ENT Twilight

[JME2]

that's how they made their first official contact. although Voyager stated that the earliest contact humanity had with the Borg was the explorer Craft "Raven" that had seven of nine on it when it was assimilated into the collective.

Seven and the Hansen issue was the first sign that B and B don't give a f*** about continuity. I plan in my Trek/Wars story to connect the dots as I see them and present my own little theory.

[TheDarkling]

I always thought the Borg in Next Gen showed up because Q brought their attention to humanity when he flung the E-D to the Delta Quadrant....

They had attacked Federation outposts prior to that and the Raven had crossed into their space.

[Metrion Cascade]

ENT "Regeneration" shows its an alternate timeline spawn by the changes wreaked by the E-E and the borg.

No it does not, in fact the episode directly explains why the Borg show up during TNG thus linking the two shows in the same timeline (although it is possible that will change, as things stand there is very little evidence to support the dual timeline theory).

When you go back in time, you create a new timeline simply by being there. In fact, there's so much time travel in Trek that as far as I'm concerned the concept of "canon" doesn't apply at all anymore. It's more a matter of what is consistent within a given timeline.

[Metrion Cascade]

The stupidity of Enterprise as a whole is far less than specific examples in the other shows (and Voyager as a whole), as for you saying so - does that mean people can now pick and choose what they want as canon? Should be inteesting when some people admit novels and other dismiss specific scenes in episodes on a whim.

Three reasons.

1.) Gene Roddenberry: "It's not Star Trek until I say it's Star Trek."
2.) B&B have openly stated that they do not care about continuity.
3.) Enterprise contradicts the Trek history established in TOS and TNG. I don't know what Roddenberry's involvement in DS9 was.

Sadly, none of those reasons are valid. The current owners dictate what is canon for Star Trek, Roddenberry is dead he no longer owns Star Trek.

This only refutes the first reason. Nothing changes the fact that B&B have openly stated that they don't consider continuity that important. And nothing can change the contradictions between ENT history and TOS or TNG history. There's a difference between continuity errors and a repeating pattern of deliberate contradictions. I'll try to explain away the former. The latter is simply laziness, and I will not show B&B the respect of letting them define Trek canon (if there is such a thing) when they unapologetically contradict themselves.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Three reasons.

1.) Gene Roddenberry: "It's not Star Trek until I say it's Star Trek."
2.) B&B have openly stated that they do not care about continuity.
3.) Enterprise contradicts the Trek history established in TOS and TNG. I don't know what Roddenberry's involvement in DS9 was.

Sadly, none of those reasons are valid. The current owners dictate what is canon for Star Trek, Roddenberry is dead he no longer owns Star Trek.

This only refutes the first reason. Nothing changes the fact that B&B have openly stated that they don't consider continuity that important. And nothing can change the contradictions between ENT history and TOS or TNG history. There's a difference between continuity errors and a repeating pattern of deliberate contradictions. I'll try to explain away the former. The latter is simply laziness, and I will not show B&B the respect of letting them define Trek canon (if there is such a thing) when they unapologetically contradict themselves.

Only the first reason needed to be refuted, the other reasons are irrelevant. ENT will only be considered non-canon when they say "Enterprise is not canon"

[Metrion Cascade]

Only the first reason needed to be refuted, the other reasons are irrelevant. ENT will only be considered non-canon when they say "Enterprise is not canon"

And I give B&B latitude over what is or isn't canon because...?

You cannot rationally agree with a person who is contradicting himself. You cannot accept diametrically opposed facts as both true, which is what a single Trek canon requires. When B&B say they don't care about continuity, they are openly stating that there are multiple canons whether they want it to be interpreted that way or not. You will not find many other people on this site who consider ENT canon either. It just can't be done. If it's all one canon, then the Ferengi were first encountered on two dates and both were the first contact. If it's all one canon, then those Borg drones were on Earth 200 years before their birth. If it's all one canon, then Earth:

a.) Never developed life because of the anti-time eruption in TNG "All Good Things."
b.) Was assimilated by the Borg in 2063, despite the lack of life on the planet, because a man who never existed was about to develop warp drive.
c.) Developed faster warp drive in concert with the Vulcans, despite being all Borg and having no life.
d.) Was destroyed by the Xindi in the mid 2160s to kill humans who never evolved, because they left the planet too early using tech they never got to invent.
e.) Despite being sterilized, assimilated, and destroyed, remained the center of the Federation (which was never formed) well into the 31st century, according to Daniels (who was never born).

Meanwhile, the E-D (which was never built because humanity doesn't exist) blows up six times without blowing up.

The Klingons beat the Federation (which doesn't exist) in a war that doesn't happen because of an incident involving the E-C (which doesn't exist) that never happened.

Voyager (which doesn't exist) spends a year fighting and beating a Krenim ship that was never built. Voyager is destroyed, and merrily continues its trip back to its never-evolved, assimilated, destroyed homeworld.

That's a hell of a trick.

[Stark]

<snip>
If it's all one canon, then Earth:

a.) Never developed life because of the anti-time eruption in TNG "All Good Things."
b.) Was assimilated by the Borg in 2063, despite the lack of life on the planet, because a man who never existed was about to develop warp drive.
c.) Developed faster warp drive in concert with the Vulcans, despite being all Borg and having no life.
d.) Was destroyed by the Xindi in the mid 2160s to kill humans who never evolved, because they left the planet too early using tech they never got to invent.
e.) Despite being sterilized, assimilated, and destroyed, remained the center of the Federation (which was never formed) well into the 31st century, according to Daniels (who was never born).

Meanwhile, the E-D (which was never built because humanity doesn't exist) blows up six times without blowing up.

The Klingons beat the Federation (which doesn't exist) in a war that doesn't happen because of an incident involving the E-C (which doesn't exist) that never happened.

Voyager (which doesn't exist) spends a year fighting and beating a Krenim ship that was never built. Voyager is destroyed, and merrily continues its trip back to its never-evolved, assimilated, destroyed homeworld.

That's a hell of a trick.

Do I hear Star Trek XI?

[JME2]

We'll be lucky is there is a Star Trek XI.

[Metrion Cascade]

We'll be lucky is there is a Star Trek XI.

I'll assume you meant "unlucky."

[JME2]

We'll be lucky is there is a Star Trek XI.

I'll assume you meant "unlucky."

My words can be interpreted to mean many things.

[Uraniun235]

We'll be lucky is there is a Star Trek XI.

I'll assume you meant "unlucky."

Depends on who's involved. If it's starring Sulu commanding Excelsior, and Nick Meyer is directing with absolute authority over the project (i.e. his word over Berman/Braga's), then it could be a Good Thing.

If, on the other hand, it's more of the same crap we've been getting from the TNG movies, then it would certainly be an "unlucky" thing.

[JME2]

We'll be lucky is there is a Star Trek XI.

I'll assume you meant "unlucky."

Depends on who's involved. If it's starring Sulu commanding Excelsior, and Nick Meyer is directing with absolute authority over the project (i.e. his word over Berman/Braga's), then it could be a Good Thing.

If, on the other hand, it's more of the same crap we've been getting from the TNG movies, then it would certainly be an "unlucky" thing.

god I hope they do an Excelsior film; it could work if Pocket Books' upcoming Excelsior series sells well.

[Dark Primus]

Bragga himself said the timeline has been altered. Which means ENT universe is set in a parallel universe.

[Burak Gazan]

Bragga himself said the timeline has been altered. Which means ENT universe is set in a parallel universe.

Boy, thats for sure

http://www.trektoday.com/news/020204_01.shtml

[Uraniun235]

What the fuck? I thought Spock was supposed to be the first half-human Vulcan!

[JME2]

What the fuck? I thought Spock was supposed to be the first half-human Vulcan!

So did I. Who knows what the %#^&* Bragga and Berman are doing now...

[Metrion Cascade]

What the fuck? I thought Spock was supposed to be the first half-human Vulcan!

Maybe the first that most people heard about. But if some human had a kid with a Vulcan and they were in some backwater or nobody gave a damn, you wouldn't hear about it. Kind of like the Holodoc stating that Borg nanotubules can penetrate any armor or forcefield. It doesn't mean they can. It just means they can penetrate everything he's heard of.