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Samuel wrote:That sounds pretty easy.

Excelling at your job sounds pretty easy? I didn't know about that, I don't see many people excelling at their jobs, maybe because excellence is relative and say only 2 top workers out of 1000 in a production facility would be taken into the CPSU. How many excellent designers do you know, I bet not many, in any case not more than 10% of the overall pool? But the Soviet education produced millions of engineers, workers, doctors, etc - and not all of them were in the CPSU. Actually, if you look at the top engineers and designers of the USSR, they were mostly in the CPSU. Usual folk? Not so easy to get there.

And especially not easy after the 1970s' corruption basically led to already incumbent CPSU members to fill all the new recruit quotas with their nephews, sons, etc. This particular malpractice wasn't fully rooted out even by the time the USSR was collapsing, although Andropov tried to crack down on the "blat".

HamsterViking wrote:Now the more I learn about the USSR, the more it seems to me that it holds the same position America did during the cold war

It doesn't really take the same position. The USSR was the "underdog" so to say. Lacking in military and economic power compared to the First World, but trying to rapidly cut down the distance.

HamsterViking wrote:How about the people in communist nations? How did they view socialism? Capitalism? The conflict between the two? What were considered to be the obligations as a citizen? How seriously were these obligations taken by most people? Finally, how do Russians and Eastern Europeans see the old war looking back?

Read here and in this thread. There's enough info to gather the answers I would believe.

Other threads that might be useful
CPSU leaders
Go inside the USSR

Wow, thanks for the links. I had found one of these threads on my own already, but not the others. There's a lot of great information hidden away in this forum.

One thing i was wondering about was resteraunts in the USSR. I knew they existed, but were they all state owned joints run to specific uniform guidelines, did people rent out a place designated for resteraunts and have a Chinese joint or a Polish eatery as they saw fit, could people own Resteraunts or what?

Zor

Zor wrote:One thing i was wondering about was resteraunts in the USSR. I knew they existed, but were they all state owned joints run to specific uniform guidelines, did people rent out a place designated for resteraunts and have a Chinese joint or a Polish eatery as they saw fit, could people own Resteraunts or what?

Zor

In Poland it was both. Private citizens could rent spots for bars and restaurants, but with many, many restrictions and regulations (mostly on prices). There were also government owned "milk bars" (basically el cheapo eating place) and of course most hotels had their own restaurants (hotels were run by the government).

Restaurants were nationalized in the USSR, the hired director of a restaurant usually passed the whole way from "restaurant worker" (either cook or some other occupation) to "director" during his career. Restaurants were usually attached to hotels and/or factories, parks and other organizations, as PeZook mentioned.

Uniform guidelines in the USSR were very strict: black/white lower/upper classic costume, butterfly tie, black shoes etc (those varied from year to year somewhat, but not much).

Ethnic cuisine restaurants existed in various diaspora-designated places in the USSR (say, Asian cuisine in Central Asian republics) or of course in Moscow or Leningrad. They were specifically opened as such by the government. Often they were attached to the consulates of the corresponding nation in the USSR.

I have to ask... did you guys have ice cream? It gets so cold I can't imagine that anyone would want it, but there are warm times...

Also, how varied was the food? I'm spoiled in that I live in the Bay Area and I have about 10 different restaurant types within walking distance. Was most of the food typical Russian food or did they have lots of different kinds of stuff?

Samuel wrote:I have to ask... did you guys have ice cream? It gets so cold I can't imagine that anyone would want it, but there are warm times...

No, and we also had polar bears wandering the streets

Samuel wrote:Also, how varied was the food? I'm spoiled in that I live in the Bay Area and I have about 10 different restaurant types within walking distance. Was most of the food typical Russian food or did they have lots of different kinds of stuff?

Not very, from what I remember. Not to the extent we see today, with a dozen restaurants in a single shopping mall, at least.

No, food was definetely not that varied, and there weren't as many fast foods as today. Most restaurants or dineries were classic European + Russian cuisine. Central Asian cuisine usually was somewhere in the city, but not necessarily within walking distance, although the shashlyki were ubiqutous just as they are now.

Samuel wrote:I have to ask... did you guys have ice cream?

Ice cream advertisment, USSR

Okay that was a neat ad. I forgot ice cream is a seasonal treat- it only matters how warm the summers are.

What exactly is Russian food?

and there weren't as many fast foods as today.

Isn't fast food an American invention based on pervasive car ownership? It isn't odd that it wouldn't be prevelant in Europe- I'm just wondering why so little variety in food. Was it lack of demand, state planning going for simplicity, a desire to make things uniform or the people incharge of the system really like Russian food?

shashlyki

Google failed me. What is that?

Samuel wrote:What exactly is Russian food?

Basic European meals + pelmeni + blini.

Samuel wrote:Was it lack of demand, state planning going for simplicity

State planning for simplicity, cultural norms.

Samuel wrote:What is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shashlik
For a better idea of how it came to be, run the Russian page through an autotranslator.

Are French, German, or Chinese foods popular in the USSR? How about sushi and other Japanese fare? Can I find multiple restaurants or bistros offering such fare if I open a Soviet phonebook?

I'm curious because in a Dale Brown novel, a Russian serviceman at an isolated airbase was described as being ostracized because he liked Chinese food- he even hand-carved a set of chopsticks- his posting considered non-judicial punishment. Considering Dale Brown makes Tom Clancy look like Barrack Obama, this is likely an exaggeration- one of those "The communists are that evil and stoopid!" bits of propaganda peppering American technothrillers- but how exaggerated was it?

Well, there would be no reason to ban german food, after all, the GDR was part of the eastern block.

Sidewinder wrote: I'm curious because in a Dale Brown novel, a Russian serviceman at an isolated airbase was described as being ostracized because he liked Chinese food- he even hand-carved a set of chopsticks- his posting considered non-judicial punishment. Considering Dale Brown makes Tom Clancy look like Barrack Obama, this is likely an exaggeration- one of those "The communists are that evil and stoopid!" bits of propaganda peppering American technothrillers- but how exaggerated was it?

This...is completely ridiculous. A soldier who liked Chinese food would be no more ostracized in the USSR than in any other country. He'd probably become the butt-end of jokes because of his hand crafted chopsticks, but ostracized? Assigned punitive postings?

Jesus christ. Was Brown on drugs when he wrote that?

Dale Brown is an idiot. Yeah, Tom Clancy looks like Dostoyevsky compared to that.

So if I lived in the Soviet Union, I could open a sushi bar, but price controls would practically guarantee the business would be unprofitable? (In the US, foods from non-European countries are like clothing from top brands, and have comparable popularity and availability. You can find a sushi bar anywhere, but expect to pay more because preparing sushi is often more labor intensive than cooking a burger, and sushi chefs will command salaries to match their expertise.)

Sidewinder wrote:So if I lived in the Soviet Union, I could open a sushi bar, but price controls would practically guarantee the business would be unprofitable? (In the US, foods from non-European countries are like clothing from top brands, and have comparable popularity and availability. You can find a sushi bar anywhere, but expect to pay more because preparing sushi is often more labor intensive than cooking a burger, and sushi chefs will command salaries to match their expertise.)

It depends on the republic. You could in Poland (though in all honesty, you'd probably need to know the right people ) - and it's more than price controls. You'd have to fight the availability of any specialist cooking utensils, which would probably need to be imported, it would be hard to get produce,, the right furniture to build the mood, etc.

The selection of all goods was generally smaller, not just food. Also, good luck finding a Sushi chef

Sanepid (sanitation inspection agency) could probably also cause you problems, as I'm not sure "raw fish" was even allowed to be served in restaurants, prepared or not.

"Business would be unprofitable"? What are you talking about Sidewinder? In the USSR, profits wouldn't stand in the way of business. Actually, the profits would be purely academic, since they would be reinvested by the factory management. Being unprofitable wouldn't lead to closure. There is no market, remember.

Sidewinder mentioning 'profitability' in the context of conformist communist culinary cuisines also made me go "huh?" and made me think up of this awesome alliteration.

It's funny that the best evidence of the Soviet Union stifling individuality and creativity would be found in the absence of sushi bars and other innovative eating establishments.

Stas, it would be awesome if you could refute this by pointing out all sorts of awesome and zany cultural things in the Soviet Union, like discos and stuff. I still remember that time you posted pictures of Soviet schoolgirls getting it on in public fountains, getting wet and wild... oh yeah.

[BTW: Since hamburgers are pretty easy to mass-produce, and Soviet Russia is all about mass production, did the Russians have a "hamburgerski" analogue to American fast foods? I am hungry and this discussion into Soviet food is fascinating. What kind of takeout do the industrious proletariat workers bring with them to the work place when they are so busy that they need to eat on the job?]

Ah, the "work meal" you ask?

That's pretty easy:
1) for married workers, the wife makes a meal the preceding evening; it's split in two and the worker takes half of it next day to work.
2) for single people, there are dineries ubiqutous in every factory and such; these dineries usually have a lunch in the form of soup/borsch (1st meal) and cutlet and potato puree (2nd meal)
3) hard-working people in non-normative, long shifts often buy whatever food they can, and the fastest type of Russian food is large loaf of bread + large loaf of milk. It became popular during the Leningrad blockade and such, known as the "Buchenwald meal" - sure, damn sinister name but that type of food is immensely popular as a quick way to sate hunger
4) sausages + potato puree is also quite a fast food

I'll get you a photo of a worker's diner, I just lost the link.

Is that the normal stuff you guys eat all the time? Is the disparity that startling when compared to the sheer varieties of stuff available in, uh, capitalistic pig-dog nations? Maybe that's why Gorbachev was so incredulous when he saw a supermarket for the first time, and why you guys call us pig-dogs all the time.

See, generally the Russian culture has favoured "cooking at home". At the market, we get raw products (raw meat, vegetables, et cetera) then perpare different meals at home. We don't sell ready-to-eat products - even now, it's more of an alien thing.

Also - workers' fast food during a break, as you asked:

Stas Bush wrote:"Business would be unprofitable"? What are you talking about Sidewinder? In the USSR, profits wouldn't stand in the way of business. Actually, the profits would be purely academic, since they would be reinvested by the factory management. Being unprofitable wouldn't lead to closure. There is no market, remember.

Oops. So the existence of a sushi bar depended on the management's whims, i.e., "Yes" if senior bureaucrats like sushi or the idea of proving how international was communist ideology's appeal, "No" if they're disgusted by the idea of eating raw fish outside of a city besieged or other survival situations?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Sidewinder mentioning 'profitability' in the context of conformist communist culinary cuisines also made me go "huh?" and made me think up of this awesome alliteration.

It's funny that the best evidence of the Soviet Union stifling individuality and creativity would be found in the absence of sushi bars and other innovative eating establishments.

Actually, Mel Gibson provided the best alliteration in Air America: the Friday Night theory, where the best evidence of how great a nation is, is how hard its people can party on Friday night. (His character cites this as evidence the US is a great nation, but admits it's possible the Soviet Union isn't as bad as American propaganda paints it, as Russians are said to party hard on the weekends.)

Stas Bush wrote:Also - workers' fast food during a break, as you asked:
<snip image>

What are the pyramid-like things? Folded napkins? Cartons of cheese?

Sidewinder wrote:What are the pyramid-like things? Folded napkins? Cartons of cheese?

Milk cartons.

Sidewinder wrote:Actually, Mel Gibson provided the best alliteration in Air America

By alliteration I meant: the commencement of two or more words of a word group with the same letter, as in apt alliteration's artful aid.

[SDNW veterans will know that I'm crazy for those.]

Stas, those foods don't look so bad. Now that we've got cuisine covered, how did Soviet Russians spend their weekends? In particular, the Soviet youth! Did they go to roller skate discos or clubs and boogie and listen to an Elviski or something? Like, some pompadoured popular musician with communist facial hair who the kids love and can't get enough of?

What do you guys do for fun?

Soviet Shroomania!

Is that the normal stuff you guys eat all the time? Is the disparity that startling when compared to the sheer varieties of stuff available in, uh, capitalistic pig-dog nations? Maybe that's why Gorbachev was so incredulous when he saw a supermarket for the first time, and why you guys call us pig-dogs all the time.

From what I remember of my youth, there was plenty of fast-food snacks available. Corn crisps, carbonated soda pop, zapiekanki, pea soup, bigos and of course ice cream.

Now I was born in 1983, but I do remember going places with my parents, and there were plenty of "small gastronomy" places everywhere, which served fast food. Of course, now there's like a hundred times more, so I guess the disparity is pretty startling

Stas, those foods don't look so bad. Now that we've got cuisine covered, how did Soviet Russians spend their weekends? In particular, the Soviet youth! Did they go to roller skate discos or clubs and boogie and listen to an Elviski or something? Like, some pompadoured popular musician with communist facial hair who the kids love and can't get enough of?

For Poland...well, pretty much like anywhere else. They'd go to discos, ice skating, chase after girls at the beach, hang out with friends, visit the zoo, play soccer, go to a cinema or, sometimes, theater. One thing which was very popular during communist times were various camps and "colonies", which were heavily subsidized by the government. If you worked at a government-run enterprise (90% of them ) you had cheap or outright free vacations for the entire family. The local boy scouts (harcerze) also organized free vacations for the kids.

Sailing was also very popular (still is, though it's no longer free), thanks - again - to government-sponsored sailing clubs. If you volunteered to do maintenance on the boats at such a club in your spare time, you could sail for free.

A lot of people think that one of the biggest tragedies of transition was the loss of all these freely available activities, which did a great job of keeping the youth out of trouble during the summer. I tend to agree: sending a kid to a summer camp has become pretty damn expensive, so not a lot of parents do that. Makes for a lot of 15-year-olds wandering the city, bored out of their minds.