StarDestroyer.Net BBS

In a common-sense Trek universe, they would have tried flamethrowers and slug-throwers and every other damned kind of weapon one could think of. The first thing a normal person would think of when his weapon is ineffective is either "more" or "different", as in "more firepower" or "different kind of weapon." Not "same weapon and same firepower but fuck with the settings."

I remember reading a DS9 novel when I was a kid. About some aliens boarding DS9, and all their weapons are disabled by some technobabble field. Replicators are still working, and Major Kira asks the computer what's the most high-tech projectile weapon she could think of. It ends up being some Klingon gun.

I don't remember the name of the book, or even if it involved Borg. But I do remember going, what the fuck, finally.

By contrast, in one Doctor Who episode when the TARDIS, an Earth scoutship, and a Dalek scoutship became stranded on a planet where a vast machine soaked up power from any artificial source and neutralised lasers and blasters, the Daleks solved the problem by reinventing the machine gun, swapping out their useless energy guns, and carried on. A nice, practical, low-tech solution and one which no modern Star Trek writer would've ever thought of.

Yeah, and it took them one incident to work out their blasters didn't work, and less than an hour to cook up some machineguns. The Federation hasn't got to that point after almost a decade.

I'd love to know why Starfleet never holds an investigation into all these incidents where their fancy weapons are disabled by some "damping field" or "interference" or some other shit, and instructs starships to carry some projectile weapons instead of resorting to fucking melee combat with bladed weapons every time this happens.

The problem isn't so much the writers as the in-universe inconsistency. At least without ST:FC, you could claim that they never used slugthrowers or anything else because of Fistfull of Datas. But bring in the Picard screaming tommy gun, and then you have a what the fuck moment. Add in the Nazis in Voyager, Archer's 10 MJ one-shot kill, and the TNG+ aversion to less advanced technology, and it ends up Picard and his legends are braindead.

A rational response to an invulnerable enemy would be like Stargate versus Kull warriors. You try everything, more firepower, every kind of weapon you can think of, and it doesn't work. Then you collect a plot token and your weapons suddenly work. It's still a little trite, and you really have to have something like a Kull warrior and not a zombie.

brianeyci wrote:I remember reading a DS9 novel when I was a kid. About some aliens boarding DS9, and all their weapons are disabled by some technobabble field. Replicators are still working, and Major Kira asks the computer what's the most high-tech projectile weapon she could think of. It ends up being some Klingon gun.

I don't remember the name of the book, or even if it involved Borg. But I do remember going, what the fuck, finally.

I believe I've read that book, it wasn't Borg but some mythical Cardassian things called "Bekkir". It was amusing, because the aliens in question had never developed energy weapons, but rather perfected projectile weaponry.

brianeyci wrote:The problem isn't so much the writers as the in-universe inconsistency.

Since the writers are responsible for in-universe consistency, I don't see how that takes the blame off the writers.

According to O'Brien, the TR-116 was designed as a prototype to be issued when weapons dampening fields rendered energy weapons useless. Of course he then says STarfleet dropped the idea in favor of 'Regenerative Phasers' which clearly didn't solve the problem of course.

Hell that thing would have been more then acceptable against the Borg given the hole it punched in the bulkhead behind Ezri

Chris OFarrell wrote:According to O'Brien, the TR-116 was designed as a prototype to be issued when weapons dampening fields rendered energy weapons useless. Of course he then says STarfleet dropped the idea in favor of 'Regenerative Phasers' which clearly didn't solve the problem of course.

An incredibly stupid idea since it is even easier to make a transporter-jamming field than a "weapons dampening field". If they want foolproof weapons, they should use something that relies on organic chemical reactions, like modern firearms. Any "field" that disrupts organic chemical reactions would also terminate all organic life, thus making ground combat a moot point.

Hell that thing would have been more then acceptable against the Borg given the hole it punched in the bulkhead behind Ezri

The TR-116 is a shitty low-powered gun anyway. Notice the lack of a "crack" when the bullet is fired or when it rematerializes. That means no sonic boom. That means subsonic rounds. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the TR-116 is obviously an assassination weapon. O'Brien's line about it being an environmentally specialized infantry weapon doesn't add up.

Darth Wong wrote:

Chris OFarrell wrote:According to O'Brien, the TR-116 was designed as a prototype to be issued when weapons dampening fields rendered energy weapons useless. Of course he then says STarfleet dropped the idea in favor of 'Regenerative Phasers' which clearly didn't solve the problem of course.

An incredibly stupid idea since it is even easier to make a transporter-jamming field than a "weapons dampening field". If they want foolproof weapons, they should use something that relies on organic chemical reactions, like modern firearms. Any "field" that disrupts organic chemical reactions would also terminate all organic life, thus making ground combat a moot point.

Even though it is a low powered gun, it should still put you at an advantage if the other guys phasers are jammed forcing them into melee. Even if the transporter part is also jammed. But current firearms would be better.

bilateralrope wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:

Chris OFarrell wrote:According to O'Brien, the TR-116 was designed as a prototype to be issued when weapons dampening fields rendered energy weapons useless. Of course he then says STarfleet dropped the idea in favor of 'Regenerative Phasers' which clearly didn't solve the problem of course.

An incredibly stupid idea since it is even easier to make a transporter-jamming field than a "weapons dampening field". If they want foolproof weapons, they should use something that relies on organic chemical reactions, like modern firearms. Any "field" that disrupts organic chemical reactions would also terminate all organic life, thus making ground combat a moot point.

Even though it is a low powered gun, it should still put you at an advantage if the other guys phasers are jammed forcing them into melee. Even if the transporter part is also jammed. But current firearms would be better.

But of course, if the other side was intelligent, they'd already have firearms. And you'd be stuck with shitty low-powered firearms with a lousy ammo capacity against their presumably normal ones.

What's really amusing is that an eight-year-old playing Starcraft demonstrates more tactical intelligence than both the average Starfleet officer and the borg.

"Sir, Protoss Zealots are tearing through our marines like butter! What do we do?"

Eight year old: "Well, firebats seem to kick their ass left and right, send in a couple squadrons of those instead. While you're at it, place a couple seige tanks at these chokepoints, since that seems to be what they're aiming for."

Starfleet officer: "We'll have to modulate their gauss needlers to fire along a Neins'bourghian trajectory, which should theoretically make a 21% increase in firing-rate efficiency, then we'll take all our unique units, the ones that make us lose the scenario if any of them die, and send them alone in one clump...why is it telling me I've failed the scenario?"

Likewise...

Eight year old: "Damn, three zergling rushes have failed to penetrate the terran base, seige tanks and bunkers keep turning them into jam. I know, I'll send in a pack of guardians, followed up by a hydra-swarm and a few ultralisks to absorb the tank-fire."

Borg intelligence: "Send in another zergling swarm. If that doesn't work, send in another one."

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Starfleet officer: "We'll have to modulate their gauss needlers to fire along a Neins'bourghian trajectory, which should theoretically make a 21% increase in firing-rate efficiency, then we'll take all our unique units, the ones that make us lose the scenario if any of them die, and send them alone in one clump...why is it telling me I've failed the scenario?"

Whereas it should be a lot more like:

Starfleet officer: "We'll have to modulate their gauss needlers to fire along a Neins'bourghian trajectory, which should theoretically make a 21% incr— BANG

You even have to dismantle the guns to perform some of their stupid modifications. What if you left your phaser-adjusting light pen at home?