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In certain cases I imagine it's a lot harder to cut the person's family ties entirely. If your parents were Very Important People than it's a lot harder to cover that than it is to cut ties with the Nobody family. The elite likely would be interested in knowing how their kid is doing in Jedi School, and being able to keep them happy could be useful.

One possibility is that Dooku was heir to a vast fortune by the laws of some particular planet, and those laws do not care whether or not you've become a Jedi. While a member of the order he might have said "I want no part of this wealth," for all I know- but if he decides to retire, the estate is legally still his, and he can't just give it away.

Alternatively, that could have been the trigger (or the pretext) that got him to retire from the Jedi in the first place: his brother/uncle/whatever dies, and suddenly there's a planet in need of someone to manage it, and Dooku's the only guy who can do it. He's getting old, his days of running all over the galaxy are coming to an end, so he retires while he still has his health and goes to his newly inherited estate.

The latter seems unlikely as it's a bit too cavalier. If retiring from the Jedi was that easy, there'd be a lot more old Jedi Masters sitting around the galaxy's Waffle Houses.

Elheru Aran wrote:The latter seems unlikely as it's a bit too cavalier. If retiring from the Jedi was that easy, there'd be a lot more old Jedi Masters sitting around the galaxy's Waffle Houses.

You're discounting the aforementioned indoctrination. IIRC from Obi-Wans EU novels as a Padawan if you are not seen as fit you are sent to some shitty planet to work away from trouble. Your escaping this is essentially dependent on a Master seeing good in you before you come of age. So all the self-evidently bad ones are gone by puberty.That alone removes most of the risk of wayward-yet-relatively-harmless Force Sensitives running or working for crime syndicates.The late blooming assholes are probably not going to become Masters and the rest are driven enough to maintain their position. They're not the sort of people to just fuck off away from everything they know.

You also seem to ignore that this is a way of life, an entire religion one studies, not just a job.As a normal person in this world you work, then kick your feet up when you can support yourself. Not so with Jedi or any other monastic group that can get away with it I imagine. The average Jedi Master has no incentive to just leave and go to a waffle house because they would want to spend their time learning and training others even if they didn't want to directly serve (I imagine that it was less hazardous before the Clone Wars).

In AOTC, Obi Wan shouts at Anakin that he will be "expelled from the Jedi Order."

When was this? Because timing matters. And we're talking about Obi-Wan here, it is not that strange for him to believe that the threat of losing all one had left now, all that had saved Anakin from being a slave was more important than whatever happened with Padme.

Of course, this would have been a great threat a few years previously, before you knew a Sith was running around. Not so smart.

Now, I have two questions on this. The first is, what happens to those who are expelled? Presumably having Force powers would make you highly attractive to businesses so I can't imagine it would be too hard to get a new job, unless there's some Republic-sanctioned ban on ex-Jedi working or something.

I imagine that most businesses take precautions and if you go too far the Jedi themselves will deal with you. Running around doing odd jobs? It's a big galaxy and there's only so much they can do.Run a major crime syndicate? You'll get a friendly visit from your brethren.

Scrib wrote:

Now, I have two questions on this. The first is, what happens to those who are expelled? Presumably having Force powers would make you highly attractive to businesses so I can't imagine it would be too hard to get a new job, unless there's some Republic-sanctioned ban on ex-Jedi working or something.

I imagine that most businesses take precautions and if you go too far the Jedi themselves will deal with you. Running around doing odd jobs? It's a big galaxy and there's only so much they can do.Run a major crime syndicate? You'll get a friendly visit from your brethren.

Did I say anything about criminals? No, I said nusinesses. Being much better than average at reading and influencing people on it's own is going to very attractive to any number of companies when negotiating contracts. We also have mention made in the EU of Jedi using the Force to better plot hyperspace courses, a clear advantage to a shipping line or similar business. That's just two things off the top of my head. (Incidentally I can't help but recall Luke's remark about his father being "a navigator on a spice freighter" when I type that).

StarSword wrote:I now have this image in my head of Jedi versus Jedi poker games. Adds a whole 'nother mechanic when you and your opponent are both trying to probe the other's mind to see if the other guy is bluffing while simultaneously trying to stop the other guy from probing you.

I'm reminded of the Guild of Gamberlers from Discworld because of the high level of regulated cheating to guild members falls back to skill

I think it depends on the circumstances behind the expulsion. As mentioned before, Dooku left on his own with no hard feelings, as did Ashoka after her exoneration, albeit with hard feelings.

On the other hand, The Clone Wars had a Supermax-on-a-Deathworld prison they dumped fallen Jedi into. It's unknown what would have normally happened to Barriss Offee after she got arrested, given that Palpatine likely went "Yoink!", and she's apparently set to appear as an Inquisitor in Rebels.

Thread necros are a path to the dark side. Necros lead to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. I sense much Necro here...

Necros are fine if you add something new to the discussion, which he did.

I've actually caught a few episodes of Rebels and I don't entirely hate it. I don't think that having all these force sensitives and such is a good idea and I feel like it's going to get them stuck in a corner.

Havok wrote:Necros are fine if you add something new to the discussion, which he did.

I've actually caught a few episodes of Rebels and I don't entirely hate it. I don't think that having all these force sensitives and such is a good idea and I feel like it's going to get them stuck in a corner.

That was similarly a problem with the EU that was written immediately after ROTS. So much for Luke being "the Last Jedi."

The problem is that those characters should realistically be killed off, which is unlikely to happen given that they are the main characters of the series. Though I think it would be nice if the characters of Rebels are involved in a suicide mission that leads to the capture of the Death Star plans. It could even serve as a tie in to the movie Rouge One.

Well, Luke being the last of the Jedi is based on Yoda's word, so really, you can explain it with Yoda being wrong (he's powerful, but not omniscient) or lying (he wasn't exactly forthright about who Luke's father was).

Also, of the Rebels characters, Ashoka, at least, is not technically a Jedi.

However, you still need an explanation for why Luke never encountered any of these other Jedi (and thus didn't know Yoda was wrong) if they were fighting for the Rebellion.

In any case, I very much doubt they're going to end Rebels by killing all the main characters. One or two, maybe. All of them? Probably too dark for a Disney Star Wars cartoon that's likely intended mainly for children.

I would very much like to see Rebels tie in with Rogue One however.

Adamskywalker007 wrote:

Havok wrote:Necros are fine if you add something new to the discussion, which he did.

I've actually caught a few episodes of Rebels and I don't entirely hate it. I don't think that having all these force sensitives and such is a good idea and I feel like it's going to get them stuck in a corner.

That was similarly a problem with the EU that was written immediately after ROTS. So much for Luke being "the Last Jedi."

The problem is that those characters should realistically be killed off, which is unlikely to happen given that they are the main characters of the series. Though I think it would be nice if the characters of Rebels are involved in a suicide mission that leads to the capture of the Death Star plans. It could even serve as a tie in to the movie Rouge One.

Honestly, Luke being the Last of the Jedi means a lot less than it used to.

SAMAS wrote:

Adamskywalker007 wrote:

Havok wrote:Necros are fine if you add something new to the discussion, which he did.

I've actually caught a few episodes of Rebels and I don't entirely hate it. I don't think that having all these force sensitives and such is a good idea and I feel like it's going to get them stuck in a corner.

That was similarly a problem with the EU that was written immediately after ROTS. So much for Luke being "the Last Jedi."

The problem is that those characters should realistically be killed off, which is unlikely to happen given that they are the main characters of the series. Though I think it would be nice if the characters of Rebels are involved in a suicide mission that leads to the capture of the Death Star plans. It could even serve as a tie in to the movie Rouge One.

Honestly, Luke being the Last of the Jedi means a lot less than it used to.

Just because the EU is crap doesn't mean we have to accept it.

e the Order, from what I understand. They can be polite and everything, but that no-attachment thing makes it hard to actually bond with people. So getting expelled from the Order basically means you've been cut off from anybody who could resemble a family member of friend to you. Look at how a some religions handle things when they're so overwhelming in a locale that you get shunned for not being one of them. Get kicked out of the club and suddenly everyone you knew to any extent is treating you like an unperson.

Yes and this reputation will be probably a bad mark on you in the entire Republic.

Except then the Jedi Order's stupidity comes in again, because then instead of settling down or something, exiled Jedi would find work among disreputable people (criminals, maybe worse) who do not see the bad mark as such a thing.

However, it might not be that bad if there are laws regarding blatant abuse of Force Powers (even if non-Dark Side) may get you trouble with the law. Being a Jedi makes you immune, but get exiled and suddenly you have all sorts of problem even if you didn't do anything. There are natural telepaths and such, so society probably has laws to handle them. If an exiled Jedi makes bad moves (start cheating in casinos) or something, there might be a Jedi to come and handle them. Which might automatically lead to worse things.

Adamskywalker007 wrote:

SAMAS wrote:Honestly, Luke being the Last of the Jedi means a lot less than it used to.

Just because the EU is crap doesn't mean we have to accept it.

I was thinking more about the Prequels when I said that.

SAMAS wrote:

Adamskywalker007 wrote:

SAMAS wrote:Honestly, Luke being the Last of the Jedi means a lot less than it used to.

Just because the EU is crap doesn't mean we have to accept it.

I was thinking more about the Prequels when I said that.

How do the prequels imply anything else?

The Prequels never suggested that any Jedi survived other than those shown in the OT.

Its Rebels that has complicated things (although Ashoka gets a pass because she left the Jedi Order).

The Romulan Republic wrote:The Prequels never suggested that any Jedi survived other than those shown in the OT.

Thinking about it, it might be possible that he was referring to the fact that Obi-Wan and Yoda sent a signal to tell whatever Jedi survived Order 66 to go to ground.

The Romulan Republic wrote:The Prequels never suggested that any Jedi survived other than those shown in the OT.

Its Rebels that has complicated things (although Ashoka gets a pass because she left the Jedi Order).

To be quite fair, the prequels don't suggest that Jedi survived Order 66... but they don't say none but Yoda and Kenobi did, either. While certainly the great majority of Jedi are killed, Wookieepedia lists 76, including Kenobi and Yoda. Of course that 76 includes very loosely canon Jedi from the RPGs, fan favorites like Quinlan Vos (seriously, fuck Vos), dark Jedi like Jerec, Ood B'Nar in his tree form on Ossus, Supreme Prophet Kadann from the execrable Glove of Darth Vader series... You could probably drop the West End Games material and halve that list.

To be honest, there were so many Jedi spread so widely across the galaxy that it is inevitable *some* survived the Purge; Rahm Kota is a good example (surrounded himself with human soldiers rather than clones, so when 66 happened he survived). When you consider that Palpatine surrounded himself with Dark Side users and adepts such as Jerec and various other Force users as well as Vader, it would make sense that the Force was thereby 'balanced' by only having a similarly small number of Force users on the Light side.

Of course the big downside of this Wookieepedia list is that nearly all of it is now Legendaries canon... nevertheless, logic does suggest that there must have been a few Jedi who survived, unless Obi-wan's communication was pure futile desperation.

Also we should remember that at least some surviving Jedi would be half-trained padawans like Kanaan, also it's highly likely that the Empire didn't just stop hunting Jedi after the official end of the Clone Wars and there were survivors of Order 66 who were later hunted down and killed.

Lord Revan wrote:Also we should remember that at least some surviving Jedi would be half-trained padawans like Kanaan, also it's highly likely that the Empire didn't just stop hunting Jedi after the official end of the Clone Wars and there were survivors of Order 66 who were later hunted down and killed.

This does explicitly happen in older canon. In the Rogue Squadron books, when Corran Horn escapes the Lusankya and passes through the lower levels of the Imperial Museum, he passes through a closed-off section devoted to the Purge and uncovers a number of interesting gadgets, including one capable of reading a person's Force ability, used by Imperials hunting Jedi. Various other events related to the Purge have been shown as well, such as Vader hunting down the Dark Lady and killing her.

But again, it suffers from the whole Legendaries canon thing...

Elheru Aran wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:Also we should remember that at least some surviving Jedi would be half-trained padawans like Kanaan, also it's highly likely that the Empire didn't just stop hunting Jedi after the official end of the Clone Wars and there were survivors of Order 66 who were later hunted down and killed.

This does explicitly happen in older canon. In the Rogue Squadron books, when Corran Horn escapes the Lusankya and passes through the lower levels of the Imperial Museum, he passes through a closed-off section devoted to the Purge and uncovers a number of interesting gadgets, including one capable of reading a person's Force ability, used by Imperials hunting Jedi. Various other events related to the Purge have been shown as well, such as Vader hunting down the Dark Lady and killing her.

But again, it suffers from the whole Legendaries canon thing...

Tbh it makes perfect sense that there would be some survivors from the Order 66, it would nice if in current canon it was shown that as the years went on and number of survivors shrank the empire put less emphasis on hunting down surviving jedi but never really stopped doing it.

Elheru Aran wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:The Prequels never suggested that any Jedi survived other than those shown in the OT.

Its Rebels that has complicated things (although Ashoka gets a pass because she left the Jedi Order).

To be quite fair, the prequels don't suggest that Jedi survived Order 66... but they don't say none but Yoda and Kenobi did, either. While certainly the great majority of Jedi are killed, Wookieepedia lists 76, including Kenobi and Yoda. Of course that 76 includes very loosely canon Jedi from the RPGs, fan favorites like Quinlan Vos (seriously, fuck Vos), dark Jedi like Jerec, Ood B'Nar in his tree form on Ossus, Supreme Prophet Kadann from the execrable Glove of Darth Vader series... You could probably drop the West End Games material and halve that list.

To be honest, there were so many Jedi spread so widely across the galaxy that it is inevitable *some* survived the Purge; Rahm Kota is a good example (surrounded himself with human soldiers rather than clones, so when 66 happened he survived). When you consider that Palpatine surrounded himself with Dark Side users and adepts such as Jerec and various other Force users as well as Vader, it would make sense that the Force was thereby 'balanced' by only having a similarly small number of Force users on the Light side.

Their is no canon evidence I am aware of for the idea that pops up now and then that "balancing the Force" meant killing off the Jedi. A theory I find offensive both because it is an obvious attempt to inject moral ambiguity or relativism into a series which is at its best when its fairly straightforward good vs. evil, and because it tacitly endorses a genocide as the right course of action.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Their is no canon evidence I am aware of for the idea that pops up now and then that "balancing the Force" meant killing off the Jedi. A theory I find offensive both because it is an obvious attempt to inject moral ambiguity or relativism into a series which is at its best when its fairly straightforward good vs. evil, and because it tacitly endorses a genocide as the right course of action.

While I don't disagree about your assertions regarding balancing the Force, I would disagree that it is absolute good versus evil. One interesting theme is that good is often weaker than evil. In the prequels, we have democracy that is incapable of dealing with the crisis and the Jedi that are incapable of defeating the Sith. And in the end, on and around Endor, it is not through force of arms that good prevails but through sacrifice and trickery.