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Excuse me Bean, but I think your trying to ignore your loss on a certain point. Please note the following, for I quote, you said:

"WHEN HAS THE TRACTORS ON ISDs, WORLD DEVSTATORS ect EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO PIN A FIGHTER SIZED CRAFT IN PLACE THAT IS NOT TRYING TO DODGE AND WHEN HAS IT EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO HOLD THAT CRAFT IN PLACE! "

note bold, but later when Alyeska says this:

"It gets even better. In X-Wing Bacta War, an Empress class space station was able to use a gravity well generator and tractor beams to trap an SSD in place. The SSD was incapable of moving in any direction. "

You scream straw-man, now was it just me, or did he just prove that tractors can hold something in place? And did you just ignore it, saying it didn't prove anything about a totally different point?

That aside, perhaps my overconfident statement was made hastily (and it was), so I'll try something that makes a little more sense.

A.) Tractor beams come in may shapes and sizes for tractoring diffrent things. While on an ISD the biggest thing they'll have to tractor is a Corellian Corvette, this requires the use of cap ship tractors, which are long range, slow, bulky, and place on the outside hull of the ship for pusuit puposes. The smallest thig on teh other hand, would be a TIE fighter, which would need to fly up to the hanger to recieve guidance from the fighter tractors. These tractors are most likly similarly slow and bulky, perhaps less so.

The DSs big tractors reel things in bigger than an ISD (most likly) and as small as a TIE fighter. A small enough ship, such as say an X-Wing, would hardly have to move to dodge something like a cap ship beam, which would have been able to grab them at that distance, and I believe the MF was captured in what was a cap ship beam. Since the X-Wings didn't come close enough to the hangers to be targeted by the smaller ones, they weren't in any danger.

B.) It is possible that the tractors are only on the equatoral belt, where the hangers are. The cap ship tractor applies here still, but at close range, no tractor would be able to hit them.

Now I feel I need to try to debunk some of your "proof."
ANH-The Blockade Runner was obviously either A.) out of the tractors range, or more likly B.) its engines were powerful enough to break the grip. We see that later they use tractors to reel it in. Because you don't honestly think the ISD just landed perfectly on it so it would fit inside the hanger do you? Tractors my man, tractors.

I bring up the cap ship tractors vs. fighter tractors one here, the MF was out of range for any tractors that could catch it (I presume you speak of the escape from tatooine).

TESB-The Hoth escape scene, did you notice that that ISD was kinda disabled by the ion cannon? I have this funny feeling that a ship without power will find it difficult to tractor.

During the asteroid chase I doubt an ISD could've fired a tractor without getting a rock instead. And later out of the field, the MF uses som efancy flying that a tractor could never hit.

During the escape from Cloud City Vader actually does mention about arming the tractor beams and preparing a boarding party, after all teh MF was hugging the SDs hull.

ROTJ-Just because we don't see any doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen. After all most of the action took place either when the shields were up, or when the fighters flew into the core, hugging the hull to avoid TL fire, and probably tractors.

COPL?

X-Wing-First off it is a wank-fest, and secondly all character shields there were no doubt running at full.[/b]

So shall you reap...
First it was a misunderstanding on my part I thought Alyksa was using it as an example of how somthing could be caughter rather than held still so I'll concided that minor point that yes they can hold a ship in place(However of the record(Word of the day!) it could be aurgued that they still did not *Hold the ship in place rather the ship was trying to go backwards and the tractor trying to draw it in and thus negated each other but I'll just let that point drop)

Tractor beams come in may shapes and sizes for tractoring diffrent things. While on an ISD the biggest thing they'll have to tractor is a Corellian Corvette, this requires the use of cap ship tractors, which are long range, slow, bulky, and place on the outside hull of the ship for pusuit puposes. The smallest thig on teh other hand, would be a TIE fighter, which would need to fly up to the hanger to recieve guidance from the fighter tractors. These tractors are most likly similarly slow and bulky, perhaps less so.

True they do come in sizes, however nothing is mentioned in shaps, there are no *offense tractors, there are no *super tractors there are only small Tractors and *Cap-ship Tractors ever mentioned in Cross-sections or the EU
Also we know CANNONLY that the standered Imperial MK II class Star Destroyer mounts 10 Tractors assorted Turbolasere batterys and heavys plus Ion cannons and its all laid out rather nicely, HOWEVER there is not mention of *Fighter Tractors, Just Tractors, Ten tractors nothing more nothing less.
As for the second part about smaller less slow and bulky Transports may I remind you of the classic Warsie cry
POWER SETTINGS!
One of those things is that one of the Ten Cap-Ship Tractors is Mounted in the Hanger and simply cuts its power back for Fighters
That is nothing more than a Theroy based on the information provided

However as I may point out while your reasoning is ok you have no proof to back it up.

The DSs big tractors reel things in bigger than an ISD (most likly) and as small as a TIE fighter. A small enough ship, such as say an X-Wing, would hardly have to move to dodge something like a cap ship beam, which would have been able to grab them at that distance, and I believe the MF was captured in what was a cap ship beam. Since the X-Wings didn't come close enough to the hangers to be targeted by the smaller ones, they weren't in any danger.

The Excutor did not come about untill after the DS had died, The only thing at that time bigger than an ISD, was... Nothing thus your statment is non-censical why would the DS Tractors be built to reel in things that don't exist?

Second agian in the DS description in EU there are break-downs of types of weaponry and shielding and what-not but agian it mentions a Set number of TRACTORS, No medium/Heavy/Light just Tractor emplacements thus your diffrent shapes idea does not pan out(We know of Fighter sized Tractors mounted on Shuttles and Tie Defenders and we know of Cap-Ship Tractors mounted on everything from Corrilian Corvetts to DS)

Second a rather large flaw

Since the X-Wings didn't come close enough to the hangers to be targeted by the smaller ones, they weren't in any danger.

The X-Wings where flying right at the Centerline and the Hangers when they split up at an even closer distance thant the MF was before it was caught in the Tractor

Agian nice Theory but it does not match the on screen evidance

Now I feel I need to try to debunk some of your "proof."
ANH-The Blockade Runner was obviously either A.) out of the tractors range, or more likly B.) its engines were powerful enough to break the grip. We see that later they use tractors to reel it in. Because you don't honestly think the ISD just landed perfectly on it so it would fit inside the hanger do you? Tractors my man, tractors.

You misunderstand the point is the Ship was OUTRUNNING the ISD and what could a Tractor do but slow it down and it only caught up with the ISD after its engines where shut down
Thus the point, It was running away DESPITE the Tractors probably on it and if they where NOT on it then thats a good cause for bad accuracy of Tractor Beams if it can't grap a cap ship what hope does it have of getting the SC?

TESB-The Hoth escape scene, did you notice that that ISD was kinda disabled by the ion cannon? I have this funny feeling that a ship without power will find it difficult to tractor.

Not the one I'm refering to the fact is(EU here) a great many Transports NOT supported by the Ion Cannon where taken down by the ISDs, NOT by grabbing them with Tractors but by shooting them up(Despite the fact they wanted prisoners and Traping a Ship with Tractors while sending over an assut shuttle or two of Stormys is a damn fine better way then shoot the bridge/engines off

I'm refering strait to EU in this patricular one I'm sorry I did not make that clear

During the asteroid chase I doubt an ISD could've fired a tractor without getting a rock instead. And later out of the field, the MF uses som efancy flying that a tractor could never hit.

Straw-man- I'm not talking about the Asteroid Chase Sceane rather the before part and after part, you know where they are being chased in open space?
Then later when they are agian chased in open space and Solo is able to buzz the bridge?

During the escape from Cloud City Vader actually does mention about arming the tractor beams and preparing a boarding party, after all teh MF was hugging the SDs hull.

What about the Flight time up to then? The Excutitor was not six feet away from the Landing pad after all? Why not grap them then?

[ROTJ-Just because we don't see any doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen. After all most of the action took place either when the shields were up, or when the fighters flew into the core, hugging the hull to avoid TL fire, and probably tractors.

What about the Run to the Death-Star? What about the inital Attack on the ISDs when they where far away?

Fact is you don't have any proof about Tractors being able to grap Fighter Sized Craft at will and you failed to even try and *debuke over half my information

Also COPL
Courtship of Princess Leia
We have the Acroymny list here don't forget

X-Wing-First off it is a wank-fest, and secondly all character shields there were no doubt running at full

Charater shields? Need I remind you of those Stackpoll killed off?
Second the fact stands Charater shields or not(Look at DS Runs 1 and 2, TWO survived the first and FOUR made it out of the second, and five off hoth of course, Tycho, Wedge, Wes and Hobbie the core group oh and that farmboy Luke but he got uppity and left
The fact stands the existance of Rouge Squadren a squadren of fighters that runs up aginst Cap ships with Tractors every day, often by themsleves counters your aurgment about the ability of Cap ships to grap fighters at will

Bah barely worth the effort

NEXT!

Mr Bean wrote:

Without its torps, and its ability to ram, it'll be effectivly usless in a tractor beam, unless it has some super engines now too! Its tiny laser cannons would do little to the mighty ISD, and it would simply starve out the SC, or drag it to the nearest black hole cluster and dump it in.

Heres a hint Dive Towards the Tractor Beam, Whats on the other end? Why a ship you can dive through and destroy!

Its very hard to do what you mention by its very Nature the SC is hard to get a lock on(ITS STEALTHY!) and so far no SW tractors show an abilites to HOLD somthing
(And BTW if they could sorry to say why the heck don't they use any of those ten tractors on an ISD to hold Fighters still so the HTL can hit them with ease huh? Its not like the Tractors are doing anything else!)

Well, it's expensive, so you probably won't have more than a few in your galaxy. Anyway, it would become useless after running out of resonance torpedoes.

Its still one bad ass ship killer or what do you think would happen to the avarage ISD with a Six Meter Hole Drilled through it....

No no, in Champions of the Force, Han, albeit surprised, catches the Sun Crusher as it flies by in a tractor beam. It spun the Falcon around. Kyp didn't drive right back at the ship though. He threatens to shoot a torp at them. If it was an ISD. Then as soon as he starts to come at the emplacement, then use another one to tractor it at the same time. The ISD at the beginning of ANH tractors the CR-90. The Death Star tractors the Falcon. Those are hard pressed examples, but still, they tractor, hold and drag thier target in. The only time there was a real problem was in ESB. I would think due to the same reasons turbolasers have a hard time of catching fighters, tractor beams could not catch the Falcon. Actually, it could also be coupled with the point that the Falcon can jam signals. Much like ANH.

No no, in Champions of the Force, Han, albeit surprised, catches the Sun Crusher as it flies by in a tractor beam. It spun the Falcon around. Kyp didn't drive right back at the ship though. He threatens to shoot a torp at them.

By complete suprise as in he had no idea it would work, second Kyp was not moving very fast third KYP spun him around to face him not the Tractor(That much is easy to see or are all Tractors desgined to spin your target around so its got its weapons aimed at you?)
Third he indicats he could break the Tractor very easily the simple fact it was Han there held Kyp up for a second from just killing him, Look at what Happend on Carida when they tried to lock onto him

Actually, it could also be coupled with the point that the Falcon can jam signals

Which X-Wings and A-Wings don't have turned on though they carry them, the SC did not have any of that yet how did it easly evade all Tractors but when it was sitting very still and very close to Han?


NEXT!

The tractor in ANH might already be keeping the Blockade Runner from running ahead too far or jumping into hyperspace. But there's no need to reel it in immediately. It is a fish on your rope. No one tries to pull a big fish in right after it is caught. Knock or tire it out, THEN reel it in. You can't really reel it into your hangar until it is knocked out anyway.

BTW, in HTTE, Thrawn tractored in an Assault Frigate to protect his weak starboard flank. It was held precisely in aspect (disarmed side towards destroyer) and position (covering the weakened shield section, close in.) It was apparently struggling too "clearly against its will (394)."

Yes, I know that Chimaera's crew is working about 40% more effective than usual recently, but it at least shows that mechanistically, it is possible, and a sharp crew could get the job done.

Oh, and Luke WAS evading that day in HTTE. The Chimaera was starting to shoot at them, and Luke ordered for some power to be diverted to deflector as he began "giving his full attention to his best evasive maneuvering. (180)" So there is actually at least one example of a capship tractor beam getting a lock on a dodging fighter.

Oh yeah, shall I mention C'baoth was NOT with them that day, so it wasn't like they were boosted?

He wound up escaping with a desperation, last-ditch maneuver that apparently exceeded the max. accel parameters of the Imperial tractor beam. Still, if Cris Pietrson had actually been LISTENING to Ensign Colclazure as he explained how to confirm that your new lock is the same as your old lock, he might have been able to regain his lock on Luke (who is still very close by.) Instead, he locked onto the protorps (Jeez, can't he see that he had locked onto two TINY targets instead of one fighter-sized target?)

Do remember that Luke did qualify to make that poll about the Best Pilot, so it isn't like they had a sitting duck on their hands.

The Ion Cannon most likely tried to support each one as it came out. Or do you think they fired precisely two shots in the whole battle against the Tyrant? Besides, I doubt they really care for more than a real small percentage of the Rebels. Shooting or killing the REST of them is perfectly fine.

I'll basically agree that the average tractor beam we see has marginal targetting performance against evasive starfighters. But then, they seem to have marginal targetting performance against starfighters in GENERAL, probably due to a mix of high maneuverability and ECM.

They can HOLD a starfighter. The ability to HOLD something is dependent on max traction power. Their ability to TARGET something depends on their tachymetric FCS and ECCM on small targets, and they do sorely lack the needed performance, as do HTL batteries.

Still, one can get lucky (or good.) Eventually, a tractor beam will sweep over a X-Wing and lock on. Luke ran out of luck. Rogue Squadron had been lucky in the battles you saw them in, that's all

Besides, if I got a lock good enough on a small object for a tractor beam, I might as well transfer my FCS data to guns to blow the ship out. Most of the time, I don't mind destroying them.

Oh hes good, hes very good. And I'm not one to say I'm better, but I'll give it a shot.

If an ISD has a single tractor to reel in fighters, its gonna take a hell of a long time to reel in dozens of fighters and bombers who need to refuel/rearm no? Indeed we have canon evidence of ten tractors on an ISD, but would tiny little fighter tractors in a hanger be important enough to mention in any EU source?

Nitpick here, but I'll get into it anyways. Bean are you to tell me you don't believe that the SW universe doesn't have craft larger than 1600 long? I don't care about mass, that doesn't have to do with how the ship fits inside something like the DS. After all to feed X number of people (millions?) your gona want abunch of big ships restocking you. But that shouldgo without saying.

Yes it says a set number of tractors. It also says a set number of TLs. By your logic ALL of an ISDs or DSs TLs will be of the same type, since no source specifies that there isn't (besides the huge dorsal cannons, mnd you). We however, being the smart fellows we are, know that this isn't true, as a ISD know doubt has light/medium/large TLs, and it is widley accepted too. And I reiterate, its gonna take a long, long time to put dozens of fighters in there places with a single bay.

Using my last point here, we can assume the MF was unlucky it wasn't trying to manuever, and so was captured by the big ones. The light ones were far out of range.

Your next point is confusing here Bean, first you say they were slowing it down with tractors, and then you say that they can't grip something as big as a Runner. By the way, how do you know the Runner was out-running the ISD? In any event they were designed to be fast. They have 11 engines that are probably more than 50% of the ships mass.

Its most likley that, while they did want prisoners, they couldn't fight back well on ground. In space, the transports were armed with TLs, probably-it is speculation. And could thus damage the ISD to the point hat it wouldn't be worth it.

Ok, skip asteroids, but before the asteroids it was doing some pretty fancy flying (when the ISDs collide I believe is the part your reffering to), and yes it buzzed past the bridge, and why does the bridge of a ship need tractors?

Six feet away from the landing pad? I know your exaggerating but in the movie we see the MF well away from Bespin by the time it has its run-in with the Executor. In the SE at least we see the sun rising over Bespin and the MF is well into deep space, where the Executor is waiting.

Again Bean how do you know they didn't? As I said before using fighters is no doubt much better than actually using tractors to kill fighters. So they send fighters, which could aslo be caught in atractor in case they missed, making them easy prey for a passer-by.

As for Rouges I reiterate character shields, but I'll getcha some real stuff goin here. We've got my argument about diffrent sized tractors, which seems to still be valid, and the fact that a few fighters can kill an ISD in that book is almost enough to disregard it anyways. Still ten big, bulky tractors cathching the best of the best pilots of snub fighters? I think not.

You can kill the Sun Crusher by throwing chunks of antimatter at it. It's made of matter, so parts of it will annihilate on contact. That'll burn through eventually even if the explosions do no damage.

Mr Bean wrote:

No no, in Champions of the Force, Han, albeit surprised, catches the Sun Crusher as it flies by in a tractor beam. It spun the Falcon around. Kyp didn't drive right back at the ship though. He threatens to shoot a torp at them.

By complete suprise as in he had no idea it would work, second Kyp was not moving very fast third KYP spun him around to face him not the Tractor(That much is easy to see or are all Tractors desgined to spin your target around so its got its weapons aimed at you?)
Third he indicats he could break the Tractor very easily the simple fact it was Han there held Kyp up for a second from just killing him, Look at what Happend on Carida when they tried to lock onto him

WTF!!! Stop asking Darkstar for your answers. Wait, I think I already covered one part. Oh yes. I said 'Han, albeit surprised, cathes the Sun Crusher...' Then you restate it in different words 'By complete surprise...He had no idea it would work...' Thank you professor profound. Second, bull shit. Kyp was darting around the Falcon. Third, Kyp didn't do shit but get caught. The momentum of the Sun Crusher flying by, caused a ship over twice it's size to SPIN around. Third? No fourth, watch Seasme Street, learn to count. Kyp NEVER indicates he can very EASILY break the tractor lock. Yeah, let's take a look at Carida. Page three of the paperback, the Sun Crusher's alarms go off, showing Carida trying to lock on with the tractor beam. Using his JEDI ENHANCED speed he worked the controls so they could not get a positive lock. Obviously, if they did get a lock, it should be evident that he couldn't break it. Otherwise, he wouldn't give a shit.

Actually, it could also be coupled with the point that the Falcon can jam signals

Which X-Wings and A-Wings don't have turned on though they carry them, the SC did not have any of that yet how did it easly evade all Tractors but when it was sitting very still and very close to Han?


NEXT!

A-Wings have Phantom 4x Jamming systems in place that are only effective against fighters and can jam communications. Plus, where does the information of X-Wings having jammers come from? Why wouldn't they have something that JAMS sensors on during combat? First, I already covered how the Sun Crusher evaded Carida. Second the Sun Crusher was not sitting STILL. It may have been close, due to it flying by. However, a slow moving target it was not.

Btw asshole, I'm a bigger asshole. Yelling next is just down right shitty. Seeing how your a closet trekkie and do not want to even bother showing us debating skills above Darkstar, I will have to overlook this incompetent post. In kind, fuck you Sir.

Mr Bean wrote:You people are ignoring somthing here


WHEN HAS THE TRACTORS ON ISDs, WORLD DEVSTATORS ect EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO PIN A FIGHTER SIZED CRAFT IN PLACE THAT IS NOT TRYING TO DODGE AND WHEN HAS IT EVER SHOW THE ABILITY TO HOLD THAT CRAFT IN PLACE!



I demand proof!
Remeber the SC is a fighter sized craft smaller than the MF and it has some speed and manvurablity on it

Yeah, let's ask Zahn. I am sure he was completely pulling it out of his ass when Luke's X-Wing was seized by a tractor beam.

Well I'm glad you remember the JAT *shudder* well enough to give some good hard evidence of tractor effientcy DG.

Pretty vehement post though doncha think? Beans good, he just thinks hes unbeatable because hes on the jedi council. Overconfidence is his weakness, to quote Luke .

Even in light of this new evidence, I think I'll stick with my argument, if only to be original.

But he can prolly beat me anyways, I'll just havta wait and see when he comes back.

Oh yeah, you haven't read the Jedi Academy Trilogy thread then. He just tries to make me look like a complete ass and that I have never even seen the books that I AM CURRENTLY READING. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't just make stuff up. Maybe he's good because nobody bothers to double check what he posts. Either way, I have stated, numerous examples that prove him wrong with hard evidence. Maybe I'll take the afternoon tomorrow to go through that list of examples he put down and just run through them.

use a powerful radiation spewing bomb in it's vicinity.

That'd kill the crew, and make the sun crusher yours.

Remember, Kyp ran from that planet(the name escapes me) because the radiation would've been too high had he stayed. This means the ship has shitty radiation shields.

So, once again, all you have to do to kill a Sun Crusher is ignite a big old neutron bomb. Voilla. The craft isn't a threat, and now you own a Sun Crusher.

So you try agian?
So be it!

The tractor in ANH might already be keeping the Blockade Runner from running ahead too far or jumping into hyperspace. But there's no need to reel it in immediately. It is a fish on your rope. No one tries to pull a big fish in right after it is caught. Knock or tire it out, THEN reel it in. You can't really reel it into your hangar until it is knocked out anyway.

FISHING? You compare Chasing a Hostil Vessel in a craft armed with Giga-ton level weaponry with FISH?(In Real life thats what? Chasing fish in a Moter boat with a shot gun and a RPG?)

And second thanks for helping me prove my point

You can't really reel it into your hangar until it is knocked out anyway.

THUSLY the point, the ship has to be inert for you to tractor it succesfuly
Thanks for Concceeding that

BTW, in HTTE, Thrawn tractored in an Assault Frigate to protect his weak starboard flank. It was held precisely in aspect (disarmed side towards destroyer) and position (covering the weakened shield section, close in.) It was apparently struggling too "clearly against its will (394)."

A Damaged Disabled Ship, but agian a CAPSHIP not a Fighter, And to boot it was heavly damaged.

Yes, I know that Chimaera's crew is working about 40% more effective than usual recently, but it at least shows that mechanistically, it is possible, and a sharp crew could get the job done.

No one's saying they are not being sharp but your talking somthing roughly seventy times the SC size you know, Its not hard to Tractor a Capship

Oh, and Luke WAS evading that day in HTTE. The Chimaera was starting to shoot at them, and Luke ordered for some power to be diverted to deflector as he began "giving his full attention to his best evasive maneuvering. (180)" So there is actually at least one example of a capship tractor beam getting a lock on a dodging fighter.

Acutal its not because the book does not saying anything about that
Page 181 is where he is caught as he is running up to Lightspeed
and to quote the section exactly
And without warning, Luke was slammed hard aginst his harness. The Star Destroyer's Tractor beam held them now. Artoo shrilled in dismay: but Luke had no time to confort the Droid now. His strait-lined course
[/i]
Thats the actual book quote, Luke was flying in a strait line preparing to run up to Lightspeed when he was caught, He was not manvoring or anything else just going in a nice strait easy to calcutate strait line
So much for that
Thanks agian for helping me prove my point

He wound up escaping with a desperation, last-ditch maneuver that apparently exceeded the max. accel parameters of the Imperial tractor beam

To be exact he came to a dead stop by reverse firing is Engines agian he was not manvoring or trying hard

Jeez, can't he see that he had locked onto two TINY targets instead of one fighter-sized target

Ahh but the book says otherwise
The computer lost the lock but seemed to pick it up agian right away. There was no way for me to know that it had realy picked up somthing else until- Until the proton torpedoes detonated aginst te projector? Yes sir
Keep in mind Pietrson was not killed for incompetnce but rather trying to blaim it on his Boss that he lost the lock to begin with NOT that he tractored in the Torps
Thanks for agian providing evidance to back me up, Aparnelty they can't tell if they are Tractoring in diffrent things like say
A resonance Torp? Rather than the Fighter Craft

Do remember that Luke did qualify to make that poll about the Best Pilot, so it isn't like they had a sitting duck on their hands.

Ahh but don't forget, they DID have a sitting duck on thier hands, Luke best pilot or not was flying in a strait line as its mentioned in EU as nessary before a calcuated jump into Hyperspace

The Ion Cannon most likely tried to support each one as it came out. Or do you think they fired precisely two shots in the whole battle against the Tyrant? Besides, I doubt they really care for more than a real small percentage of the Rebels. Shooting or killing the REST of them is perfectly fine.

Regardless as EU holds up the Tyrant was the only Star Destroyer Hit by the Ion Cannon, Second How in the Worlds could they know who and what was on each Transport? Until they saw the MF(And keep in mind they left AFTER the last Transport did) how did they know that Luke was not on the first or the sixth Transport hmm?
Do you think the Rebels kindly told them?

Their ability to TARGET something depends on their tachymetric FCS and ECCM on small targets, and they do sorely lack the needed performance, as do HTL batteries.

Except the only time they've ever caught Fighters was when they had no ECCM running and where flying in a Strait Line or do you have another example Besides Skywalker as I've already TORN THAT APART


Now onto a Certian Gnome, Not Content with one round with me he stumbles back for another

If an ISD has a single tractor to reel in fighters, its gonna take a hell of a long time to reel in dozens of fighters and bombers who need to refuel/rearm no? Indeed we have canon evidence of ten tractors on an ISD, but would tiny little fighter tractors in a hanger be important enough to mention in any EU source?

LOL Your acutaly claming that when we are given the Specficiations of a ISD and they mention everything from the Point Defense Lasers to the Tractor beams and they leave somthing out because it does not matter? Sure and every ISD has a Star-Bucks and a Time Machine onboard, of course they never mention it anywhere because why should it matter?
Agian as before I can safly repeat myself and say you have no evidance for this, Oh and second Why would little Fighter Tractors in the Hanger be Important enough to mention? Because Little Anti-Fighter Defenses in the Hanger and on the Ship ARE important enough to mention
Furthermore why are you so insitant that they need them? TIEs have Engines and repulselifts after all...

Nitpick here, but I'll get into it anyways. Bean are you to tell me you don't believe that the SW universe doesn't have craft larger than 1600 long? I don't care about mass, that doesn't have to do with how the ship fits inside something like the DS. After all to feed X number of people (millions?) your gona want abunch of big ships restocking you. But that should go without saying.

1600 Long? Inchs? Feet? Meters? If your saying that the biggest Craft that SW has are ISD you seem to be contradicting yourself in saying they have Tractors designed to Tractor things bigger than ISDs. Why? You don't explain. Evidance? You don't provide If your acutaly going to say anything anytime soon you can back up with Cannon
Lemme know

Yes it says a set number of tractors. It also says a set number of TLs. By your logic ALL of an ISDs or DSs TLs will be of the same type, since no source specifies that there isn't (besides the huge dorsal cannons, mnd you

Straw-man your putting words in my mouth, And furthermoe we do have information for diffrent Sized TL on ISD and the DS, I have no idea what your trying to do here except critisim my logic in a veery bad way...
We know we have diffrent sized and diffrent numbers of TL on the ISD, But do we know of Diffrent Sized Tractors than small Fighter Sized and Cap ship mounted?
No?
Do you have any evidance for them?
No?

Why are you still trying?

And I reiterate, its gonna take a long, long time to put dozens of fighters in there places with a single bay.

Agian I repeat, those Fighters have built in Repuslerlifts and Furthmore thanks to X-Wing Series, Darksaber, VOTF and a few other books where Ships land UNDER THERE OWN POWER in the Hangers, WHY do you need these never before mentioned Tractors if we know the ships can do it themsleves?

Using my last point here, we can assume the MF was unlucky it wasn't trying to manuever, and so was captured by the big ones. The light ones were far out of range.

The MF was quite a distance away flying in a strait line when it was Tractored

The X-Wings and Y-Wings where even Closer flying in a Strait line IN FORMATION when they broke by pairs and started the attack
And as I said they where flying right at the Centerline where the Hangers and Large Trators are located

And yet they where not held in place by Tractors why?
Maybe just Maybe like the rest of the Movies and the EU where anything besides a Fighter flying in a Strait line.. They CAN'T Tractor them hmm?

Ok, skip asteroids, but before the asteroids it was doing some pretty fancy flying (when the ISDs collide I believe is the part your reffering to), and yes it buzzed past the bridge, and why does the bridge of a ship need tractors?

They Collided in AHN and it helps me demostrate my point about a rapidly manvoring Craft can not be caught by Tractors, Second they have a Tractor mounted under the Bridge but it was not used now was it?
Maybe beacause a Small Craft Manvoring can't be caught by a Tractor?

Six feet away from the landing pad? I know your exaggerating but in the movie we see the MF well away from Bespin by the time it has its run-in with the Executor. In the SE at least we see the sun rising over Bespin and the MF is well into deep space, where the Executor is waiting.

Thusly my point agian the MF Flew AT the Excutor then pulled in close to it, why not Tractor it during that time it was flying towards it? hmm?
Maybe beacause a Small Craft Manvoring can't be caught by a Tractor?

Again Bean how do you know they didn't? As I said before using fighters is no doubt much better than actually using tractors to kill fighters. So they send fighters, which could aslo be caught in atractor in case they missed, making them easy prey for a passer-by.

Your contradicting yourself, Even though the Tractors are good enough to Grap Fighters as you say without provding any evidance of that you suddnely say that they don't do it because Fighters are better?

In Solo Command when the Iron First is being attacked and does not have any Fighters Covering it why don't they Tractor any?
Whem the Razor's Kiss and the Iron Fist are attacked why don't they do that? Despite the fact they don't have any Fighters because they are not launching them

As for Rouges I reiterate character shields, but I'll getcha some real stuff goin here. We've got my argument about diffrent sized tractors, which seems to still be valid, and the fact that a few fighters can kill an ISD in that book is almost enough to disregard it anyways. Still ten big, bulky tractors cathching the best of the best pilots of snub fighters? I think not.

LAMO! Your Conradicting yourself here and proving my Point
You say they are Agile enough to Grap Luke(The Best Pilot in the Galaxy as Kazuaki calls him) yet not good enough to get Lesser Pilots? And then you call them big and Bulky implingy they are not quick enough to catch them.
All to Easy Gnome
You don't have any evidance to back up what your saying and so far have yet to provide a concreat example of the Tractoring of a Manvoring Fighter and have yet to disprove any of the provdided Evidance...

Next!

You can kill the Sun Crusher by throwing chunks of antimatter at it. It's made of matter, so parts of it will annihilate on contact. That'll burn through eventually even if the explosions do no damage.

I won't even go into how idiotic this is but Suffice it to say you know what happens to Anti-Matter out of a Contament Field?
It exploses


Now onto DG_CAL and his feebel attempts and Ad-Homean attacks

WTF!!! Stop asking Darkstar for your answers. Wait, I think I already covered one part. Oh yes. I said 'Han, albeit surprised, cathes the Sun Crusher...' Then you restate it in different words 'By complete surprise...He had no idea it would work... Thank you professor profound

Darkstar? Ehh what does the Wall of Preputal Ignorance have to do with this?
Second the reason I restated it Captian Brillant was because he never excepted it to succeded, indicating that he did not think that possible, Tell me if I jumped twenty feet in the Air would you be Suprized?
Second agian the Falcon and the SC where realtivly close and Kyp was flying in a Strait Line(You do know what a Strifing Run looks like?) despite both of these things Han is suprised implying he did not think even with it being THAT easy he could still catch him

Page three of the paperback, the Sun Crusher's alarms go off, showing Carida trying to lock on with the tractor beam. Using his JEDI ENHANCED speed he worked the controls so they could not get a positive lock. Obviously, if they did get a lock, it should be evident that he couldn't break it. Otherwise, he wouldn't give a shit

Tell me could those TIEs they sent at him do anything either? Then why did he waste his time Dogfighting with a few of them?
Second Kyp was in a stable Orbit
Whats that look like?
A Strait LINE and he reacted with Jedi Speed to the fact they where trying to Tractor him after that he simply used a Random orbit to break it and furthermore if he could not break it why does he say as they try and lock the tractor on him I am not here to play games prehaps because he could break the Lock if he wanted to?

A-Wings have Phantom 4x Jamming systems in place that are only effective against fighters and can jam communications. Plus, where does the information of X-Wings having jammers come from? Why wouldn't they have something that JAMS sensors on during combat? First, I already covered how the Sun Crusher evaded Carida. Second the Sun Crusher was not sitting STILL. It may have been close, due to it flying by. However, a slow moving target it was not.

The Fact that X-Wings during Solo Command Can Jam Communcations and the quote is here somonewhere of Wedge mention that will all the ECCM and counter ECCM that generaly space battles Dedgdated into Visual Range because Sensors where jammed so often
This was thought as he fliped on his jammers mind you...
Second as I've said before
Kyp was flying IN Orbit meaningly slowly and two IN a STRAIT LINE
Mearly osilating his orbit at Random was enough for them not to be able to get a lock on him

Yeah, let's ask Zahn. I am sure he was completely pulling it out of his ass when Luke's X-Wing was seized by a tractor beam.

Already addressed

Btw asshole, I'm a bigger asshole. Yelling next is just down right shitty. Seeing how your a closet trekkie and do not want to even bother showing us debating skills above Darkstar, I will have to overlook this incompetent post. In kind, fuck you Sir.

Thanks for the ad-Homean attacks have a nice day

And lastly FireNexus novel idea

Remember, Kyp ran from that planet(the name escapes me) because the radiation would've been too high had he stayed. This means the ship has shitty radiation shields.

A Star Went Nova next to him blew up the Planet he was just about to land on(Cracked it in half) and it did nothing more than Toss the Ship around and you say it has Shitty Radition shields?
NTM the Entire Flight to and From the Maw next to all those Black Holes which emite quite powerful Raditiation

Already anyone else have some bright ideas I can quash?

Mr Bean wrote:So you try agian?
So be it!

Uh, Mr. Bean, it is my first try on this topic IIRC.

FISHING? You compare Chasing a Hostil Vessel in a craft armed with Giga-ton level weaponry with FISH?(In Real life thats what? Chasing fish in a Moter boat with a shot gun and a RPG?)

And second thanks for helping me prove my point

Of course it is fishing! You have a line and a struggling target. In both cases, the idea is to wait till resistance is weak. It is easier and safer that way.

THUSLY the point, the ship has to be inert for you to tractor it succesfuly
Thanks for Concceeding that

No one said that. Have you considered the detrimental effects of engine exhaust into your fucking hangar bay even if you have it tractored, or it shooting back if you try and reel it all the way in before it is neutralized. A bomb is inert too (in terms of fighting your tractor.) Do YOU want to tractor the bomb in without disabling its arming electronics FIRST, even though the tractor would be a total piece of shit if it can't even tractor that?

A Damaged Disabled Ship, but agian a CAPSHIP not a Fighter, And to boot it was heavly damaged.

1) This is in direct response to your brilliant postulation that in Bacta War, they were just sucking it in rather than locking it into position. Just wanted to tell you it won't work.
2) The weapons apparently work fine enough on the starboard side, and if one could tell it is trying to break free...it is damaged, but not disabled.
3) This has nothing to do with fighters! This is a BTW on the way to the topic.

Thats the actual book quote, Luke was flying in a strait line preparing to run up to Lightspeed when he was caught, He was not manvoring or anything else just going in a nice strait easy to calcutate strait line
So much for that
Thanks agian for helping me prove my point

OK, he stabilized a course, but then you need to stabilize for many other things as well, especially bombing runs.

To be exact he came to a dead stop by reverse firing is Engines agian he was not manvoring or trying hard

You mean, a reverse-triggering of the acceleration compensator that apparently produced a delta-v greater than his main thrusters could provide and nearly killed the hyperdrive outright from a power surge is "not maneuvering or trying hard."

Keep in mind Pietrson was not killed for incompetnce but rather trying to blaim it on his Boss that he lost the lock to begin with NOT that he tractored in the Torps
Thanks for agian providing evidance to back me up, Aparnelty they can't tell if they are Tractoring in diffrent things like say
A resonance Torp? Rather than the Fighter Craft

I disagree UTTERLY with your interpretation of what happened. Pieterson CLAIMED that he had no way of knowing and that he was never taught how to tell the difference. Conclazure, however, claimed that the standard training package DID teach them how to tell the difference between reacquisition on a true or false target. Pieterson never even directly blamed his boss, just said he was never taught. If no such technique existed in the training package, than Pieterson would have been blameless and truthful (geez, there really was nothing in the training package about it right?,) and we see in TLC that if a man is blameless, Thrawn even promotes them for initiative. If such a technique existed, and he didn't use it, then claimed he never learned it, then chances are he was sleeping during the lesson and trying to shift blame off himself. THAT was why he was shot.

Ahh but don't forget, they DID have a sitting duck on thier hands, Luke best pilot or not was flying in a strait line as its mentioned in EU as nessary before a calcuated jump into Hyperspace

At best, he stabilized briefly. And remember Luke was evading even as he prepared for lightspeed AFTER breaking free (182-183.) I really doubt that he just STOPPED for the precise few seconds the tractor got him.

Regardless as EU holds up the Tyrant was the only Star Destroyer Hit by the Ion Cannon, Second How in the Worlds could they know who and what was on each Transport? Until they saw the MF(And keep in mind they left AFTER the last Transport did) how did they know that Luke was not on the first or the sixth Transport hmm?
Do you think the Rebels kindly told them?

Full solutions for the Tyrant please. Did they say "the ion cannon ceased firing altogether after hitting the Tyrant?" Did they say "the ion cannon was destroyed shortly thereafter?" Or did they just fail to remind you that the ion cannon is still shooting?

I'm sure lifeform sensors go a long way. If there are no humans on board, then Luke is not on it. Many of the vessels held equpment and other species. Then there's Vader's precognition. And it is always true that a disabled vessel is a far better target for boarding than a working one that is fighting your ropes every bit of the way.

Except the only time they've ever caught Fighters was when they had no ECCM running and where flying in a Strait Line or do you have another example Besides Skywalker as I've already TORN THAT APART

I would doubt that. Good evasive technique help. I'll say that it is determined by FCS laying. If they can get a gun on target, they can direct a tractor.

First Kazuaki if you notice I rebuttted more than just you in there thats what that first part refers to

Frankly I'm trying to get you all to grasp this is a near exact copy of the Classic Trecky Aurgment of Transports being able to *Fling people off ships at will except your saying Hold them there at will, Niether aurgment has proof to support it and when you look at it, is planaly redicuouslus

Second I'll get somthing out of the way

Of course it is fishing! You have a line and a struggling target. In both cases, the idea is to wait till resistance is weak. It is easier and safer that way.

This is in direct response to your brilliant postulation that in Bacta War, they were just sucking it in rather than locking it into position. Just wanted to tell you it won't work.

If you notice I concided the point that Trators can hold somthing in place and I was mentioning it as an aside, I've concceded that there is proof of Tractors being able to hold somthing in place fine forget it, I already said I conceded that

OK, he stabilized a course, but then you need to stabilize for many other things as well, especially bombing runs.

As Corran was nice to Demostrate you don't have to fly Strait for a Bombing Run
Still the fact remains you have no evidance of a Tractor being able to hold a Manvoring Fighter

You mean, a reverse-triggering of the acceleration compensator that apparently produced a delta-v greater than his main thrusters could provide and nearly killed the hyperdrive outright from a power surge is "not maneuvering or trying hard."

Don't try and Tecno-babble it away its very clear what he did
He came to a full and complete stop, Also helping me prove my point that Tractors are not all that accurate

I disagree UTTERLY with your interpretation of what happened. Pieterson CLAIMED that he had no way of knowing and that he was never taught how to tell the difference. Conclazure, however, claimed that the standard training package DID teach them how to tell the difference between reacquisition on a true or false target. Pieterson never even directly blamed his boss, just said he was never taught.

Never directly blamed his Boss? His boss who was in charge of Training him?
He blaimed his boss and did not take responsbility for his actions THUS Thrawns line about a mistake only becomes and Error if you refuse to correct it
Had he said I screwed up such as the other guy who probably would have lived, Instead he tried to cover his ass and Thrawn had him killed. Remeber Thrawn's not Vadar there are numrous people who screw up and he does not kill, However when they refuse to take reponsiblity for thier falure he does, Witnes the Destruction of the Half Completed ISD, The guy in charge of Base Security does not even get demoted while Peollon said he would have had him shot or at the very least removed from Command

Pure and simple Pieterson screwed up thats understanbled, However blaiming his Boss for his screw-up was his *error and why he died

At best, he stabilized briefly. And remember Luke was evading even as he prepared for lightspeed AFTER breaking free (182-183.) I really doubt that he just STOPPED for the precise few seconds the tractor got him.

He did not Stop he moved in a strait line why the Tractor got him and yes he was Evading after he broke free but he had to have stoped and leveled out to go on into Hyperspace or do you want to dispute everything from the Movies down to WEG where a ship most level out for a controled Hyperspace jump(Bacta War for example Corran Says that as long as a Ship is Jinking it can't go to Lightspeed but must remain in level flight)
And besides it quite nicley explains how Luke managed to get hit if he is after all the best pilot in the galaxy as you claim that explains how he got hit at all

Full solutions for the Tyrant please. Did they say "the ion cannon ceased firing altogether after hitting the Tyrant?" Did they say "the ion cannon was destroyed shortly thereafter?" Or did they just fail to remind you that the ion cannon is still shooting?

EU mentions the Cannon has a slow firing rate and did not support all the Transports(Flying of the planet from one spot makes it rather easy to shoot them down)

I'm sure lifeform sensors go a long way. If there are no humans on board, then Luke is not on it. Many of the vessels held equpment and other species. Then there's Vader's precognition. And it is always true that a disabled vessel is a far better target for boarding than a working one that is fighting your ropes every bit of the way.

Except I don't think they had time to sort them into Human and Non-Human only Transports do you? Second Vadar's Precog must be broken as he ends up chasing after Solo and Leia and Luke is left alone or did that never occure to you(Also the MF was the last ship off Hoth)
Also we know Hoth was a near 100% Human Base and thats just from watching the sceans in which they are walking around the base and observing all the Humans walking around

And it is always true that a disabled vessel is a far better target for boarding than a working one that is fighting your ropes every bit of the way.

Its also true that a Non-Moving Target is much easier to Disable than a moving one yet we don't see them doing that do we?

I'll say that it is determined by FCS laying. If they can get a gun on target, they can direct a tractor

First kindly define FCS as its not a term I'm familiar with and second you say that but agian

You have no proof










Face it the point is simple if Tractors could grap Fighters then the Rebel Allance would not have lasted very long, The Fighters at Yavin 4 flew right AT the Tracotors and yet where not touched. Any ISD could easly hold of a few Squadrens of Fighters by pinning them in place and destroying them with point defense yet we never EVER see them doing this

How about just maybe its because they can't?
When I started this post I compared this aurgment with that of the Trekky Fantasy of using Transporters to beam the whole crew of an ISD or Planet into Space
We never see them demonstrate the ability to do this and we can safly conculded they CANT, So why are you fighting this so much?

A Manvoring Fighter can not be grabed by a Tractor, Untill you have evidance of this EVER occuring the rest is guess-work and speculation

"A Manvoring Fighter can not be grabed by a Tractor, Untill you have evidance of this EVER occuring the rest is guess-work and speculation"

Such evidence has already been provided and you have chossen to ignore it.

Such evidence has already been provided and you have chossen to ignore it.

Oh realy Alyeska care to point it out?

I could say you choose to ignore evidance that your acutaly a rabbid moron but if I don't provided evidance or quote any it just makes me look like a rabbib moron agreeded?


Gnome, Kazuaki, DG_Cal_Wright
Still waiting for Evidance of a succesful Tractoring of a Manvoring Fighter
Come on you gotta have somthing

Mr Bean wrote:

I thought of a problem with the ramming. Unless it's much heavier than a starfighter, it wouldn't be good for ramming. It would survive the impact undented, though. With the same mass as a starfighter, it would have the same KE.

Thats not the point it may have the same KE as a Figter(Acutal more its slightly large we have no mass numbers on the ship itself and its shaped like a Diamond(IE Pointy focusing the KE) and unlike a Fighter after it his
IT CAN KEEP GOING

Remeber A-Wing VS Bridge Windows is like Fist VS Glass Door
While the SC is more like a Base-ball bat (It can survie to hit quite a few more windows)

I was thinking that it rammed with it's front. With it's pointy bottom, it would be much more damaging. How did it ram in the books? And if it doesn't break the window, it could bounce off and hit it again. On another realted note, I wouls say the SC would be more of a spear, or a really tough bullet.

GravShock device. The Suncrusher has been shown to be affected by gravity, and a sudden blast from this device should damage it internally.

What else could do it....

Hyperpulse mines or whatever they are. Collision while in Hyper = Bad.

Bean: "Come on you gotta have something"

Oh I do Bean, I was just cruising through the classic ICS, and I happen to come across some startling evidence, behold the quote, from the TIE fighter section: "TIEs are launched from cycling racks of up to 72 ships in the larger hanger, smaller hangers may have as few as two ships. Pilots board from overhead gantries, and are released into space as they disengage from the front position in the rack system. Returning ships land in seperate hangers, where they are guided into receiver-carriers by small tractor beams."

TA DA! There you have it Bean, conceed or present some evidence against this, as it seems the tables have turned!

I'll let you see this, deal wiht it how you will, then I'll see what I can rebuttal from my last post.

Returning ships land in seperate hangers, where they are guided into receiver-carriers by small tractor beams.

TA DA! There you have it Bean, conceed or present some evidence against this, as it seems the tables have turned!

First not quite as the orgional point was could a Fighter Sized Craft be caught and held by a Tractor beam, that is the orgional point, everything after that was an aside

And I ask you Gnome to kindly provided information on Range and Power of these Tractors
Defense is Depth
Best thing since Sliced Bread

Yes but bread itself is better than nothing.

They're probably located inside the hangers, obviously. So their range is most likely short. There power is enough to hold a TIE fighter, so nothing fantastic.

As for capturing a fighter with a tractor, why not just mass-beam into an area with said fighter? We know they can capture fighters, and if you put a lot of beams into one area, they're bound to capture something. I don't see why that isn't a viable tactic.

As for capturing a fighter with a tractor, why not just mass-beam into an area with said fighter? We know they can capture fighters, and if you put a lot of beams into one area, they're bound to capture something. I don't see why that isn't a viable tactic.

Simple you seem to forget those are WILLING Ships

There has yet to be provided evidance of one thing

A Fighter Sized Craft NOT sitting still or Flying in a Strait line being caught by a Tractor of Capship power(The kind nessary to hold the SC still)
Untill you can provided Evidance of that you have nothing

And why is required to use a cap ship tratcor? Does the SC seem to have some god-engines that can get through a tractor beam of less power?

Furthermore, you missed the point, a fighter can, ie- it is possible, for a fighter to be captured in a tractor beam, and held there.

So tell me Bean, is it so hard to comprehend this: Losta ships=lotsa tratcor beams. Lotsa tractor beams=harder for said ship to escape. Just because we mightnot have evidence of a manuevring fighter getting caught in a tractor beam doesn't mean its impossible, for that is a very silly assumption.

Just like if you put a bunch of shots from an ISDs heavy dorsal cannons into one area you canhit a TIE Defender. Not easy, but possible. And I can easily see it happening.

Can you see my point? Capturing the SC isn't as impossible as you make it seem.

As an aside, do you have some kinda obsession with the SC? You seem to speak of it highly quite a bit, ecspecially when somebody mentions super weapons.[/i]

And why is required to use a cap ship tratcor? Does the SC seem to have some god-engines that can get through a tractor beam of less power?

Yes it is acutaly becuase a Fighter Tractor is ment to hold small cooperation objects in place not fast uncorapative ones, Witness how the Blockade Runner was escaping in AHN(It was outrunning the ISD before the core was shut-down that and it had TWO Cap-ship Tractors in range and orination to be able to easly target it(To say nothing of the ones along the centerline possibly there, I know there are 10 Tractors but I've only been able to place 4 of them)
Second it has to be Cap ship Tractor because a Fighter sized one just means the SC throws itself at the emiter and makes a nice Hole in it

Furthermore, you missed the point, a fighter can, ie- it is possible, for a fighter to be captured in a tractor beam, and held there.

You make it sound like I said Fighters are Sprinkled with Magic Anti-Tractor Fairy Dust no thats not what I said, I said there are no Cannon Examples of a Manvoring Fighter being caught by a Tractor, IE one that is trying not to be caught

And simply put its not been done its NOT an Easy thing to do its neigh impossible

So tell me Bean, is it so hard to comprehend this: Losta ships=lotsa tratcor beams. Lotsa tractor beams=harder for said ship to escape. Just because we might not have evidence of a manuevring fighter getting caught in a tractor beam doesn't mean its impossible, for that is a very silly assumption.

And these Lotsa Ships come from where(I mean in the sense where are they going to pop up and just happen to surround the SC)? And are you forgting the second half of the Equation. The Reasonance Torps the SC carres are VERY good Cap-Ship Killers(Besides the burrowing through the Hull thing) as they impart DIRECT HEAT(Millions of Degrees of it, also there seems to be a chain reaction of some sort similar to the Doctor Device in Enders game but its very limited)

The fact remains the SC can kill any Cap Ship VERY Quickly by Either Torping it or smashing a trail of descrution through the Hull and maybe killing the Cooling Section of the Main Reactor to hmm? After all the SC can withstand it

Second every ship you throw at it and the SC destroyes is yet more Debries in the battle field and by your own admission thats an even WORSE situation for the Tractor beams(It would get more crowed than the Hoth Astroid belt reaaaal quick)


And finaly a point

Just like if you put a bunch of shots from an ISDs heavy dorsal cannons into one area you can hit a TIE Defender. Not easy, but possible. And I can easily see it happening.

Your missing the point of a Tractor, Sure its hard to hit Defenders with HTL but it can happen(Rarley) but a Tractor by its very Nature is diffrent, It must not only hit its target not once, not twice but a few hundred times eac second for it to stop/draw/push a Ship away

This is not Hit
TADA its CAUGHT!
It must be hit and Held
Somthing a Manvoring Fighter can easly prevent

When will you acknowledge the shear impracticality of what your suggesting(May I remind you of another person who tried this, give you a hint Her names Daala)


Killing the Sun-Crusher is Easy if you know what your doing but as I've said these methods WONT work
Extreme Heat or Pressure do not affect the Ship, Niether does HTL, The DS could kill it but then it would be hard to hit and it faces the same problem of the Sun-Crusher getting in close and playing Bull-dozer

As an aside, do you have some kinda obsession with the SC? You seem to speak of it highly quite a bit, ecspecially when somebody mentions super weapons

To be honset no despite the fact I'd love to have it as a Personal ride I hate everything KJA and wish his books stricken from the Memory of all
This is me mearly pointing out Flawed thinking and when pushed defending it as any good Debator would with Soild Concete Evidance

Somthing you keep failing to provided

I said from the Beginig you would not succed and still despite all your attempts I can safly stand here and proclaim that I was right, you did not succeded and you can't because I read every single EU book(And by accident and Intent) come into possesion of every single EU book outside of the NR series(Have not read any of them either)

To repeat above as I feel BF 1942 Calling for another round of attemping to snipe things without client side prediction I'll reterate

What I set out to prove that was Tractors are by nature both Clumsy, short ranged and useless aginst small fast moving objects

So far no one has been able to breach that position even remotly
And I never had to go to my second or third lines of Defense for that one Consiering the fact that Tractors would make Handy Anti Proton Torp Devices yet are never used this way prehaps agian because they are clusmy, short ranged and useless aginst small fast moving objects