audience (save for us geeks), suspension of disbelief means you can't argue that.

there has to be a reasonable limit to suspension of disbelief, or a lot of things will be taken out of context,

Explain.

A classic example is the Deathstars main weapon, it is implied in the movie that the DS has the power to destroy a planet, so take it at face value. But then a few years ago you got some trekkies and 5'ers trying to say it was some sort of target specific weapon, and it caused a chain reaction, based on something small they noticed in the movie. That is taking the entire weapon out of context, a classic case of over analyzation.

In this case, t-1000 could have chased them down in 15 seconds, but did they want to end the movie in 15 seconds? no,

[mauldooku]

there has to be a reasonable limit to suspension of disbelief, or a lot of things will be taken out of context,

Explain.

A classic example is the Deathstars main weapon, it is implied in the movie that the DS has the power to destroy a planet, so take it at face value. But then a few years ago you got some trekkies and 5'ers trying to say it was some sort of target specific weapon, and it caused a chain reaction, based on something small they noticed in the movie. That is taking the entire weapon out of context, a classic case of over analyzation.

In this case, t-1000 could have chased them down in 15 seconds, but did they want to end the movie in 15 seconds? no,

I don't think you understand suspension of disbelief. Suspension of disbelief means that we accept what occurs on screen as true, as though the events happened as shown. We are then left to rationalize out the best explanation for the events. In the case of the DeathStar, DET was the best explanation for a multitude of reasons. In the case of the T-1000, the loss of cognitive abilities makes the most sense, IMO, while keeping suspension of disbelief.

[Omega-13]

Explain.

A classic example is the Deathstars main weapon, it is implied in the movie that the DS has the power to destroy a planet, so take it at face value. But then a few years ago you got some trekkies and 5'ers trying to say it was some sort of target specific weapon, and it caused a chain reaction, based on something small they noticed in the movie. That is taking the entire weapon out of context, a classic case of over analyzation.

In this case, t-1000 could have chased them down in 15 seconds, but did they want to end the movie in 15 seconds? no,

I don't think you understand suspension of disbelief. Suspension of disbelief means that we accept what occurs on screen as true, as though the events happened as shown. We are then left to rationalize out the best explanation for the events. In the case of the DeathStar, DET was the best explanation for a multitude of reasons. In the case of the T-1000, the loss of cognitive abilities makes the most sense, IMO, while keeping suspension of disbelief.

I understand exactly what it means, but it is a flawed system. While it is good for somethings, if you use it blindly, you start to take the characters, and events out of the context in which the creators wanted you to see them

[mauldooku]

A classic example is the Deathstars main weapon, it is implied in the movie that the DS has the power to destroy a planet, so take it at face value. But then a few years ago you got some trekkies and 5'ers trying to say it was some sort of target specific weapon, and it caused a chain reaction, based on something small they noticed in the movie. That is taking the entire weapon out of context, a classic case of over analyzation.

In this case, t-1000 could have chased them down in 15 seconds, but did they want to end the movie in 15 seconds? no,

I don't think you understand suspension of disbelief. Suspension of disbelief means that we accept what occurs on screen as true, as though the events happened as shown. We are then left to rationalize out the best explanation for the events. In the case of the DeathStar, DET was the best explanation for a multitude of reasons. In the case of the T-1000, the loss of cognitive abilities makes the most sense, IMO, while keeping suspension of disbelief.

I understand exactly what it means, but it is a flawed system. While it is good for somethings, if you use it blindly, you start to take the characters, and events out of the context in which the creators wanted you to see them

Justify this assumption.

[Omega-13]

It is not an assumption, we see it all the time.

What if we all believed the deathstar was a target specific weapon, and we only thought it could destroy planets, its main weapon taking the paint off starships hulls if it ever hit one? Would we really be absorbing what the creator wanted us to see? HELL NO!

[mauldooku]

It is not an assumption, we see it all the time.

What if we all believed the deathstar was a target specific weapon, and we only thought it could destroy planets, its main weapon taking the paint off starships hulls if it ever hit one? Would we really be absorbing what the creator wanted us to see? HELL NO!

How THE FUCK is that suspension of disbelief?

I'm becoming tired of explaining this to you. Under suspension of disbelief, all the events happened as shown-there is no writer, no director, no producer. We are then left to explain the events in a scientific manner which is supported by the on screen evidence.

In the case of the Death Star, DET is the theory that has the most support for it (unless you are DarkStar), makes the most sense, and is the simplest. The theory you just came up with KILLS suspension of disbelief by IGNORING on screen evidence that suggests the DET theory (in fact, it also ignores the RotJ Battle of Endor, but I won't get into that).

You have yet to provide me a single instance of when suspension of disbelief 'should be ignored'.

How the hell do you not have a VI title yet?!

[FOG3]

Dutch's squad always was grouped up in at least pairs. The T-1000 would have a hard time just picking one of them off. It doesn't have a full cloak or plasma caster like the Predator had.

[Sothis]

Small arms fire and grenades? I think you're gonna have to do better than that to stop a T-1000. If he has a gun it's over; he can stroll out into the middle of the battlefield and laugh as their bullets blow through him and he reforms, and calmly take them out one by one. Even without a gun, his stabby arms'll do the trick.

This one doesn't look good for dutch group.

Actually, T-1000 is incapable of action when being hit with substantial small-arms fire, which is how Arnold briefly incapacitated him prior to the crash of the liquid nitrogen tanker truck (he climbed onto the hood of the truck and unloaded a mag into him). Therefore, a well-planned assault would involve incapacitating him with a barrage of small-arms fire and then lobbing explosives onto him.

A well-planned ambush with prior intel could take down the T-1000, although a chance meeting would obviously not go so well.

That gun that Arnie fired into the T-1000 from the hood of the truck was no mag, nor small-arms. Looked like an assault rifle to me, either taken from the police van, or taken earlier, from the arms dump. It definately pumped a lot more bullets into the T-1000 than a small-arms could have in the same space of time. After all, when being shot at as he chased after the car as Arnie and gang escaped from the institute, Sarah unloaded an entire clip into him, and Arnie even hit him with his shotgun, and still the T-1000 kept up a fierce chase.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Mag means magazine. Darth Wong meant he emptied the magazine into the T-1000. It was an M4.

[Sothis]

Mag means magazine. Darth Wong meant he emptied the magazine into the T-1000. It was an M4.

Aaaaah, my bad, I thought he meant magnum!!!

[FOG3]

Since when did a rifle cease to qualify as Small-arms?

[FOG3]

Also M-4s with their ridiculously small barrels firing 5.56x45mm were known to have problems killing/stopping people in Afghanistan among other places. They really need the longer barrel with any real range effectiveness.