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Stark wrote:Can you explain a bit about the ideological side, which isn't touched on in anything I've read? I'm glad to see it's still there, because that's really the only thing that made Asscreed one interesting from a story perspective.

A central theme of the game, at least as far as I'm concerned, is how the Templars believe that the truth is whatever you make it, while the Assassin's believe nothing is true. I shouldn't have to point out how similar this is, conceptually. If nothing is true, as the Assassin's believe, then anything can be made true, as the Templars believe. Altair talks about this idea of making the truth a little in the Codex you collect. I think this duality is pretty much the saving grace of the whole Assassin/Templar secret war. I should note that this is mostly touched upon around the events of Ezio's life, as opposed to dealt with directly (at least so far, given that I've only killed the peon's of Borgia's conspiracy). Most notably, there's a conversation in the modern day where Desmond and one of the new characters are talking about fighting the good fight, and this other dude interjects with 'uh, guys, we're assassins'. The implication is of course that the Templars and Assassins are pretty similar, in that they kill for their creed, it's just that the Templars have way more money. Even Desmond's justification, that Assassins only kill when necessary, seems to deliberately harken back to the Crusdae Templars and their justification for their actions.

Also, while I'm pretty convinced that The Truth is going to be silly, some of it is actually quite interesting. At least, it's interesting in the sense that it implies that the Templars do want to forward humanity as a whole, given that they were apparently behind the moon landings. This is an element which is present in the historical stuff as well (the Templars worship reason in the same way the Assassins worship free will), but it's coloured by the way that the Templars will apparently use any asshole to get their job done. In a way, I think the duality is often handled in a more subtle way than the first game, in the sense that while ostensibly fighting for the good guys, Ezio also furthers the power and influence of Il Magnifico. And then we get stuff about Hitler being a Templar; it's uneven as a result.

Well, it sounds interesting enough for me to play through. I borrowed Asscreed (from a mate, not EB ) because my girlfriend wanted to play it, and I'm pleasantly surprised how the game treats it's themes and story (even if the present-day stuff is retarded and the unskippableness is annoying).

I'm morbidly curious if at any point in their increasingly outlandish story they address that Templars are Christian and the Assassins are Muslims instead of attributing whatever they want to them. Sadly this will probably involve yet more aliens instead of confronting the idea that truth/freedom can be applied directly to the alien genesis business.

Actually, I wish they would have addressed the religious philosophy of the historical Assassins a little more- they were heretical Muslims- at least as heretical as the Qarmatians, if not more. That's why they historically fought against Muslims (specifically, Sunni Muslims) as well as the Christians- both sides hated them. Of course, if Assassin's creed were about the real Assassins, it'd probably be less action packed, since the actual Assassins had more to them than their name- they had an immensely complex theology and ideology that I know almost nothing about.

Also Altair would die in the first mission because Assassins were making religious/political assassinations. You don't kill a man and sneak away silently for those, although I suppose Altair's "jump down, kill every guard with counters perfectly without a scratch, kill man, walk to hiding spot leisurely while killing every guard with counters" method works too for the same purpose. You shout something while killing him and die, to make the point public and clear, as it's been done for millenia. That's why they were so feared by potential targets such as generals and kings and princes- you couldn't deter them from making an attempt on you even by making it impossible to escape alive.

So Realistic Assassins in Realistic Assassin's Creed would be a short game where you die in the first fight. So that's a pretty dumb idea.

But what I'm supposed to be getting at before that sidetrack is it'd be a little interesting if they had weaved a little bit more of, well, Islam into the Assassins, because as the proto-Ismaili movement in Shi'a Islam the Assassins were pretty fascinating.

The Codex makes it very clear that Altair himself is an atheist and that after he kills Al Mualim he tries to move the order itself in that direction. Various Templar conversations in the second game also show that they view religion as a tool, not as a way of life.

Duckie wrote:Also Altair would die in the first mission because Assassins were making religious/political assassinations. You don't kill a man and sneak away silently for those, although I suppose Altair's "jump down, kill every guard with counters perfectly without a scratch, kill man, walk to hiding spot leisurely while killing every guard with counters" method works too for the same purpose.

This always amused me about the original Assassin's Creed, so much that I began calling it Swashbuckler's Creed. It was a bit of a surprise after playing through Hitman.

From what my housemate tells me (who is playing the game while I wait for my fractured wrist to heal), this game allows you to be much more subtle about eliminating your targets. I suppose that's a good thing.

GuppyShark wrote:

Duckie wrote:Also Altair would die in the first mission because Assassins were making religious/political assassinations. You don't kill a man and sneak away silently for those, although I suppose Altair's "jump down, kill every guard with counters perfectly without a scratch, kill man, walk to hiding spot leisurely while killing every guard with counters" method works too for the same purpose.

This always amused me about the original Assassin's Creed, so much that I began calling it Swashbuckler's Creed. It was a bit of a surprise after playing through Hitman.

From what my housemate tells me (who is playing the game while I wait for my fractured wrist to heal), this game allows you to be much more subtle about eliminating your targets. I suppose that's a good thing.

The poison especially allows you to do this. You just walk up, give them a poke, then observe from a distance as they go insane and start swinging wildly before apparently having a heart attack.

Ford Prefect wrote: Also Thomas Edison was a Templar.

Does that mean Tesla was an Assassin?

Stark: If you don't like the idea of ridiculous accents, I hear there's an option for the dialogue to be completely in Italian with English subtitles.

Turning on the subtitles is essential in this game. There's a LOT of italian sprinkled in and if you don't have the subtitles on you probably won't understand half of what everyone's saying.. not to mention miss out on a lot of insults and colorful language.

DP you got me all wrong. The overdone and anachronstic accents were great in AC, and you can even come up with subjective Desmond reasons why it makes sense... Ish. The whole idea of cockneys doing a bible study in crusade 3.0 is gold.

Subjective Desmond Reasons about the accents is why the first game was pretty hilarious in a lowkey way, just like how unrealistic the whole 'past video game' was- it implies Desmond's subconscious thinks of himself as a gruff badass american who kills the fuck out of everyone when he's actually just a taxicab driver or whatever the heck he is, and that he has never met an arab and thinks they actually talk like that.

It's one of the things I think really worked, and people complained about because they didn't 'get' it. It's low-key and not as obvious as the strangeness around the death-lectures (since they obviously didn't happen and are in 'Animus space' and yet Altair's attitudes change in response to them so they are required for the story to make sense) but are nice touches anyway.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Stark: If you don't like the idea of ridiculous accents, I hear there's an option for the dialogue to be completely in Italian with English subtitles.

I'll have to check that. If it's true that's one perfect Christmas present for my Italian-speaking sister.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Does that mean Tesla was an Assassin?

Not quite, but they did enlist him to blow up Tunguska.

I hear there's an option for the dialogue to be completely in Italian with English subtitles.

There's an option to play it in French, too. And Spanish? I can't remember. In any case, I have to admit I got a little laugh out of the 'reason' why there's any Italian at all. Despite her claims to the contrary, Abstergo does translation software way better than she does.

So, I just beat the game, and I figured I'd give a fair warning now. If you've been ignoring the Codex pages, don't. Get them all as soon as you can because you will need them to finish the game. Thankfully they're not all that hard to get since they're clearly marked on your map. I was collecting them along the way anyway because they were so easy to find, but I know there's a few of you that might ignore them on principle.

General Zod wrote:So, I just beat the game, and I figured I'd give a fair warning now. If you've been ignoring the Codex pages, don't. Get them all as soon as you can because you will need them to finish the game. Thankfully they're not all that hard to get since they're clearly marked on your map. I was collecting them along the way anyway because they were so easy to find, but I know there's a few of you that might ignore them on principle.

Also, with that ending we're definitely into Indigo Prophecy levels of insanity.

While it was whacky, I was actually surprised, because it was actually handled quite well. I mean, given what you find under the Vatican and in The Truth, I sort of expected it to come off as more ridiculous. Maybe I was just coming down off the high of having beaten the Pope in a boxing match, though.

The first Assassin's Creed setting was kinda overrated and not used to its full advantage.

Sorry to necro, but I just finished this game and I have to say, first thanks to Stark for buying it for me and second, I am very impressed.

Shouldn't be much of a spoiler now, but Spoiler is how you end a game.

I take back all my 'hur huring' at the whole genetic memory thing as well. And even though it still seems silly, the way they went with the story makes it work.

Also, now I wish that I had played AC1 through, but someone didn't do their job and tell me I would like it.

Every game that doesn't have this type of character mobility is a failure.

I am curious though as to how they are going to continue the story now.
It has been said that the developers want you to be places that no other videogames have placed you. I don't know if that rules out a modern day world or not, but I would like, just for the pure gameplay of it, for them to explore more times in history for a few more installments and not jump straight to the, I am assuming, finale.

I do hope they really go crazy with the earlier human civilization thing, as I love the sci fi aspect of it, regardless of how much further the series goes.

Anyway, this goes to the top of my list for games I don't want to wait for anymore behind Gears and Madden. Sorry Mass Effect, you got bumped.

Keep an eye out for Assassin's Creed Brotherhood then. It's supposed to be out in time for the holidays and it's basically AC 2.5. But this time you're playing as Ezio in Rome. The game is supposed to include multiplayer features (somehow) as well.

One of the main additions that helped I felt was the fact you could swim.....mind you considering you spend a large part of the game in Venice I should bloody well think so.

I wonder if there's a reason that the magical aliens that can see the future so well they know the name of the douchebag who would be accessing the memories of some other doucehbag from hundreds of years ago didn't just peek a few years forward and notice that the sun was going to fucking kill them.

IIRC that wasn't actually a pre-recorded thing.

It has to be, or why would Ezio ask who Desmond was?

Havok wrote:It has to be, or why would Ezio ask who Desmond was?

Remember how if Ezio ever dies in the Animus, you "desync". The Animus doesn't play back genetic memories in full, its more like a collection of highlights that can only be navigated through by playing the part. It's like a highlight reel with the most obtuse UI imaginable.

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Havok wrote:It has to be, or why would Ezio ask who Desmond was?

Remember how if Ezio ever dies in the Animus, you "desync". The Animus doesn't play back genetic memories in full, its more like a collection of highlights that can only be navigated through by playing the part. It's like a highlight reel with the most obtuse UI imaginable.

Dude, desynching means that you fall outside of what is allowable by the memory because Ezio didn't experience it. What transpires in the game represents exactly how Ezio did it because that is the memory you are going by.

There is no dialouge or action that Ezio didn't experience in the game if you chose to do it. And vice versa if you chose not to do it. i.e. if you do all the races, it is because Ezio did them all. If you only do one it is because Ezio only did one. Get it?

That aside, Ezio specifically asks 'who is Desmond?' That is in the memory. That happened.