Bounty wrote:Long story short -
[Snip spoilers]
That's the bare facts, there's a lot of characterisation inbetween. If they don't change Nero around too much for the movie script he should be a pretty good villain.
Hopefully, the reboot will also revise the Prime Directive so Starfleet (and Federation Marine Corps?) service members will STOP USING IT AS AN EXCUSE TO DO NOTHING TO STOP SOMETHING FROM KILLING LARGE NUMBERS OF SENTIENT BEINGS. Hopefully, the alt-universe Jean-Luc Picard will NOT say something this damn heartless.
TNG Season 5 Episode 09 wrote:"What if one of those lives I save down there as a child who grows up to be the next Adolf Hitler or Khan Singh? Every first year philosophy student has been asked that question since the earliest wormholes were discovered..."
What does that have to do with anything at all? How does random bitching about something not related to the thread, in annoying jumpy letters no less, contribute anything except tired "lolz TNG sucked" whining?
Not to mention that Sidewinder is actually quoting Picard out of context - Rasmussen is in fact the person (implicitly) trying to pull that argument, and Picard is the one who wants to save the people on the planet below, which he eventually does.
Really though, that was a bad example to pick. His actions in "Pen Pals" and "Homeward" were much more damning of both him and the Prime Directive.
Bounty wrote:What does that have to do with anything at all? How does random bitching about something not related to the thread, in annoying jumpy letters no less, contribute anything except tired "lolz TNG sucked" whining?
I thought the "Do nothing" attitude the Prime Directive embodied applied to this:
Bounty wrote:(Sidewinder's note: I'm using "size=1" script to avoid spoiling the plot) The Senate however is not interested, partly because their own scientists say Spock is being alarmist, partly because the only thing that can neutralize Hobus is an theoretical weapon called "red matter" which requires some very rare materials to construct; and only the Vulcans know how to successfully build it. Nero offers Spock his services to mine the materials themselves and smuggle them to Vulcan.
Meanwhile the Romulans realise Spock was right. They consider attacking Vulcan to take the red matter technology; pending a Senate vote the planetary evacuation procedures are started.
While mining Nero and Spock meet up with the Enterprise, which has been authorised to discretely escort Spock and Nero to Vulcan and then into Romulan territory to deliver the weapon. The Vulcan High Council however refuses to give the Romulans access to the red matter refinery technology, saying it can too easily be weaponized. Nero is furious and leaves Vulcan, telling Spock he will hold all Vulcans responsible if anything happens to Romulus, his wife, or his child. Spock convinces him to leave the red matter materials on Vulcan while he tries to convince the High Council to reconsider. The Federation sends a fleet to Romulus to assist in the evacuation, but by then Hobus has already exploded.
In retrospect, I erred in linking the Prime Directive's "No interference at all costs" rule and the Vulcan High Council's "No helping the Romulans with technology that can be weaponized and even used against us."
DaveJB wrote:Really though, that was a bad example to pick. His actions in "Pen Pals" and "Homeward" were much more damning of both him and the Prime Directive.
My bad; I saw "Homeward" (it REALLY puts Starfleet in a bad light), but not "Pen Pals" or "A Matter of Time". I stumbled upon the latter while doing research on Memory Alpha for a fanfic, and was REALLY pissed anyone used "What if we end up saving a future Hitler?" to justify doing NOTHING in their power to save a life.
Well, if you want the full story behind that scene... Spoiler
Picard asks Rasmussen what happened when he tried to use the magic deflector trick on the dust-afflicted planet below. Rasmussen, trying to hide the fact that he's actually from the 22nd century and not the 26th as he has claimed, tries to pull the "I might be altering history" argument. His attempt to do so is so transparent however that Picard mockingly quotes the argument before he can say it himself. Therefore, the quote is actually Picard mocking that position rather than arguing it himself.
(I don't know why you're so worried about spoiling a 17 year old TNG episode, but that's the more convenient way to list spoilers)
As you've said though, "Homeward" is a better example, as was his refusal to get involved in the Klingon civil war in "Redemption" - at least before he evidently asked himself what the fuck he was doing at some point between the first and second parts, and tried to get Starfleet to intervene in Part II.
DaveJB wrote:(I don't know why you're so worried about spoiling a 17 year old TNG episode, but that's the more convenient way to list spoilers)
(Shrugs.) As stated, I erred in thinking there was a connection between the "What if we end up saving a future Hitler?" and the Vulcans' "What if the Romulans use the red matter as a weapon- even agains US- after they use it to save their own homeworld?" As for the convenient way to list spoilers, give me some time to figure it out.
Comic Three is out, and provides some good explinations as to the two ships we see in the trailers. Spoiler
Nero's ship uses Romulan modified Borg-tech, and that squid-ship we saw is the Jellyfish, a custom ship built by LaForge, tweaked by the Vulcans, and Piloted by Spock in a mission to take out Hobb's Star with a "Homemade Black Hole"
Oh an General Warf. Seems that he did better than his Grandfather
Jon wrote:^So long as it stays out of the film we're good.
It'd better. Issue #3 was way too rushed and implausible. I know they don't have many pages and that they're on a tight schedule, but the first two at least tried to make everything come together at a pace where there was still time for character development. This issue though - it's fanwank almost all the way through, and the sad part is that with more time it'd have been a great story. Spoiler
Nero getting a super-duper living ship upgrade, no questions asked? Spock piloting the Jellyfish? Worf all of a sudden back with the Klingon Navy? It's rushed, it's implausible, and it better lead up to something good in the next issue.
Only really going by what I've read on Memory Beta, but... Spoiler
Why are they trying to collapse the supernova after Romulus (and presumably Remus) has been destroyed? Isn't that kind of bolting the barn door after the horse has bolted?
DaveJB wrote:Only really going by what I've read on Memory Beta, but... Spoiler
Why are they trying to collapse the supernova after Romulus (and presumably Remus) has been destroyed? Isn't that kind of bolting the barn door after the horse has bolted?
Spoiler
They're trying to collapse the star because it's still a threat to the Beta Quadrant. Turns out it didn't go nova as much as burp out FTL solar flares of some sort and the next one can fry Vulcan.
... I know. It's a stupid plot contrivance and it actually cheapens the last issue.
Jon wrote:It doesnt bode well for the franchise if the writers of the movie had a lot of input in this plot, indeed.
According to the interview Trekmovie posted, the comic writers did their own thing but had a straight line to Orci. I just hope he only vetted it insofar as it doesn't clash with the movie's plot...
Phantasee wrote:I just read the first two issues last week, and now you're telling me I have to go and find the third issue?
I liked the little references to the movie, though. Like the Bad Robot in Spock's quarters.
You don't have to. It has taken a nosedive into bad fanfic territory. I just hope, hope, that they rushed through this issue to have more space for the finale.
Nero knows Romulus is going to blow up and flies off to stop it.. fair enough.
And he doesn't bring his wife and child with him.. why?]
Looks like someone has finally beaten Sisko in the angry jackass who blames others for leaving his own wife in danger's grasp category.
Eh, Romulan pride.
And yeah, it's starting to look like bad fanfiction, but we'll see; it's Abrams' own fault for not fully mapping out Nero's backstory in the first place.
Nero getting his upgrades from a failsafe base isn't a bad plot in and of itself. Neither is the Federation using a specialized ship for the Hobus mission. The problem is that, like SW and ST have been doing for the past ten years, it feels like the entire universe consists of the main characters. If this issue had been slowed down a bit and expanded, perhaps showing the rest of the Romulan response or the impact the Romulus disaster has on the rest of the universe, it could have been an excellent lead-up to the movie. Instead it's rushed and glosses over anything that would make it an interesting story. The contrast with the first two chapters is really grating.
If Abrams hadn't mapped out the backstory I'm perfectly willing to throw out the whole comic as random conjecture.
Nero getting his upgrades from a failsafe base isn't a bad plot in and of itself. Neither is the Federation using a specialized ship for the Hobus mission. The problem is that, like SW and ST have been doing for the past ten years, it feels like the entire universe consists of the main characters. If this issue had been slowed down a bit and expanded, perhaps showing the rest of the Romulan response or the impact the Romulus disaster has on the rest of the universe, it could have been an excellent lead-up to the movie. Instead it's rushed and glosses over anything that would make it an interesting story. The contrast with the first two chapters is really grating.
If Abrams hadn't mapped out the backstory I'm perfectly willing to throw out the whole comic as random conjecture.
Spoiler
I wouldn't be surprised if this is an attempt to wrap up the stories of the TNG crew so the focus can be shifted to a different era. Expect Riker, Troi and Crusher to show up soon.
Also, how did Worf go from Federation Ambassador to General? *grumble*
I'm sort of enjoying the series so far. Nothing great, but none too bad. I like the character of Nero, and how they made Romulus a little more interesting.
