Alternate Voyager Question

[Gandalf]

Is it just me or was Lt. Commander Cavit really old for his rank. He looked to be 40-50's, which would make sense for a medical officer, but not someone moving through the chain of command.

He was the inspiration for Harry Kim.

[Son of the Suns]

Is it just me or was Lt. Commander Cavit really old for his rank. He looked to be 40-50's, which would make sense for a medical officer, but not someone moving through the chain of command.

Maybe he was like Riker, y'know? Always staying on one command, passing up promotion for whatever reason. Then again, maybe he liked grey hair, and fashioned himself accordingly?

Riker was alot younger than Cavit when he was first assigned to Enterprise. It would make sense that someone would have a lower rank if he was the XO on the flagship, but not on a little dinky ship like Voyager.

[Son of the Suns]

Is it just me or was Lt. Commander Cavit really old for his rank. He looked to be 40-50's, which would make sense for a medical officer, but not someone moving through the chain of command.

He was the inspiration for Harry Kim.

No kiding, the guy should have been a full lieutenant by the time Voyager got home, and with all the casualities from the Dominion war I wouldn't be suprised if he was made a Lt. Commander.

[Jason von Evil]

I think they would've told Cavit to either accept a promotion to captain or retire, if he'd been a XO for that long.

[Aaron]

I think they would've told Cavit to either accept a promotion to captain or retire, if he'd been a XO for that long.

Well if Starfleet works like a real military, then he gets one shot at XO and then if he's not promoted to captain then he gets rotated to a shore position or to a postion on someones staff. You basically get one shot at each position for a period of two years and then it's on to the next job.

Of course Starfleet evidently isn't modeled after a real military, in it's personal assignments anyways. Cause there's no way Picard would be a ship captain for 12 fucking years.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

EAS lists the deathcount in "Caretaker" as "unspecified, at least five."

So as an extremely conservative estimate, assuming that the Betazoid ensign and Janeway's XO were the only other casualties, would be that Voyager had a medical crew of three, which is reasonable given the size of her sickbay.

*ahem*

I count 2 medical staff, which not surprisingly, corresponds with the number of medical staff we see onscreen - namely the arsehole doctor and the Vulcan nurse. The other 3 casualties were Lt.Commdr. Cavit, Lt. Stadi, and the Chief Engineer whom we never see. Add them up and you get 5.

There may have been more medical staff, but we don't actually see them.

Thanks. It's been literally years since I watched it, so I wouldn't have known.

[Invader ZIm]

Ok I have done my best to burn ST:VOY from my memory. But I seem to recall that Janeway was the 1st Officer for the opening of the pilot. Shortly into the story the Captian is killed and she takes over.

Evidentally your Voyager purge was too successful - Janeway was the captain, and her XO was killed. How you got them mixed up is anyone's guess.

Do you want to rephrase it as an Alternate Reality?

Thank God for small favors!

Ok suppose Janeway had been killed in the pilot could the orignal XO, who would have assumed command, have been as bad as she was?

[Stofsk]

Thank God for small favors!

Ok suppose Janeway had been killed in the pilot could the orignal XO, who would have assumed command, have been as bad as she was?

Probably worse, to a certain degree.

Cavit didn't like Paris, for whatever Paris was cashiered out of SF for. If Stadi dies who's going to fly the ship? (One of the reason I hated the VOY pilot - everyone that dies does so conveniently - Stadi dies, but that's cool 'cause we've got Tom Paris; Cavit dies but we've got Chakotay - who goes from being a tough and cool rebel captain to an almost neutered SF XO and so on...)

Of course, virtually *nothing* is known about Cavit: we see him badmouth Tom to Harry, we see him on the bridge make a technobabble suggestion, then he dies; I already hate him. There is little for us to go on in answering your question, though. If he could think of a time-delay fuse for those tri-cobalt torpedos then he'll be much better than Janeway. If not, it's 7 years with Captain Cavit.

[Sarevok]

Why even bother destroying the caretaker array ? It is a gateway to a distant part of the Galaxy ready to be exploited by the Federation. The intelligent decision would be not to blow up the array but keep it intact and inform starfleet about it.

[Stofsk]

Why even bother destroying the caretaker array ? It is a gateway to a distant part of the Galaxy ready to be exploited by the Federation. The intelligent decision would be not to blow up the array but keep it intact and inform starfleet about it.

Except the array's method of transportation involves killing crewmembers of the ship being transported. Plus when you get to the DQ you'll be attacked by fiersome warriors in desperate need of a hairdresser (who've mastered space travel but are wowed by a tank of water).

[Sarevok]

The Kazon are too weak to threaten the Federation. Their largest battleships have difficulty against a small starship like Voyger.

[Stofsk]

Right, I was being flippant. Sorry.

To be honest your proposal of claiming the array for the Federation, then getting reinforcements from home is a good one. I've toyed with the idea of doing a fanfic on it.

Like I said in one of the above posts: VOY's pilot was a little too convenient - crew die and get replaced seamlessly; the ship is stranded when they need not be; Chakotay's raider is destroyed when Voyager had weaponry that could have destroyed the Kazon battleship etc.

Obviously a Federation taskforce will conquer that region quite easily. Perhaps the transportation problem - ie crew being killed - was due to the Caretaker's Old Age, which won't be a problem if you have Tuvok running the program.

[Tsyroc]

I thought a lot of the crew died from the testing the caretaker was doing on them to determine whether he was genetically compatable with them?


FYI: I haven't seen the pilot since it orginally aired.

[RedImperator]

I think it would have been a better creative decision to have made Janeway Voyager's XO at the start. There's far more avenues for conflict if Janeway has to prove her legitimacy as the CO at the same time they're trying to get home (plus, how docile are the Maquis if they know the Starfleet officer running things wasn't supposed to be the captain, and maybe some of the other Starfleet crewers don't want her in command).

[Major Diarrhia]

I think it would have been a better creative decision to have made Janeway Voyager's XO at the start. There's far more avenues for conflict if Janeway has to prove her legitimacy as the CO at the same time they're trying to get home (plus, how docile are the Maquis if they know the Starfleet officer running things wasn't supposed to be the captain, and maybe some of the other Starfleet crewers don't want her in command).

That would have been cool but it would have been handled just like all the other tention creating plot points in Voyager. Ex.- Janeway would have emidiatly been a great commanding officer, dismissing everyones doubts. The situation would be braught up maybe one more time later on and once again quickly forgotten.

[Stofsk]

I thought a lot of the crew died from the testing the caretaker was doing on them to determine whether he was genetically compatable with them?

I think Kim and Torres suffered that, but the Doctor cured them. And only those two were affected because the Caretaker, out of guilt, sends those few who die from his tests to the Ocampa, who can care for them better (the whole idea is so stupid - why do the tests cause deaths? Why send them to the Ocampa, who can't heal them? Why not leave them with their people, who'll be waking up soon and gonna be demanding answers?)

As for the crew who die - that was caused by getting picked up and thrown all the way over to the DQ. Stadi dies because her console explodes. Cavit dies because he was in the same region (what killed her killed him). The Doctor and his Nurse die because a plasma conduit in Sickbay exploded, killing them both (don't ask why, it's B&B engineering). The Chief Engineer died, presumably from the same thing the others died from (exploding consoles thanks to plasma conduits). A lot of people were injured in similar ways. Any other deaths were of course incidental, given we're not told about them nor are their deaths at all important.

FYI: I haven't seen the pilot since it orginally aired.

Then you're a more fortunate man than I am, as I have the bloody thing on tape. (we need a vomit emoticon)

[Trogdor]

Having a really old Lt. Cmdr. isn't that incredible for Trek. I remember watching TNG at least once and seeing an extra who must've been in his 50's or 60's walking through the halls who seemed to be an ensign. Also, when Q sent Picard through that whole "what if" thing when he nearly died, and Picard changed his history, he became an ensign.

And while taking the array would've been wise, the Feds never would've done it, regardless of how the captain of the Voyager handled the situation. Out of Fed hands, it just would've been a threat to them; Starfleet command probably preferred it blown up, though Janeway could've certainly used timed charges. Also, even if it didn't require any conquest or even effort, are the Feds really going to want a gateway to the Delta Quadrant, home of the Borg?

[Thag]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how is Starfleet going to secure the array for conquest uses? All they have is Voyager, so how are they going to prevent the Kazon from taking the array once they go back to get more ships? Given the hazards of the process, there's no way in hell a shuttlecraft will make it back, and I don't think a boarding party would have enough time to figure out the array's defensive systems.

[Stofsk]

Also, when Q sent Picard through that whole "what if" thing when he nearly died, and Picard changed his history, he became an ensign.

I thought it was Lieutenant? Whatever, it doesn't matter - all that matters is that Picard stayed as a lieutenant (or ensign, but I like to give him more credit) for decades. Somewhat inconceivable but whatever (you'd think Picard would have quit much earlier if his SF career wasn't going places - imagine an AR Picard who became a adventuring archaeologist... the possibilities, the possibilities...)

And while taking the array would've been wise, the Feds never would've done it, regardless of how the captain of the Voyager handled the situation.

Care to explain why?

Out of Fed hands, it just would've been a threat to them; Starfleet command probably preferred it blown up, though Janeway could've certainly used timed charges.

Why yes, the array is powerful and as such needs to be controlled. Destruction is one method of controlling the problem, but taking it would be beneficial. We don't know the array's powers, it might have given SF a great advantage in dealing with other races (such as the Borg).

Also, even if it didn't require any conquest or even effort, are the Feds really going to want a gateway to the Delta Quadrant, home of the Borg?

Yes. The Borg are some distance away from the Federation, meaning intelligence-gathering missions would be time-prohibitive. Having a presence in the Delta Quadrant allows the Federation a closer base from which to observe and report on the Borg. Not only that but the array could be used to transport ships out of the AQ and into the DQ. Think of it as outflanking the Borg.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how is Starfleet going to secure the array for conquest uses? All they have is Voyager, so how are they going to prevent the Kazon from taking the array once they go back to get more ships? Given the hazards of the process, there's no way in hell a shuttlecraft will make it back, and I don't think a boarding party would have enough time to figure out the array's defensive systems.

That big Kason ship would have been destroyed by Voyager if Janeway had used those tri-cobalt torpedos on it. All the other ships would either have fled or would have fought and died. Also the ship-transportation, while damaging to Voyager the first time around, would be controlled by Janeway et al this time around. That means the possibility of damage would be pre-empted and better prepared for.

A further possibility is that Voyager was damaged due to careless control on the part of the Caretaker, who was represented as a senile old man. With someone like Tuvok at the helm, and given this was the cause before, the ride back may actually be a smooth one. Of course, this is mere speculation.

Remember that in my scenario Chakotay's raider survives. This means there would be one ship at the array, and if Chakotay's raider could survive the trip to the array it can survive the trip back. Put Janeway on the raider, send it back while keeping Voyager around with Tuvok at the helm; Janeway goes back, tells SF about the array, a couple patroling ships go with her, and you've already got a beachhead. Given that there were a few starfleet ships patrolling that area of space in search of the Maquis, reinforcements should arrive at the array fairly quickly.

The window of vulnerability is small. If the Kazon can summon a large fleet of ships they might break through - but this is unlikely given how the Kazon-Ogla sect was a tiny one, compared to the others. By the time they could summon a fleet large enough to take the array and destroy the SF defenders, the latter will have already brought over some reinforcements. And seeings as Voyager is nothing more than a scout and still kicked the Kazon's arses, and something like an Excelsior-class is a heavy cruiser and is designed for battle (and are the most likely patrollers Janeway can pick up), I suggest the Kazon can do nothing to SF once they're there with reinforcements.

[Thag]

Okay, I see where you're coming from. The only remaining problem I see is that the Kazon sect didn't commit all of their ships in that battle (IIRC, there was one battleship and three of the frigates). We know they were after the array for some time and there was ample opportunity for the ships present to get word out to the rest of their forces. I also don't think that starfleet or even individual captains would be eager to commit to action across the galaxy on a moment's notice. Even if it's only a few more ships, there is still a window of vulnerability the that Kazon can exploit with an all-out assault. If starfleet gets there first, game over, but if not, then things could get real messy.