Greetings from Darth Mencken

[Broomstick]

Most suicide bombers these days are Muslim, so it's really extending a current trend forward. It's not an uncommon tactic in science fiction. Really, it's like someone writing in the 1950's that a Russian of 2000 would be communist - not 100% true these days but a logical extrapolation from the world of 1950.

[Darth Mencken]

Why are all terrorists Muslim in your eyes?

Not all. Just MOST of those who've been bedeviling the US (and our good friend Israel, among others) of late. True or false?

And they've been doing this since LONG before we decided to go back to Iraq, so we can't blame the Cheney-Bush regime entirely here!

[Darth Mencken]

Most suicide bombers these days are Muslim, so it's really extending a current trend forward. It's not an uncommon tactic in science fiction. Really, it's like someone writing in the 1950's that a Russian of 2000 would be communist - not 100% true these days but a logical extrapolation from the world of 1950.

The USSR collapsing in the early 1990's took even the CIA by surprise. It was the ultimate black swan (I don't mean the movie where Mila Kunis goes down on Darth Vader's wife). Before this happened, any writer (SF or otherwise) would've been justified in depicting the USSR still existing a century or more in the future.

[Dr Roberts]

Except from 1980 to 2005 94% of terrorist actions were carried out by Non Muslims. You had 7 % committed by Jews but how many Jewish terrorists can you name? The media doesn't like to potray the Non Muslims as terrorists preferring to label them as mass murderers which doesn't quite have that feel to it as terrorists.

[madd0ct0r]

I still can't find anything on Penthyl, but a handwaved bio-explosive is probably ok for this situation.

As for "all teerorists are muslim" - the vast majority of terrorist attacks on the US are homegrown, but we don't need ANOTHER shootings thread

EDIT: Dr Roberts puts it better.

[Broomstick]

We are not, however, talking about all terrorists in this context, we are talking about suicide bombers, a subset of terrorists. That is not a tactic used by "homegrown" US terrorists such as Timothy McVeigh or the Unabomber, it wasn't used by the IRA (at least not that I know of), it's not used by the Basque ETA... can someone name a group outside of Muslim ones that uses suicide bombers as a frequent tactic?

[Zaune]

It's not a group, but I've always thought that spree-killings are pretty similar in principle. A bit more spontaneous for the most part, and maybe a lot of them don't think they're politically motivated, but I imagine the state of mind you have to be in to commit either form of suicide attack is much the same.

[Thanas]

We are not, however, talking about all terrorists in this context, we are talking about suicide bombers, a subset of terrorists. That is not a tactic used by "homegrown" US terrorists such as Timothy McVeigh or the Unabomber, it wasn't used by the IRA (at least not that I know of), it's not used by the Basque ETA... can someone name a group outside of Muslim ones that uses suicide bombers as a frequent tactic?

Russian anarchists used a suicide bomber attack to kill Alexander II. That group of course is defunct now.

[Broomstick]

Interesting, though, and noted for future reference.

[madd0ct0r]

Wiki has some good stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack

the IRA did briefly experiment, but not with true suicide attacks: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-20786575.html
They were denounced as followers of satan and dropped the tactic: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/28/world ... tacks.html

I knew the Viet Minh / Viet Cong used them against tanks: pictured as number 4. http://www.thecitythatneversleepsin.com ... eries.html
And the Japanese got a bit notorious towards the end of WWII, but the circumstances seem to require very strong ideology under a huge asymmetric power disadvantage. At the minute, American and Israeli troops are the ones causing that level of disadvantage hence they're the targets. (looking at the examples, America is the common theme! (except for the IRA, where they were funding them...)

If South Korea rolled into North Korea, you'd see them happening. A protracted war between Vietnam and China, you'd see them happening. America rolls into South America, you'd see them happening. The Cylons take control of the human camps... um.

[LaCroix]

There was one attempt at Hitler using a suicide bombing, but the (timed) fuses took too long, and Hitler left early, allegedly for being spooked by the strange behavior of von Gersdorff.

[Darth Mencken]

We are not, however, talking about all terrorists in this context, we are talking about suicide bombers, a subset of terrorists. That is not a tactic used by "homegrown" US terrorists such as Timothy McVeigh or the Unabomber, it wasn't used by the IRA (at least not that I know of), it's not used by the Basque ETA... can someone name a group outside of Muslim ones that uses suicide bombers as a frequent tactic?

The (now-defunct) "Tamil Tigers," of Sri Lanka. Believe they pioneered the explosive vest, or some other now-familiar suicide bombing tactic.

[mr friendly guy]

Why are all terrorists Muslim in your eyes?

Maybe I missed something, but how does that follow from what he wrote?

While it doesn't 100% follow, calling them Homo JIHADI kind of raises eye brows.

[salm]

Why? It would be named after something that it is well known for.
If you talk about crusaders you don´t necessarily talk about christian fundamentalist invaders.

Furthermore there are plenty of terrorists who don´t use suicidal tactics, so even if Homo Jihadi implied that all suicide bombers are muslim it wouldn´t imply that all terrorists are.

[Dr Roberts]

Yeah but who would agree to name a species something that would piss off a billion people? Also Jihadi doesn't mean explode so I don't see how it's the official name of this retarded concept.

[salm]

I dont see how that is relevant to the question if the guy thinks that all terrorists are muslims.

[Stark]

Russian anarchists used a suicide bomber attack to kill Alexander II. That group of course is defunct now.

What's the importance of separating 'suicide bombers' from any killer who expects or intends to die? Using explosives really took off in the 19th century, but lunatics and fanatics have been willing to die to kill people for thousands of years.

Weren't there a whole bunch of suicidal assassinations and attempted assassinations in America throughout its history?

[Broomstick]

There certainly have been assassinations in US history... can't recall too many where it was obvious that the assassins wasn't just risking death but intended to use his manner of death as the means of carrying out an assassination. That, too my mind, is the difference: there are those who go in expecting to die but who would be happy to live another day, and those who intend to use the manner of their own death to kill other people.

[Darth Mencken]

Yeah but who would agree to name a species something that would piss off a billion people? Also Jihadi doesn't mean explode so I don't see how it's the official name of this retarded concept.

Actually, being a Jihadi (broad sense - Current genetically-unmodified Humans who do this), IS considered something to be proud of by many (if not everyone) in the culture explicitly indicated to be where the Homo Jihadi hail from in the story. A real, "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" situation here.

Waging Jihad (holy war, VERY often interpreted currently as involving violence, with the individual's physical survival being given VERY low priority at best) is being pushed as a religious obligation (by numerous mullahs and other Islamic religious authorities, and governments who identify with such) in nations where current Jihadi (again, ordinary Human ones, for now) mostly hail from.

And not all, but a non-trivial number of current Jihadi do indeed secret explosives on (or inside) their persons, with the intent of sacrificing their own lives in order to slay "infidels" (including members of Muslim sects other than the suicide attacker's own - Sunni vs. Shiite is QUITE common), and shake others up. One thing I'll admit, whether suicide attackers are gengineered or not, when life is considered so disposable all around (i.e. Two or more sects or other groups using suicide attacks against each other), seems it would make one think, "Huh, so what if they blow up a few of our Jihadi before they get sent out on a mission?"

So calling genmodded Human suicide bombers who hail from this culture, "Homo Jihadi," makes obvious sense, and may even be taken as flattery by said Homo Jihadi and their makers.

[Losonti Tokash]

Are you fucking serious?

[Stark]

There certainly have been assassinations in US history... can't recall too many where it was obvious that the assassins wasn't just risking death but intended to use his manner of death as the means of carrying out an assassination. That, too my mind, is the difference: there are those who go in expecting to die but who would be happy to live another day, and those who intend to use the manner of their own death to kill other people.

That's probably more because people didn't spontaneously explode in 1427. When President McKinley was assassinated, do you honestly believe the assassin expected to escape? Assassins - especially ideologically motivated assassins - have been willing to die to get their target for thousands of years. It's just way easier now; you don't have to sneak up to someone and then stab them and hope they die while you're butchered by security forces or shoot them while staring them in the eyes; you can just get nearby and explode without any valuable skills being lost. All kinds of extremists used explosives (or attempted to) in the 19th century and earlier.

If anything made suicide bombing more common than it had been, it was the development of extremely stable and powerful explosives.

[Dr Roberts]

Stupidity not included

One, the majority of people in the Middle East do not support blowing people up.
Also, terrorists don't get to choose the SCIENTIFIC NAME of a Species.

I also find it suspect that these terrorists are capable of this so soon.

[Darth Mencken]

Are you fucking serious?

About what precisely? Not ALL Middle Easterners, or Muslims, share the POV I describe. But if NONE, or only a trivial number, did, would we have the problems we've had since even before 9/11?

[Darth Mencken]

Stupidity not included

One, the majority of people in the Middle East do not support blowing people up.
Also, terrorists don't get to choose the SCIENTIFIC NAME of a Species.

I also find it suspect that these terrorists are capable of this so soon.

1) Right. The MAJORITY don't. But the percentage seems a bit higher than elsewhere.

2) Probably right. I don't believe I specified in the story where the name comes from. It could very well be a slang term hung on them by their enemies.

3) Also probably right. The main advantage these terrorists would have, is they already place low value on Human life, so would feel free to experiment in ways others wouldn't. Genmodding Humans honestly MIGHT never happen (George W. and Leon Kass may be out of favor in the US, but their views are by no means dead - And in Europe, folks worry obsessively about genmod FOOD!). Terrorists might have more difficulty accessing the expertise and hardware ("rogue, disgraced, or just supremely mercenary or desperate for work, gengineers"), but the developed world might have both a shortage of will, and lingering squeamishness about the "Frankenstein phenomenon."

[Metahive]

Bullshit logic fail. If third-world terrorists had the knowledge and resources to bioengineer people at will, why would they even need to resort to suicide bombing? The latter is a desperate attack, borne out of the enormous power disparity between first and third world. In shorter words, suicide bombing is a means, not an end in itself. I frankly find this whole proposal incredibly offensive, tongue in cheek or not.