What's the Klingon Intelligence organization?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-07-24 01:42am

I've noticed that Klingon Intelligence follow the Klingons themselves.

TOS: Klingons were civilized people who wanted to rule the universe. Their intelligence was quite good- see Darvin.

TNG: Klingons were semi-civilized, but in later episodes started just killing anything they saw. Klingon intelligence was hardly shown.

DS9: Klingons are a big gang looking for a fight. Their intelligence have no intelligence. In one DS9 episode we see three Klingon intelligence operatives spying on Romulans. In spying you should be discreet, right? They came on board posing as freighter captains, no big deal. Then they went around getting drunk, starting bar fights, stalking the Romulans they were spying on, and sabotaging Federation systems using devices that are EASILY identifyable as Klingon in origin. A Stormtrooper has more tact than that.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2004-07-24 05:44pm

Well, it probabely would have raised more suspicions, if they hadn´t behaved the way ordinary Klingons (of that time) do.

And the Klingon Intelligence-Service has to be very good, since nobody even knows its name.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-07-25 01:23pm

TNG: Klingons were semi-civilized, but in later episodes started just killing anything they saw. Klingon intelligence was hardly shown.

Didn't TNG Heart of Glory suggest that the bloodthirsty stupidity among the Klingons was some sort of religious fervor?

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2004-07-25 08:47pm

I suppose it's possible that the Klingons have an intelligence agency but just don't acknowledge its existance because they consider spying dishonorable. Hell, I don't think the US had an intelligence agency that offically existed until the CIA.

And we know that the Klingons aren't above lying. The whole High Council lied to protect the House of Duras, and Gowron was reluctant to let the E-D get near Quo'nos in Reunification prt. 1 because he was already rewriting history to make himself look good.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-07-28 07:19pm

Trogdor wrote:Hell, I don't think the US had an intelligence agency that offically existed until the CIA.

OSS in World War II. Sort of. When they weren't being a rich boys' club

.

The only answer I have is non-canon, but the old (old old) Star Trek RPG had an Intelligence Agents' Sourcebook, which stated that Klingon agents were under the Klingon Diplomatic Corps, and they oversaw all intelligence activities. This was TOS era.

PicardShark · Post by **PicardShark** » 2004-07-28 10:22pm

Trogdor wrote:I suppose it's possible that the Klingons have an intelligence agency but just don't acknowledge its existance because they consider spying dishonorable.

So, just how dishonorable would Lursa and B'Tor using Geordi's visor to see the shield frequency in Star Trek Generations be in their eyes? Or would that just be seen as a necessary battle tactic?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-07-28 10:59pm

PicardShark wrote:
Trogdor wrote:I suppose it's possible that the Klingons have an intelligence agency but just don't acknowledge its existance because they consider spying dishonorable.
So, just how dishonorable would Lursa and B'Tor using Geordi's visor to see the shield frequency in Star Trek Generations be in their eyes? Or would that just be seen as a necessary battle tactic?

You think they were *honorable* Klingons? They were trying to steal a supernova weapon that would kill millions of civilians, not warriors, and had betrayed the empire earlier.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-07-28 11:01pm

FTeik wrote:Well, it probabely would have raised more suspicions, if they hadn´t behaved the way ordinary Klingons (of that time) do.

And the Klingon Intelligence-Service has to be very good, since nobody even knows its name.

Not true. To quote "Trials and Tribble-ations" (which I just watched), "Klingon Intelligence turned their back on him," (referring to Darvin, who was a TOS Klingon agent).

So Klingon Intelligence is named...Klingon Intelligence.
Wow, that's creative.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-07-28 11:45pm

Praxis wrote:
PicardShark wrote:
Trogdor wrote:I suppose it's possible that the Klingons have an intelligence agency but just don't acknowledge its existance because they consider spying dishonorable.
So, just how dishonorable would Lursa and B'Tor using Geordi's visor to see the shield frequency in Star Trek Generations be in their eyes? Or would that just be seen as a necessary battle tactic?
You think they were *honorable* Klingons? They were trying to steal a supernova weapon that would kill millions of civilians, not warriors, and had betrayed the empire earlier.

I agree, that was a bad example.

Klingons are pretty straight forward I guess they didn't see the point in giving their intel organization a special name like the Tal'shiar, or the Obsidian Order, etc.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2004-07-29 02:40am

Praxis wrote:
FTeik wrote:Well, it probabely would have raised more suspicions, if they hadn´t behaved the way ordinary Klingons (of that time) do.

And the Klingon Intelligence-Service has to be very good, since nobody even knows its name.
Not true. To quote "Trials and Tribble-ations" (which I just watched), "Klingon Intelligence turned their back on him," (referring to Darvin, who was a TOS Klingon agent).

So Klingon Intelligence is named...Klingon Intelligence.
Wow, that's creative.

How else can they call it, if they don´t know the true name?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-07-29 12:22pm

No, it was Worf that said that. Being a Klingon, he would know. And they captured Darvin, who was a "Klingon Intelligence Operative"

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-07-29 03:09pm

Praxis wrote:No, it was Worf that said that. Being a Klingon, he would know. And they captured Darvin, who was a "Klingon Intelligence Operative"

Why would he? He's not a citizen of the Klingon empire. If the federation doesn;t konw about it Worf doesn't.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-07-29 05:43pm

You actually think Klingon Intelligence is called that because they are so good, no one knows their name?

Odo also states repeatedly that he has "friends in Klingon Intelligence" and in the episode where the Klingons are spying on Romulans, he told the Klingons that if they cooperated he "wouldn't contact Klingon Intelligence".

Considering how PATHETIC the Klingon agents were (their version of undercover was harrassing the Romulans they were supposed to watch, and planting devices that were obviously Klingon in origin all over the station), I highly doubt Klingon Intelligence is that good.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-08-01 05:10pm

The sign of a great intellegence agensy is taht no one knows it exists. Since we know for a fact that they conducted intellegence operations in the past, and it was pointed out that the secrecy of going to war implies an extremely good security organization, it seems to me the best idea is that the Klingons actually have the best intellegence agency of them all.

No if they choose not to use the intellegence provided, that's another thing

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-08-01 05:27pm

Praxis wrote:You actually think Klingon Intelligence is called that because they are so good, no one knows their name?
.

I never said that. I was objecting to you saying:

No, it was Worf that said that. Being a Klingon, he would know

Why would Worf know anything the Federation didn't know about the Klingons?

Say I'm German and I move to England at age 4, would I konw what German Intelligence was called? (assuming it was public knowledge)

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2004-08-01 05:33pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Praxis wrote:You actually think Klingon Intelligence is called that because they are so good, no one knows their name?
.
I never said that. I was objecting to you saying:
No, it was Worf that said that. Being a Klingon, he would know
Why would Worf know anything the Federation didn't know about the Klingons?

Say I'm German and I move to England at age 4, would I konw what German Intelligence was called? (assuming it was public knowledge)

BND and MAD.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-08-01 05:34pm

FTeik wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:
Praxis wrote:You actually think Klingon Intelligence is called that because they are so good, no one knows their name?
.
I never said that. I was objecting to you saying:
No, it was Worf that said that. Being a Klingon, he would know
Why would Worf know anything the Federation didn't know about the Klingons?

Say I'm German and I move to England at age 4, would I konw what German Intelligence was called? (assuming it was public knowledge)
BND and MAD.

??? and ???
Whats thats supposed to mean?

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2004-08-01 06:15pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
FTeik wrote:
BND and MAD.
??? and ???
Whats thats supposed to mean?

Bundesnachrichtendienst and Militärischer Abschirmdienst, respectively. The BND is the civilian intelligence agency, while the MAD is the military intelligence agency. And, of course, there's the less well known BfV, the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution).

Of course, someone raised in England, even if born in Germany, would be relatively unlikely to know it unless interested in intelligence agencies.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-08-02 12:46am

Obviously, it's not canon, but the third Lost Era novel, The Art of the Impossible shows the existence of a Klingon Intelligence org, known throughout the Empire as Imperial Intelligence. It's, unlike its Romulan or Cardassian counterparts, not a secret police and its agents are exempt from traditional Klingon rituals, such as an honor duel. The primary agent utilized in the book was Lorgh, the friend of the House of Mogh who took Worf's brother Kurn under his wing after the Khitomer attack of '46.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2004-08-02 02:23am

Crazedwraith wrote:
Praxis wrote:You actually think Klingon Intelligence is called that because they are so good, no one knows their name?
.
I never said that. I was objecting to you saying:
No, it was Worf that said that. Being a Klingon, he would know
Why would Worf know anything the Federation didn't know about the Klingons?

Say I'm German and I move to England at age 4, would I konw what German Intelligence was called? (assuming it was public knowledge)

Let's see...I'm american, and I know what the CIA is...

Almost all Romulans know the name "Tal Shiar", and almost all Cardassians know the name "Obsidian Order"...besides, theres the comment from Odo, who had Klingon insiders, saying "Your friends in Klingon Intelligence".

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-08-02 04:24am

Yeah, then you have the Federation which is no better.

Starfleet Intelligence and Starfleet Security, both run by Admirals. The Vulcans have their own agency which was revealed in the "Gambit" two-parter (one of few good things about season 7).

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-08-04 03:43am

The Klingon Intelligence Agency (KIA).

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-08-04 04:06am

Praxis wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:
Praxis wrote:You actually think Klingon Intelligence is called that because they are so good, no one knows their name?
.
I never said that. I was objecting to you saying:
No, it was Worf that said that. Being a Klingon, he would know
Why would Worf know anything the Federation didn't know about the Klingons?

Say I'm German and I move to England at age 4, would I konw what German Intelligence was called? (assuming it was public knowledge)
Let's see...I'm american, and I know what the CIA is...
Almost all Romulans know the name "Tal Shiar", and almost all Cardassians know the name "Obsidian Order"...besides, theres the comment from Odo, who had Klingon insiders, saying "Your friends in Klingon Intelligence".

The point is (well this aint a good example), but you know about the CIA beacause your an american citizen. The process doesn't hold up for Worf because he's not a Klingon Citizen, being raised in the Federation, he only knows what the federation knows about the Klingon Empire. Thus if th Feddies don't know what their called, Worf doesn't know what its called. His name for it is not more relaible than anyother Feddie Lt.Cmm. Who has a special intrest in the klingon Empire.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2004-08-04 07:34am

Crazedwraith wrote:The point is (well this aint a good example), but you know about the CIA beacause your an american citizen. The process doesn't hold up for Worf because he's not a Klingon Citizen, being raised in the Federation, he only knows what the federation knows about the Klingon Empire. Thus if th Feddies don't know what their called, Worf doesn't know what its called. His name for it is not more relaible than anyother Feddie Lt.Cmm. Who has a special intrest in the klingon Empire.

The problem is this is Star Trek, where racial attachments override anything else. Hell, in DS9 Worf is brought in as a "special consultant on Klingons" or something and generally gives the impression that he knows far more about the Klingons than the nation he was raised in.
If I hadn't seen his human adoptive parents with my own eyes I'd think it was some sort of lie.

Besides, wouldn't Kurn just have told him at some point? Kurn would know.

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2004-08-04 07:50am

Cao Cao wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:The point is (well this aint a good example), but you know about the CIA beacause your an american citizen. The process doesn't hold up for Worf because he's not a Klingon Citizen, being raised in the Federation, he only knows what the federation knows about the Klingon Empire. Thus if th Feddies don't know what their called, Worf doesn't know what its called. His name for it is not more relaible than anyother Feddie Lt.Cmm. Who has a special intrest in the klingon Empire.
The problem is this is Star Trek, where racial attachments override anything else. Hell, in DS9 Worf is brought in as a "special consultant on Klingons" or something and generally gives the impression that he knows far more about the Klingons than the nation he was raised in.
If I hadn't seen his human adoptive parents with my own eyes I'd think it was some sort of lie.

Besides, wouldn't Kurn just have told him at some point? Kurn would know.

There's also the fact that during the run of TNG Worf did spend time serving as a Klingon officer in the forces directly supporting Gowron's bid for leadership (and personally saving Gowron's incompetent bacon at least once), so Worf does, from that point on, have an inside view of the military side of Klingon life. That should include intelligence briefings and knowledge of the name of the agency or agencies providing the briefings.