"Borderland" Talkback Thread * Spoilers *

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2004-10-31 05:55pm

There is also the VOY episode "Future´s End" in which they travel visit 1996. Earth in this timeline is not very different from ours, no Eugenic war and no uber-humans.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-10-31 06:45pm

Admiral_K wrote: Well obviously this isn't the same timeline. The presence of the Borg and the fact that the eugenics wars didn't take place in the 90s pretty much gaurantees its not the same timeline regardless of what is said outside of the cannon.

Ent, Voy, DS9 and even TOS itself all dispute the 1996 date so the alternate reality idea doesn't fly.

As for the presence of the Borg, that doesn't conflict with the established timeline.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-10-31 07:08pm

Luzifer's right hand wrote:There is also the VOY episode "Future´s End" in which they travel visit 1996. Earth in this timeline is not very different from ours, no Eugenic war and no uber-humans.

Well, there was the Botany Bay model on the scientist's desk. It's worth pointing out that (a.) Gene Roddenberry truly believed that genetic manipulation would reach that level by 1996, (b.) Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels explain why there was no public awareness of the Eugenics Wars in Future's End.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-10-31 07:13pm

Well obviously this isn't the same timeline. The presence of the Borg and the fact that the eugenics wars didn't take place in the 90s pretty much gaurantees its not the same timeline regardless of what is said outside of the cannon.

That's too easy an answer. And wrong too. The people who are directly involved with and/or in charge of deciding what is and what isn't canon have stated that Enterprise is canon and that it is not a parrellel universe/alternate timeline. Nobody likes this, I know, but we have to deal with it. They made it so that this is our problem, not theirs.

And besides, past Star Trek shows have blatently contradicted eachother (and themselves!) on numerous occasions, and we still assume they are all part of the same timeline and universe. The problem with Enterprise is that there just seem to be a few (*ahem*) more of those contradictions.

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2004-10-31 07:14pm

JME2 wrote:
Luzifer's right hand wrote:There is also the VOY episode "Future´s End" in which they travel visit 1996. Earth in this timeline is not very different from ours, no Eugenic war and no uber-humans.
Well, there was the Botany Bay model on the scientist's desk. It's worth pointing out that (a.) Gene Roddenberry truly believed that genetic manipulation would reach that level by 1996, (b.) Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels explain why there was no public awareness of the Eugenics Wars in Future's End.

Really? I must have missed that.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-10-31 11:42pm

Superman wrote:I'm glad they stayed true to form with the Orions. They didn't add any forehead ridges or pointy ears, just green skin like in TOS. Good for them.

It should also be noted that the wrestler "Big Show" was credited as the guy who was handling T'Pol. And there was an unhelmeted Orion with six horns, IIRC.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-11-01 01:18am

Weren't they weird metal things on his shaven head?

Weird stuff.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-11-01 11:50am

It's been a long time since I saw the episode of TAS that showed male Orions. Does anyone remember if they looked anything like the guys from this episode?

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2004-11-01 01:49pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:It's been a long time since I saw the episode of TAS that showed male Orions. Does anyone remember if they looked anything like the guys from this episode?

The orions are just green people. The only male orion they ever showed was pretending to be an Andorian.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2004-11-01 05:09pm

neoolong wrote:Weren't they weird metal things on his shaven head?

Weird stuff.

I prefer to think of them as horns, but I am most likely wrong since we haven't seen too many primates or humanoids with horns in real life and in Trek. Second, I doubt natural selection would put horns in that area of the skull.

You really have to wonder what a guy needs with six cones in his head.
Like you said, weird stuff.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-11-01 06:58pm

Aeolus wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:It's been a long time since I saw the episode of TAS that showed male Orions. Does anyone remember if they looked anything like the guys from this episode?
The orions are just green people. The only male orion they ever showed was pretending to be an Andorian.

I know that the Orions in this episode were just green people, but there was also an episode of the Animated Series that featured male orions prominently, but I can't remember what they looked like there.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-11-01 10:28pm

No one has commented about the Klingon ship looking a great deal like a smaller somewhat retro version of a Bird of Prey.

I haven't seen any of the show in a long time so has that class of Klingon ship appeared before?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-11-01 10:31pm

Drooling Iguana wrote: I know that the Orions in this episode were just green people, but there was also an episode of the Animated Series that featured male orions prominently, but I can't remember what they looked like there.

The Star Trek Encyclopedia doesn't show any pictures except for the Orion Animal Women and doesn't say anything specifically about Orions in general.

It mentions the Orion Syndicate, Orion Smugglers and that's about it.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-11-01 11:30pm

Tsyroc wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote: I know that the Orions in this episode were just green people, but there was also an episode of the Animated Series that featured male orions prominently, but I can't remember what they looked like there.
The Star Trek Encyclopedia doesn't show any pictures except for the Orion Animal Women and doesn't say anything specifically about Orions in general.

It mentions the Orion Syndicate, Orion Smugglers and that's about it.

That's probably because the animated series isn't considered canon. Still, male Orions did show up there.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-11-01 11:50pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:
Tsyroc wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote: I know that the Orions in this episode were just green people, but there was also an episode of the Animated Series that featured male orions prominently, but I can't remember what they looked like there.
The Star Trek Encyclopedia doesn't show any pictures except for the Orion Animal Women and doesn't say anything specifically about Orions in general.

It mentions the Orion Syndicate, Orion Smugglers and that's about it.
That's probably because the animated series isn't considered canon. Still, male Orions did show up there.

If I recall only one episode is TAS is considered canon, Yesteryear.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2004-11-02 12:29am

If I recall only one episode is TAS is considered canon, Yesteryear.

Says who?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-11-02 12:34am

Superman wrote:
If I recall only one episode is TAS is considered canon, Yesteryear.
Says who?

I could be wrong. But I believe Yesteryear is considered canon (a.) because of how it deals with Spock's personal history and (b). since longtime Trek writer D.C. Fontanna was the episode writer (though that of course brings up the issue of why the Motion Picture novelization isn't canon, even though Gene Roddenberry wrote it).

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-11-02 10:21am

Actually, I've heard that while the details of Spock's childhood that were revealed in Yesteryear are canon, the actual plot of the episode (involving a return to the Guardian of Forever) is not.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-11-02 11:35am

Does that mean that child-Spock meeting adult-Spock is canon, or isn't canon? It's part of his childhood...

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-11-02 12:31pm

Pretty sure that's non-canon.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-11-02 12:31pm

Bellator wrote:Does that mean that child-Spock meeting adult-Spock is canon, or isn't canon? It's part of his childhood...

No, Drooling Iguana is right. Just the details of his childhood, not the meeting of two Spocks.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-11-03 08:12am

I couldn't help but think of Dune seeing the 'Supermen' doing their flipping stunts dodging projectiles and going "shaa!" everytime they hit somebody. Couldn't have been more than a coincidence... ; )

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2004-11-03 08:50am

No, Drooling Iguana is right. Just the details of his childhood, not the meeting of two Spocks.

And what about his pet? Did it live in canonverse?

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2004-11-03 10:58am

Bellator wrote:
No, Drooling Iguana is right. Just the details of his childhood, not the meeting of two Spocks.
And what about his pet? Did it live in canonverse?

Actually his mother Amanda mentioned the sehlat in "The Journey to Babel".

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-11-05 04:10am

In the animated series the Orions were blue. The FASA game got around this by saying that the blue Orions are racist and dominant and enslaved the green ones.