StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Simon H.Johansen wrote:Why is green as a colour used to denote "alien-ness" in sci-fi so often??

Because pea-soup green is so ugly, obviously no human would ever paint their ship that color.

HappyTarget wrote:

Funnily enough, in "Star Trek: Armada", most of the non-D'deridex Romulan ships appeared to be scaled-down D'Deridexes. (However, in later games they became more distinct from the D'Deridex)

IMHO they were just close enough that you could easily tell who had built them, but far enough apart that you could still easily tell which class they were. Shrikes and Griffins are kick ass designs IMHO, and actually look like they are TNG+ Romulan designs. Also why I liked the Valdore. It was close enough that one could easily tell she's a Romulan design, yet also distinct enough to never be mistaken for a D'deridex.

Also, the more distinct from D'deridex versions from various Trek games are the ones that look less "Romulan" to me. (shrug)

I also think that many armada ships actualy looked better than what designers at paramount came up with. As you you have said shrikes and Griffins are excellent designs. I dislike the Draconarious though, it resembles a bird not a starship. My favorite was the Venator class battleship. It has shields stronger than a galaxy class starship, longer range disruptors and torpedoes and a cloaking device. And yet it was relatively inexpensive. It would have made great sense if the romulans actualy had the Venator to complement the Warbird like the Galaxy complements the Sovergein. Too bad armada is not canon.

I dislike the Draconarious though, it resembles a bird not a starship.

Agreed. And IMHO it's also one of the Romulan designs that strayed the farthest from the D'deridex and Talon design asthetics.

My favorite was the Venator class battleship.

Design wise its passable IMHO. I would have shurnk the length of the wings and increased the primary hull a bit, but overall, it's a good design.

What I would really like to see is a Shadow/D'deridex hybrid. Top profile stays primarily like the Shadow, but side and front profile looks more like the D'deridex.

It would have made great sense if the romulans actualy had the Venator to complement the Warbird like the Galaxy complements the Sovergein. Too bad armada is not canon.

Armada has the best TNG+ era non-canon ship designs of any TNG+ era game I've played (which should read as all of them)

Post Dominion war Galaxy lays down the whupass, the Nemesis refit Sovereign lays down even moreso. Hence they do compliment eachother. One blows stuff up, the other blows it up faster.

IMHO whomever they got to model for Armada should model for Trek TV and Movies. Their new designs were out on the whole quite outstanding!

evilcat4000 wrote: I also think that many armada ships actualy looked better than what designers at paramount came up with. As you you have said shrikes and Griffins are excellent designs.

I actually kinda like the "Low-Rider Warbird" look of the Shrike.

Still, the Armada ships still look very similar to the D'Deridex.

I dislike the Draconarious though, it resembles a bird not a starship. My favorite was the Venator class battleship. It has shields stronger than a galaxy class starship, longer range disruptors and torpedoes and a cloaking device. And yet it was relatively inexpensive.

The Venator and the Draconarius?? I have never heard of those.

Can any of you all post pics of these armada vessels? I'm interested in seeing them.

I would say that their fleet is hardly different from other starfleets around the AQ. Observe:

Klingons: Limited to Vor'Cha class cruisers, BoP models, and apparently retrofitted K-7 type starships.

Cardassians: Only two models of capital ships ever seen (Galor and Kraemer), along with small patrol ships.

Ferengi: Shuttles and Marauders.

Borg: Scout cubes, normal cubes, spheres, and tactical cubes.

Starfleet has a larger variety of ships primarily because of their variety of roles. In all of the other fleets (with the possible exception of the Ferengi), every ship is designed to fulfill a specific purpose: combat. In SF, ships are designed for combat, but also for exploration, patrol, and standard freighter missions. You notice the variety in SF vessels more, certainly, because we see them most often, but the behavior of the various other groups in the AQ strongly suggests that it is much more economical to design a few classes of starships and crank them out than it is to design lots and lots of other classes to fulfill every possible role in a fleet, given that most of the ships used by other species are only designed to fight.

Can any of you all post pics of these armada vessels? I'm interested in seeing them.

Check out:

http://www.st-armada.com/

Under Romulan

Just scroll down to see the ships ingame screenshots

Ship sketches are also good for getting a good profile shot.

no other site I know of has decent ship profile shots. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

I actually kinda like the "Low-Rider Warbird" look of the Shrike.

Still, the Armada ships still look very similar to the D'Deridex.

You will notice that the romulan raptor resembles a warbird at warp. The shadow also looks like small warbird due to its similar looking bridge and wings. However I do not think all armada ships resemble a warbird. The games art designers were quite original in their modeling efforts. For expample the Griffin is a triangular shaped cruiser that is distinct from a warbird, the Draconarious resebles a bird and the Venator looks like the B2 bomber.

The Venator and the Draconarius?? I have never heard of those.

The Venator and the Draconarious are found in armada2. Venators are battleships that have long range weopens and heavy shielding (stronger than a Galaxy) but no special weopens. The Draconarious is a cruiser armed with powerful disruptors but has relatively weak shields and no speical weopens.

Klingons: Limited to Vor'Cha class cruisers, BoP models, and apparently retrofitted K-7 type starships.

There are several types of destroyer class Bird of Preys including the orginal Bop designated the D11, the fighter class BoPs seen in "Way of the warrior and the unique BoP captained by general Chang in ST6 that could fire while cloaked. There may be more classes that have not yet been fully identified.

Three main cruiser variants are known to exist. The original D7 class, the upgraded Ktinga, the B'rel class BoP and the advanced Vorcha class.

There are also battleships including the Neghvar seen first in "Way of the warrior" and the unique BoP "battleship" seen in "The defector". Little is known about this unique BoP since it was never seen again but it is almost as big as a Galaxy class. The Neghvar may have appeared in other episodes including the alternate future in "all good things" and "endgame". But untill some does a good scaling job there is no way to confirm them.

Cardassians: Only two models of capital ships ever seen (Galor and Kraemer), along with small patrol ships.

Actualy there are four known cardassian ship classes. The Galor class cruiser, the Keldon battlecruiser, the Dreadnaught cruise missile and the Hideki scout.

The Galor and Keldon are well known by anyone who watched DS9. Galors appear to be weaker ships since Galaxies destroy them without much effort and maqui gave them a good fight in Pergeine fighters. Keldons are more powerful ships though.

Hidekies appear to be small scout ship that also operates as a fighter..

Dreadnaughts are long range cruise missiles that can cover thousands lightyears at speeds of warp 9. The rogue Dreadnaught in "dreadnaught" remained fully functional after nine months of continuos warp travel. They also have very advanced AI and guidence sytem that can make its own decisions. The Dreadnaught carries a massive warhead that according to Tuvok can destroy a small moon. It seems unlikely that Dreadnaghts could destroy an earth sized planets since their warhead contains only 1500 kg of matter and equal amount of matter giving a yield of 64,400 megatons, less than third of a heavy turbolaser .

Ferengi: Shuttles and Marauders

'

Agreed.

Borg: Scout cubes, normal cubes, spheres, and tactical cubes.

The borg have Cubes, Tactical Cubes, Spheres, Diamonds, Scouts and at least one unknown vessel seen in "Descent".

Diamonds appear to be the flagship of the borg collective as seen in "Dark Frontier". They are less powerful than a Cube but has tractor beams, assimilation chamber and probobly other features found in borg Cubes.

Probes are very weak vessels since Voyger was easily able to destroy one. They actualy beamed a torpedo through supposedly impenetrable borg shielding. Other than that nothing is known about them.

Starfleet has a larger variety of ships primarily because of their variety of roles. In all of the other fleets (with the possible exception of the Ferengi), every ship is designed to fulfill a specific purpose: combat. In SF, ships are designed for combat, but also for exploration, patrol, and standard freighter missions. You notice the variety in SF vessels more, certainly, because we see them most often, but the behavior of the various other groups in the AQ strongly suggests that it is much more economical to design a few classes of starships and crank them out than it is to design lots and lots of other classes to fulfill every possible role in a fleet, given that most of the ships used by other species are only designed to fight.

I agree with you. Due to the large number of roles it has due to its civilian / military nature it needs many different types of ships. Starfleet tends to favor medium sized ships in the 300 - 450 meter range. They are well armed and shielded for their size and can handle most alpha quadrant ships one to one. For more powerful foes starfleet has heavy duty combat vessels such as the Galaxy, the Akira and the Sovergein. Quite an effective strategy but it only works as long as starfleet maintains a military and technological edge over the enemy. This was confirmed by the heavy losses starfleet suffered in the dominion war, in the end starfleet has little chance beating a superior or equal foe without resorting to technobabble.

Incidentally, my theory is also supported by the limited number of ship classes seen during the Dominion War, which was fought primarily by Excelsior and Miranda variants, along with retrofitted GCS's and a small number of ships from other classes. This would suggest that these classes are more combat-capable than the other ship types, or that geographic concerns brought them closer to the front-lines more often, though the later theory makes far less sense.

Master of Ossus wrote:Incidentally, my theory is also supported by the limited number of ship classes seen during the Dominion War, which was fought primarily by Excelsior and Miranda variants, along with retrofitted GCS's and a small number of ships from other classes. This would suggest that these classes are more combat-capable than the other ship types, or that geographic concerns brought them closer to the front-lines more often, though the later theory makes far less sense.

I think the first theory is more plausible. After sustaining heavy losses starfleet may have found it more effective to deploy large numbers of similar ships that support each other in a combined arms tactic. It is definately more effective to have large numbers of ships of few classes as opposed to the same number ships of many different classes. As seen in the real world any military unit performs better when deployed in large groups and suffer performence losses when myriads of different unrelated units are deployed togather.

The theory about geographic concerns is less likely as the Excelsiors and Mirandas which saw extensive service during the dominion war are old starships that have very slow warp drives. Since they were initialy scattered throughout the alpha quadrant few would have made it to the front lines in time unless starfleet specificaly maintained large fleets of this ships that were intended to operate togather.

Most likely though the lack federation starship variety has to do with production budget. It takes significant amount of money to build each starship model so the producers were willing to go no further than necessary.