Heavy ground weapon?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-02 02:12am

Major Diarrhia wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:They have an RPG. We saw it in Insurrection. They also have pulse phasers that can be mounted on a vehicle. But they have no tactical requirement for heavy antivehicle weapons because there are never any heavy vehicles in Star Trek ground combat. Just men on foot, charging like idiots.
Actualy there is the Breen CRM-114 "an extremely powerful portable hand cannon designed to destroy moving targets and surface emplacements, marketed by Quark's cousin Gaila [Business as Usual (DS9)]". So at least the Breen have a need and I belive it was once remarked that the Cardasians have tanks, can't for the life me remember where that one comes from though.

We saw Star Trek's idea of a military ground vehicle in Nemesis. I'm not impressed.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-03-02 02:13am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:But... they have the Mighty Dune Buggy o'Doom™ with the rear mounted pulse-phaser.
That reminds me of the Warthogs from Halo only with a pulse phaser. And how the heck do you get a trademark symbol in there?

Except those aren't designed to only be effective running away.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-03-02 03:09am

Stormbringer wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:But... they have the Mighty Dune Buggy o'Doom™ with the rear mounted pulse-phaser.
That reminds me of the Warthogs from Halo only with a pulse phaser. And how the heck do you get a trademark symbol in there?
Except those aren't designed to only be effective running away.

True, that.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-03-02 03:26am

Major Diarrhia wrote:Actualy there is the Breen CRM-114

Ha, sounds like someone watched Dr. Strangelove.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-03-02 04:08am

Darth Wong wrote: We saw Star Trek's idea of a military ground vehicle in Nemesis. I'm not impressed.

Why do you say its a military ground vehicle? Nothing of the sort was ever said onscreen. It looks to me to be typical of Starfleets non military but with a defensive ability mindset that is typical of most Starship designs. It looks like something to give an away team legs on exploritory missions with a single strictly defensive weapon rather then a military vehicle.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-03-02 08:11am

wautd wrote:IIRC, some time ago, there was a StarTrek 3D RTS game that introduced hoover tanks.

That was Star Trek : New Worlds. The game was set in the TOS era.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2004-03-02 10:44am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Matt Huang wrote: geez, just bring back the photon mortar that was used (once?) in TOS. You could also use the isomagnetic disintegrator, but that seems to have more of a concussive effect than anything else (although we have no idea about settings or what-not that are so common on other Fed weapons).
Or better yet, just use copies of current day mortars, the Stokes 3 inch mortar from which just about all-modern infantry mortars are derived was first built out of scrap metal in WW1. If Federation forces had any brains at all they'd easily improvise all sorts of weapons they ought to have at places like AR-588.

the photon mortar was powerful enough that a round about the size of a modern day mortar created a blast and a mushroom cloud that could be felt from over a klick away. Much to Gene Roddenberry's dissapointment.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-03-02 11:04am

Matt Huang wrote:the photon mortar was powerful enough that a round about the size of a modern day mortar created a blast and a mushroom cloud that could be felt from over a klick away. Much to Gene Roddenberry's dissapointment.

Actually, the photon grenade mortar created a very bright flash, but the blast and heat at Kirk's position was negligible and there definitely wasn't a mushroom cloud.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-02 11:11am

Matt Huang wrote:the photon mortar was powerful enough that a round about the size of a modern day mortar created a blast and a mushroom cloud that could be felt from over a klick away. Much to Gene Roddenberry's dissapointment.

Bullshit. Lying through your teeth is an unacceptable debate tactic.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2004-03-02 12:52pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Matt Huang wrote:the photon mortar was powerful enough that a round about the size of a modern day mortar created a blast and a mushroom cloud that could be felt from over a klick away. Much to Gene Roddenberry's dissapointment.
Bullshit. Lying through your teeth is an unacceptable debate tactic.

Sorry, that was the impression I got from screenshots and captions of the episode. Although in retrospective, that's probably hearsay.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-03-02 04:21pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: We saw Star Trek's idea of a military ground vehicle in Nemesis. I'm not impressed.
Why do you say its a military ground vehicle? Nothing of the sort was ever said onscreen. It looks to me to be typical of Starfleets non military but with a defensive ability mindset that is typical of most Starship designs. It looks like something to give an away team legs on exploritory missions with a single strictly defensive weapon rather then a military vehicle.

Starfleet = Federation's military (or equivalent force, despite delusions of certain characters)
therefore
Starfleet vehicles = military vehicles

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2004-03-02 05:50pm

Uraniun235 wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: We saw Star Trek's idea of a military ground vehicle in Nemesis. I'm not impressed.
Why do you say its a military ground vehicle? Nothing of the sort was ever said onscreen. It looks to me to be typical of Starfleets non military but with a defensive ability mindset that is typical of most Starship designs. It looks like something to give an away team legs on exploritory missions with a single strictly defensive weapon rather then a military vehicle.
Starfleet = Federation's military (or equivalent force, despite delusions of certain characters)
therefore
Starfleet vehicles = military vehicles

Starfleet's not just a military. The Argo seems to lean more towards the exploratory end of starfleet. If it was a military vehicle, it would have more coverage of it's weapons.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-03-02 05:54pm

Military doesn't necessarily mean combat. I wouldn't call your average military jeep a combat vehicle, but its still military.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-02 06:04pm

I think Chris would have a truck under use by the Navy with an M2 atop is non-military.

Really, it is a sad excuse for an Argument From Ignorance. By suggesting that it isn't a military vehicle, obviously the gate is opened for the possibility of real military vehicles which are presumably, of course, well-armed.

That's stupid of course; whether Starfleet is really a military or not doesn't change the fact that the sole example of a Star Trek combat or armed ground vehicle is the stupid Buggy.

A rather sophisticated fallacy, honestly.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-03-02 06:51pm

Actually, except for that hovering landspeeder thing on Earth in All Good Things, that may be the only ground vehicle we've ever seen. My mind's drawing a blank for other examples.

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2004-03-02 10:09pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Actually, except for that hovering landspeeder thing on Earth in All Good Things, that may be the only ground vehicle we've ever seen. My mind's drawing a blank for other examples.

The best place to check might be the starfleet command ground scene in the beginning of ST:IV. I don't have a copy handy, but IIRC there were several things that could be ground vehicles.

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