Your own personal trek ship

[Metrion Cascade]

Or I would like a Romulan Warbird with everything it already, upgraded twice and with holodecks.

Thats good choice. The Warbird is a very powerful battleship with three times the firepower of a Federation Galaxy class and equivalant shielding and better armour.

This gets tossed around a bit, but nobody's demonstrated it. If anything the Warbird is a structurally inferior design to practically anything else in Trek.

[Alyeska]

The D'Deridex is slightly more powerful then the original Galaxy class and slightly less powerful then the War Galaxy. The advantage/disadvantage is the Warbird has most of its weapons concetrated in the frontal arc. This means in 1-1 combat the Warbird almost always wins because it can bring more weapons to bear. They can attack with all their weapons at once while the enemy must manuver to make use of their weapons. While waiting for larger weapons to recharge the Warbird can manuever to place other ships against the enemy then reorient and fire again. The disadvantage is that a Warbird is not a good fleet ship. It can not protect its aft section very well and can easily be flanked. A relatively cheap force of throw away destroyers or attack ships can flank a Warbird and destroy it at less expense then the Warbird itself.

The D'Deridex follows much of Romulan philosphy. Stealth and utter destruction of your enemy before they can do anything. The Warbird is designed to sneak up on a ship, decloak and fire weapons killing or disabling the enemy before they can react. It is quite succesful in this area. On the other hand the Warbirds problem in fleets hurt the Romulans to a degree in the Dominion war. While they were sufficent to ward off Dominion strikes into Romulan territory, when working in Allied fleet opperations the Romulans suffered greatly and even lost a Flagship in the Battle of Cardassia.

[Metrion Cascade]

The D'Deridex is slightly more powerful then the original Galaxy class and slightly less powerful then the War Galaxy. The advantage/disadvantage is the Warbird has most of its weapons concetrated in the frontal arc. This means in 1-1 combat the Warbird almost always wins because it can bring more weapons to bear. They can attack with all their weapons at once while the enemy must manuver to make use of their weapons. While waiting for larger weapons to recharge the Warbird can manuever to place other ships against the enemy then reorient and fire again. The disadvantage is that a Warbird is not a good fleet ship. It can not protect its aft section very well and can easily be flanked. A relatively cheap force of throw away destroyers or attack ships can flank a Warbird and destroy it at less expense then the Warbird itself.

The D'Deridex follows much of Romulan philosphy. Stealth and utter destruction of your enemy before they can do anything. The Warbird is designed to sneak up on a ship, decloak and fire weapons killing or disabling the enemy before they can react. It is quite succesful in this area. On the other hand the Warbirds problem in fleets hurt the Romulans to a degree in the Dominion war. While they were sufficent to ward off Dominion strikes into Romulan territory, when working in Allied fleet opperations the Romulans suffered greatly and even lost a Flagship in the Battle of Cardassia.

I can see how the frontal bias in weapons placement can be an asset in certain situations, but generally no ship that big should have such a bias. The Defiant, for example, had its small size and maneuverability to make up for it. It could turn faster to target another ship, and was moving around too much for most ships to get behind it. Assuming your description of the D-Deridex is correct. I'm still not seeing evidence that the power is greater or even that most of the weapons are in the front. And the configuration of the D'Deridex is a structural and ergonomic nightmare that's best explained by saying the Romulans wanted it to look bigger and more fearsome than it was.

[Alyeska]

I can see how the frontal bias in weapons placement can be an asset in certain situations, but generally no ship that big should have such a bias. The Defiant, for example, had its small size and maneuverability to make up for it. It could turn faster to target another ship, and was moving around too much for most ships to get behind it. Assuming your description of the D-Deridex is correct. I'm still not seeing evidence that the power is greater or even that most of the weapons are in the front. And the configuration of the D'Deridex is a structural and ergonomic nightmare that's best explained by saying the Romulans wanted it to look bigger and more fearsome than it was.

Take note of how quickly D'Deridex ships could take down the shields of the Enterprise-D. Most examples clearly give the Warbird a singificant advantage in frontal weapons. Then look at the statement that the D'Deridex is slightly more powerful (this was a canon statement) and put the two facts together. The total weapon output of a Galaxy class is nearly equal to the total weapon output of a D'Deridex. With the apparent ease at which a D'Deridex can get through Galaxy class shields and the apparent difficulty of the Galaxy doing the same, the conclussion is that the D'Deridex has most of its weapons in the front. We already know the Galaxy class has aproximately 50% of its weapons capable of firing foward. Effectively the D'Deridex has double the forward firepower of a Galaxy.

Combine this with Romulan philosophy of surprise attacks using cloaking devices and you can see that the D'Deridex is designed quite well for its particular mission. The Romulans don't like to give other enemies a reason to start a war, the Romulans want to start wars themselves and they will use their ships in a surprise attack to gain the intiative and force their enemy to react. This would give the Romulans a distinct advantage. The problem with this philosophy and how it extends to the Romulan ships is the Romulans failed to fully asses how the rest of the Galaxy, or local governments would view their actions. While the Romulans might be able to conquer the Klingons or the Federation in a surprise attack, how would the other governments act? What if the Cardassians or Breen take advantage and attack the Romulans in mass? All of a sudden the Romulans loose the intiative and their ships are poorly designed for fleet combat.

Actualy it seems the Romulans did understand this and that is why they were willing to support insurrection and other clandestine activities against potential enemies. Hence the support of the Duras, the plan to replace Picard, the plans to invade Vulcan, etc... They wanted to play their enemies against eachother to weaken them. The Romulans were patient and they would attack only when they had a distinct advantage.

[Metrion Cascade]

Take note of how quickly D'Deridex ships could take down the shields of the Enterprise-D. Most examples clearly give the Warbird a singificant advantage in frontal weapons. Then look at the statement that the D'Deridex is slightly more powerful (this was a canon statement) and put the two facts together. The total weapon output of a Galaxy class is nearly equal to the total weapon output of a D'Deridex. With the apparent ease at which a D'Deridex can get through Galaxy class shields and the apparent difficulty of the Galaxy doing the same, the conclussion is that the D'Deridex has most of its weapons in the front. We already know the Galaxy class has aproximately 50% of its weapons capable of firing foward. Effectively the D'Deridex has double the forward firepower of a Galaxy.

When did any of the above happen? Battles? Quotes?

[Alyeska]

Take note of how quickly D'Deridex ships could take down the shields of the Enterprise-D. Most examples clearly give the Warbird a singificant advantage in frontal weapons. Then look at the statement that the D'Deridex is slightly more powerful (this was a canon statement) and put the two facts together. The total weapon output of a Galaxy class is nearly equal to the total weapon output of a D'Deridex. With the apparent ease at which a D'Deridex can get through Galaxy class shields and the apparent difficulty of the Galaxy doing the same, the conclussion is that the D'Deridex has most of its weapons in the front. We already know the Galaxy class has aproximately 50% of its weapons capable of firing foward. Effectively the D'Deridex has double the forward firepower of a Galaxy.

When did any of the above happen? Battles? Quotes?

The statement of firepower difference came from the episode "Tin Man" (TNG). It also indicates they are slightly slower. The incidents of battle are in every single episode the Enterprise fought one. I can't list them, but I can say every time the Enterprise went up against a D'Deridex it had its shields taken out or dropped quickly while not being able to do much in return.

[Metrion Cascade]

Take note of how quickly D'Deridex ships could take down the shields of the Enterprise-D. Most examples clearly give the Warbird a singificant advantage in frontal weapons. Then look at the statement that the D'Deridex is slightly more powerful (this was a canon statement) and put the two facts together. The total weapon output of a Galaxy class is nearly equal to the total weapon output of a D'Deridex. With the apparent ease at which a D'Deridex can get through Galaxy class shields and the apparent difficulty of the Galaxy doing the same, the conclussion is that the D'Deridex has most of its weapons in the front. We already know the Galaxy class has aproximately 50% of its weapons capable of firing foward. Effectively the D'Deridex has double the forward firepower of a Galaxy.

When did any of the above happen? Battles? Quotes?

The statement of firepower difference came from the episode "Tin Man" (TNG). It also indicates they are slightly slower. The incidents of battle are in every single episode the Enterprise fought one. I can't list them, but I can say every time the Enterprise went up against a D'Deridex it had its shields taken out or dropped quickly while not being able to do much in return.

Thanks for the "Tin Man" clarification. But I don't remember a single battle between the E-D and any Romulan Warbird ever. All I remember is the episode where Admiral Jarok defected, and the Romulans sent two Warbirds to deal with the E-D. No battle, though.

[Sharp-kun]

Take note of how quickly D'Deridex ships could take down the shields of the Enterprise-D. Most examples clearly give the Warbird a singificant advantage in frontal weapons. Then look at the statement that the D'Deridex is slightly more powerful (this was a canon statement) and put the two facts together. The total weapon output of a Galaxy class is nearly equal to the total weapon output of a D'Deridex. With the apparent ease at which a D'Deridex can get through Galaxy class shields and the apparent difficulty of the Galaxy doing the same, the conclussion is that the D'Deridex has most of its weapons in the front. We already know the Galaxy class has aproximately 50% of its weapons capable of firing foward. Effectively the D'Deridex has double the forward firepower of a Galaxy.

When did any of the above happen? Battles? Quotes?

An example is "The Defector", 2 Warbirds decloak, and fire on the Enterprise.

After a few hits, Picard says something like:

This is only a tap on the shoulder, or we wouldn't be here talking about it

[Metrion Cascade]

Take note of how quickly D'Deridex ships could take down the shields of the Enterprise-D. Most examples clearly give the Warbird a singificant advantage in frontal weapons. Then look at the statement that the D'Deridex is slightly more powerful (this was a canon statement) and put the two facts together. The total weapon output of a Galaxy class is nearly equal to the total weapon output of a D'Deridex. With the apparent ease at which a D'Deridex can get through Galaxy class shields and the apparent difficulty of the Galaxy doing the same, the conclussion is that the D'Deridex has most of its weapons in the front. We already know the Galaxy class has aproximately 50% of its weapons capable of firing foward. Effectively the D'Deridex has double the forward firepower of a Galaxy.

When did any of the above happen? Battles? Quotes?

An example is "The Defector", 2 Warbirds decloak, and fire on the Enterprise.

After a few hits, Picard says something like:

This is only a tap on the shoulder, or we wouldn't be here talking about it

This is two ships, indicating that one would not be enough. Any two ships with only 70% of the E-D's power apiece can still kick its ass in concert especially if most of their weapons are up front. And no quantitative reference is made to what damage the hits caused. And just how much does Picard know about the D'deridex class anyway?

I've checked DITL's series guide with a word search for "romulan," and the above is the only reference I can find to Warbirds attacking the E-D.

[Alyeska]

The Enterprise has been fired on by Romulan ships in "Tin Man", "The Defector", and "A Matter of Time". Each instance has the Enterprise taking rather severe damage. In "Tin Man" the Enterprises shields are nearly knocked out by a single Romulan ship. In "The Defector" a mere handful of shots from the two D'Deridex ships nearly took out the shields.

[Uraniun235]

With the apparent ease at which a D'Deridex can get through Galaxy class shields and the apparent difficulty of the Galaxy doing the same

We have little idea of how much damage a Warbird can absorb. It may be that the victor of a Galaxy vs. D'deridex confrontation is largely determined by whoever gets the first shot off, since we have never seen a Galaxy fire on a Warbird.

While the Romulans might be able to conquer the Klingons or the Federation in a surprise attack, how would the other governments act?

This is rather improbable given the vast size of the Federation. They might be able to badly damage the Federation, but it's not like they'll be able to wipe out Starfleet and conquer the Federation in one blow. I also find it improbable that the Romulans would be able to adequately defend themselves from the ensuing counterattack from the remaining ally if they were to commit to either the Federation or the Klingon Empire... and I severely doubt they have the resources to take on both simultaneously.

We also do not know how many Warbirds they have. The Warbird we saw in TNG "The Neutral Zone" may have been, at the time, one of only a handful... much like the Galaxies.

[Metrion Cascade]

The Enterprise has been fired on by Romulan ships in "Tin Man", "The Defector", and "A Matter of Time". Each instance has the Enterprise taking rather severe damage. In "Tin Man" the Enterprises shields are nearly knocked out by a single Romulan ship. In "The Defector" a mere handful of shots from the two D'Deridex ships nearly took out the shields.

In "The Defector" and "A Matter of Time," no reference was made to the damage done being severe. In each episode, no consoles blew out and I don't think there was any shaking. Usually both happen long before the shields are gone. I don't recall any firefight in "Tin Man" at all.

And with the forward placement bias of Warbirds, we still don't know that they have more firepower all around or that their shields are any more powerful than a GCS'. If your ship can put 80% of its (for instance) 100 GJ firepower into forward firing weapons, that's 80 GJ and will make its opening salvo more powerful than that from a ship that has 500GJ worth of weapons with 10% of that being forward weapons. If you've got two ships, then that's 160GJ from the two 100 GJ ships, vs. 50GJ from the 500GJ ship. But the 500GJ ship has more firepower all around. And this raises the question of why the Romulans sent two ships in "The Defector" if one could comfortably defeat the Enterprise.

[Alyeska]

In "The Defector" and "A Matter of Time," no reference was made to the damage done being severe. In each episode, no consoles blew out and I don't think there was any shaking. Usually both happen long before the shields are gone. I don't recall any firefight in "Tin Man" at all.

Exploding consoles have nothing to do with this. In TNG spherical shields provide almost 100% protection from enemy fire. Console explossions came about in DS9 and VGR when hull conforming shields were used.

In "Tin Man" a Warbird decloaked and straffed the E-D seriously hammering it. While no specific shield rating was given in "The Defector" all indications were the E-D has suffered serious shield damage and that was just the tip of the iceberg on the D'Deridex's firepower. In "A Matter of Time" a D'Deridex was firing on an unshielded Enterprise and it was causing significant system damage.

Also in the episode where Troi was made to look like a Tal Shiar Major, it was expected that a D'Deridex that got off the first shot after decloaking against a shielded Galaxy class could win with ease.

And with the forward placement bias of Warbirds, we still don't know that they have more firepower all around or that their shields are any more powerful than a GCS'. If your ship can put 80% of its (for instance) 100 GJ firepower into forward firing weapons, that's 80 GJ and will make its opening salvo more powerful than that from a ship that has 500GJ worth of weapons with 10% of that being forward weapons. If you've got two ships, then that's 160GJ from the two 100 GJ ships, vs. 50GJ from the 500GJ ship. But the 500GJ ship has more firepower all around. And this raises the question of why the Romulans sent two ships in "The Defector" if one could comfortably defeat the Enterprise.

We DO know they have more firepower all around because of a canon statement. The STE says this statement comes directly from "Tin Man". The D'Deridex has slightly more firepower then a Galaxy class. Combine that with a known forward bias and this means the D'Deridex has more firepower to bring to bear. As to the survivability of a Romulan ship. Even if the shields are somewhat inferior to a Galaxy class, I do not see any evidence that their shields are so massively inferior. If they were, the Federation would not fear them quite so much. As it is any possible small shield inferiority is more then made up by the fact that the D'Deridex has a very deadly forward arc.

[Frank Hipper]

I'll take a beauteous D-7, thank you very much.

[Metrion Cascade]

In "The Defector" and "A Matter of Time," no reference was made to the damage done being severe. In each episode, no consoles blew out and I don't think there was any shaking. Usually both happen long before the shields are gone. I don't recall any firefight in "Tin Man" at all.

Exploding consoles have nothing to do with this. In TNG spherical shields provide almost 100% protection from enemy fire. Console explossions came about in DS9 and VGR when hull conforming shields were used.

In "Tin Man" a Warbird decloaked and straffed the E-D seriously hammering it. While no specific shield rating was given in "The Defector" all indications were the E-D has suffered serious shield damage and that was just the tip of the iceberg on the D'Deridex's firepower. In "A Matter of Time" a D'Deridex was firing on an unshielded Enterprise and it was causing significant system damage.

There was negligible system damage from the shot in "A Matter of Time," little enough that when time resumed nobody even mentioned the shot. And you have not provided quotes for "The Defector" or "Tin Man." This sounds like a brain bug at work. Everyone says Warbirds have more firepower without pointing to any specific evidence. "Seriously hammered" is a guesstimate I'd like to see backed up.

Also in the episode where Troi was made to look like a Tal Shiar Major, it was expected that a D'Deridex that got off the first shot after decloaking against a shielded Galaxy class could win with ease.

Who expected this and what did they say?

And with the forward placement bias of Warbirds, we still don't know that they have more firepower all around or that their shields are any more powerful than a GCS'. If your ship can put 80% of its (for instance) 100 GJ firepower into forward firing weapons, that's 80 GJ and will make its opening salvo more powerful than that from a ship that has 500GJ worth of weapons with 10% of that being forward weapons. If you've got two ships, then that's 160GJ from the two 100 GJ ships, vs. 50GJ from the 500GJ ship. But the 500GJ ship has more firepower all around. And this raises the question of why the Romulans sent two ships in "The Defector" if one could comfortably defeat the Enterprise.

We DO know they have more firepower all around because of a canon statement. The STE says this statement comes directly from "Tin Man". The D'Deridex has slightly more firepower then a Galaxy class. Combine that with a known forward bias and this means the D'Deridex has more firepower to bring to bear. As to the survivability of a Romulan ship. Even if the shields are somewhat inferior to a Galaxy class, I do not see any evidence that their shields are so massively inferior. If they were, the Federation would not fear them quite so much. As it is any possible small shield inferiority is more then made up by the fact that the D'Deridex has a very deadly forward arc.

What was the "Tin Man" statement?

[Sarevok]

I can see how the frontal bias in weapons placement can be an asset in certain situations, but generally no ship that big should have such a bias. The Defiant, for example, had its small size and maneuverability to make up for it. It could turn faster to target another ship, and was moving around too much for most ships to get behind it. Assuming your description of the D-Deridex is correct. I'm still not seeing evidence that the power is greater or even that most of the weapons are in the front. And the configuration of the D'Deridex is a structural and ergonomic nightmare that's best explained by saying the Romulans wanted it to look bigger and more fearsome than it was.

All of the Warbirds weapons are forward firing. The Warbird can not hit a target at any other angle. This is what gives it superior firepower than the Galaxy. Unlike the Galaxy which spreads its weapons throughout the ship the Warbird concentrates every weapon in a single firing arc. So when the Warbird fires all of its weapons hit the enemy simeltanously. Also the Warbird has disruptor cannons which are superior to Federation phasers and its plasma torpedos are also stronger than Federation photon torpedoes.

[Sarevok]

The D'Deridex is slightly more powerful then the original Galaxy class and slightly less powerful then the War Galaxy. The advantage/disadvantage is the Warbird has most of its weapons concetrated in the frontal arc. This means in 1-1 combat the Warbird almost always wins because it can bring more weapons to bear. They can attack with all their weapons at once while the enemy must manuver to make use of their weapons. While waiting for larger weapons to recharge the Warbird can manuever to place other ships against the enemy then reorient and fire again. The disadvantage is that a Warbird is not a good fleet ship. It can not protect its aft section very well and can easily be flanked. A relatively cheap force of throw away destroyers or attack ships can flank a Warbird and destroy it at less expense then the Warbird itself.

The D'Deridex follows much of Romulan philosphy. Stealth and utter destruction of your enemy before they can do anything. The Warbird is designed to sneak up on a ship, decloak and fire weapons killing or disabling the enemy before they can react. It is quite succesful in this area. On the other hand the Warbirds problem in fleets hurt the Romulans to a degree in the Dominion war. While they were sufficent to ward off Dominion strikes into Romulan territory, when working in Allied fleet opperations the Romulans suffered greatly and even lost a Flagship in the Battle of Cardassia.

As you pointed out the Warbirds forward firepower bias can be a liabity. Smaller ships can easily attack it from other sides. The slow moving Warbird would have difficulty turning fast enough to keep fast moving opponents within weapons arc. The Warbird captains best bet would be to cloak and sneak up on the enemy.

This makes me wonder whether Klingon Birds of Prey can actualy be more dangerous to a Warbird than a Federation GCS. The small, agile Bird of Prey can stay behind the Warbird all the time and pepper its shields with disruptor fire and torpedoes. In the Bridgecommander game I found that when properly used the Bird of Prey can kill a Warbird sometimes. Any inputs based on canon Star Trek on this Aleyska ?

[Metrion Cascade]

I can see how the frontal bias in weapons placement can be an asset in certain situations, but generally no ship that big should have such a bias. The Defiant, for example, had its small size and maneuverability to make up for it. It could turn faster to target another ship, and was moving around too much for most ships to get behind it. Assuming your description of the D-Deridex is correct. I'm still not seeing evidence that the power is greater or even that most of the weapons are in the front. And the configuration of the D'Deridex is a structural and ergonomic nightmare that's best explained by saying the Romulans wanted it to look bigger and more fearsome than it was.

All of the Warbirds weapons are forward firing. The Warbird can not hit a target at any other angle. This is what gives it superior firepower than the Galaxy. Unlike the Galaxy which spreads its weapons throughout the ship the Warbird concentrates every weapon in a single firing arc. So when the Warbird fires all of its weapons hit the enemy simeltanously. Also the Warbird has disruptor cannons which are superior to Federation phasers and its plasma torpedos are also stronger than Federation photon torpedoes.

Quotes? Plasma torpedoes haven't been seen since "Balance of Terror," even their power against a GCS hasn't been shown, and the rest I've never seen backed up by anything canon. Not the superiority of disruptors, or the supposition that the D'deridex has plasma torpedoes, or even the forward bias. People say it all the time and nobody has any quotes. It's become one of those "well, everyone knows..." things when apparently nobody does.

[Robert Walper]

I can see how the frontal bias in weapons placement can be an asset in certain situations, but generally no ship that big should have such a bias. The Defiant, for example, had its small size and maneuverability to make up for it. It could turn faster to target another ship, and was moving around too much for most ships to get behind it. Assuming your description of the D-Deridex is correct. I'm still not seeing evidence that the power is greater or even that most of the weapons are in the front. And the configuration of the D'Deridex is a structural and ergonomic nightmare that's best explained by saying the Romulans wanted it to look bigger and more fearsome than it was.

All of the Warbirds weapons are forward firing. The Warbird can not hit a target at any other angle. This is what gives it superior firepower than the Galaxy. Unlike the Galaxy which spreads its weapons throughout the ship the Warbird concentrates every weapon in a single firing arc. So when the Warbird fires all of its weapons hit the enemy simeltanously. Also the Warbird has disruptor cannons which are superior to Federation phasers and its plasma torpedos are also stronger than Federation photon torpedoes.

Quotes? Plasma torpedoes haven't been seen since "Balance of Terror," even their power against a GCS hasn't been shown, and the rest I've never seen backed up by anything canon. Not the superiority of disruptors, or the supposition that the D'deridex has plasma torpedoes, or even the forward bias. People say it all the time and nobody has any quotes. It's become one of those "well, everyone knows..." things when apparently nobody does.

Get used to it. There are many misconceptions about Trek floating around here, and even submitting evidence to the contrary of popular beliefs can be outright ignored by many here. Given my specialty(pointing at sig here), I'm familar with this.

[Alyeska]

I can see how the frontal bias in weapons placement can be an asset in certain situations, but generally no ship that big should have such a bias. The Defiant, for example, had its small size and maneuverability to make up for it. It could turn faster to target another ship, and was moving around too much for most ships to get behind it. Assuming your description of the D-Deridex is correct. I'm still not seeing evidence that the power is greater or even that most of the weapons are in the front. And the configuration of the D'Deridex is a structural and ergonomic nightmare that's best explained by saying the Romulans wanted it to look bigger and more fearsome than it was.

All of the Warbirds weapons are forward firing. The Warbird can not hit a target at any other angle. This is what gives it superior firepower than the Galaxy. Unlike the Galaxy which spreads its weapons throughout the ship the Warbird concentrates every weapon in a single firing arc. So when the Warbird fires all of its weapons hit the enemy simeltanously. Also the Warbird has disruptor cannons which are superior to Federation phasers and its plasma torpedos are also stronger than Federation photon torpedoes.

Quotes? Plasma torpedoes haven't been seen since "Balance of Terror," even their power against a GCS hasn't been shown, and the rest I've never seen backed up by anything canon. Not the superiority of disruptors, or the supposition that the D'deridex has plasma torpedoes, or even the forward bias. People say it all the time and nobody has any quotes. It's become one of those "well, everyone knows..." things when apparently nobody does.

I suggest you watch Deep Space Nine agine. OWPs carry Plasma Torpedoes and we know that the Romulans were storing Plasma Torpedoes on the moon they were leasing from Bajor. Their primary combat ship was the D'Deridex, thus logic tells us the torpedoes were for the D'Deridex class ships.

[Alyeska]

Get used to it. There are many misconceptions about Trek floating around here, and even submitting evidence to the contrary of popular beliefs can be outright ignored by many here. Given my specialty(pointing at sig here), I'm familar with this.

Pull your head out of your ass Robert. I am not some Warsie fan kibitzing Trek and I'm not like Ted who tries to make Trek weak as possible. I am one of the resident Trek experts and when it comes to Trek, I usualy know what I am talking about.

[ClaysGhost]

In the Bridgecommander game I found that when properly used the Bird of Prey can kill a Warbird sometimes.

Almost always, I think.

[Sarevok]

In the Bridgecommander game I found that when properly used the Bird of Prey can kill a Warbird sometimes.

Almost always, I think.

Depends on the Warbirds captain. The smart ones will stay cloaked and only decloak when the Bird of Prey is within weapons arc. They will cloak again whenever the Bird of Prey gets behind their ship. Pretty intense combat like WW2 submarines and destroyers.

[ClaysGhost]

In the Bridgecommander game I found that when properly used the Bird of Prey can kill a Warbird sometimes.

Almost always, I think.

Depends on the Warbirds captain. The smart ones will stay cloaked and only decloak when the Bird of Prey is within weapons arc. They will cloak again whenever the Bird of Prey gets behind their ship. Pretty intense combat like WW2 submarines and destroyers.

You can take a lot of damage from a BOP in the time it takes the warbird to cloak. Tractor beams are quite useful sometimes in this regard.

[Uraniun235]

Where was it established that all of the Warbird's weapons were forward angle?

In the Bridgecommander game I found that when properly used the Bird of Prey can kill a Warbird sometimes.

*snort* The same game where the only phasers on Federation starships are on the saucer arrays and where the torpedos and their launchers have been castrated beyond belief?