Star Trek Voyager: Mosaic

Rhoades · Post by **Rhoades** » 2003-12-26 11:07pm

Patrick Degan wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:But half of each chapter is devoted to flashbacks to her childhood... her burning desire to go to Starfleet Academy as a young girl because she refused to be a "traditional woman" (yawn, barf some more).
Did Jeri Taylor even bother to watch any of the show she ostensibly worked for as story editor? TNG showed plenty of female starship officers, female ship's surgeons, female engineers and scientists, female starship captains and female admirals in Starfleet. What the bloodyfuck was Taylor thinking about how women were portrayed in TNG-era Trek? I don't recall any Federation women in that series being confined to living the role of a "traditional woman"; Picard's sister-in-law Mairie and Worf's adoptive mother Helena Rozhenko being exceptions possibly.

Which brings into light some interesting. Without having to read the book, this is only a rough idea. But, we know for certain that female starship officers is common. So, if there is an idea that the Federation has a mindset with their idea of a 'traditional woman' (which Janeway believes the thought of enrolling in Starfleet goes completely against that), we can assume that there isn't anything which forbids to forces women to traditional comfortity. We cannot assume that their (The Federation) idea of a 'tradition woman' equals to that of the 20th centuary's american household.

An alternative, and more likely, explaination: the Janeway's "traditional woman" idea is something not enforced by Federation society, but her family background. Without reading the book, all I can say that this is my thought.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-12-27 01:05am

Darth Wong wrote:It would be extremely difficult to separate technical and political revelations from Janeway's personal biographical details, since many of the events in the book were important in her life and hinged upon technical and political issues.

For example, the Cardassian War was not just mentioned in the background; it played a pivotal role in some life-changing events for her.

Well, I misremembered the quote anyway, so it's a moot point. I'd still assume the "present-day" story in Mosaics is non-canon, but the flashback sequences are canon.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-27 01:09am

RedImperator wrote:Well, I misremembered the quote anyway, so it's a moot point. I'd still assume the "present-day" story in Mosaics is non-canon, but the flashback sequences are canon.

Then you'd like the part where it says (from her past) that you need 800MW to transport two people at once. And that Janeway was forced to choose between transporting her fiance and her father out of a sinking craft because she didn't have quite enough power.

How to deal with this dilemma? In classic Voyager fashion, she agonized for a while, tried to technobabble a solution to the problem, and then finally got her 800MW, but it was too late. Her fiance and father both drowned.

If the fucking stupid bitch had simply beamed up one of them immediately and then tried to get the second one instead of idiotically trying to technobabble her way to a two-person simultaneous beamup (in order to avoid the emotional dilemma of choosing which person to get first), one of them would have definitely survived, and possibly both of them.

Oh, by the way: SPOILER WARNING

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-27 01:21am

Does it say anything interesting about the Cardassian War and how Starfleet fought them? What tactics they used, the kind of casualties sustained, how long the war was fought etc. Or is that kind of stuff too interesting for a ST novel Paramount considers canon? (Why are two Voy novels the ONLY novels considered canon? One would think that the episode novelisations would also have that quality, but apparently not.)

Rhoades · Post by **Rhoades** » 2003-12-27 02:36am

Darth Wong wrote:If the fucking stupid bitch had simply beamed up one of them immediately and then tried to get the second one instead of idiotically trying to technobabble her way to a two-person simultaneous beamup (in order to avoid the emotional dilemma of choosing which person to get first), one of them would have definitely survived, and possibly both of them.

After reading this: I should note, well, rather recall Kirk being in a similar situation in ST5. As well all known Kirk, Spook, and Bones were just about to face the wrath of 'god' and the transporter could only take two at a time. I hate to see Janeway in that situation.

Then again, the man who wasted the sperm to seed Janeway deserved his fate. Also, anyone willing to marry her is better off sleeping with fishes (much, much better off).

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-12-27 02:45am

Darth Wong wrote:Oh, by the way: SPOILER WARNING

Well now you've just gone and spoiled the whole novel for me, Mike. And I was all set to read it, too. God's honest truth, I was. I guess I'll just have to look at more porn instead.

EDIT: Wait, are you telling me one couldn't have tread water for five minutes while the transporter recharged? I feel like I have to be missing something here, or else this is an even more remarkably stupid plot point than it already is. (Gasp! A stupid plot point in a mass-media sci-fi novel? Never!)

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-12-27 03:03am

Darth Wong wrote:Then you'd like the part where it says (from her past) that you need 800MW to transport two people at once. And that Janeway was forced to choose between transporting her fiance and her father out of a sinking craft because she didn't have quite enough power.

How to deal with this dilemma? In classic Voyager fashion, she agonized for a while, tried to technobabble a solution to the problem, and then finally got her 800MW, but it was too late. Her fiance and father both drowned.

If the fucking stupid bitch had simply beamed up one of them immediately and then tried to get the second one instead of idiotically trying to technobabble her way to a two-person simultaneous beamup (in order to avoid the emotional dilemma of choosing which person to get first), one of them would have definitely survived, and possibly both of them.

So... because her father or fiancee apparently not only never learned to swim or tread water but never even learned to float on their backs, they both had to die because Janeway was too stupid to either beam one up then the other, or beam down a couple of floatation vests.

BWAHAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Star Trek: The Wrath of Darwin

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-12-27 03:09am

I'm thinking they had to be trapped on the boat or unconscious or quadrapelegiac amputees or something. I mean, it takes months to write a novel, through multiple drafts, and it's got to get past an editor and a copyeditor (who's paid to find stupid mistakes) before it ever gets printed. Someone, somewhere, has to come up with "Why didn't they just tread water?"

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-12-27 03:37am

RedImperator wrote:I'm thinking they had to be trapped on the boat or unconscious or quadrapelegiac amputees or something. I mean, it takes months to write a novel, through multiple drafts, and it's got to get past an editor and a copyeditor (who's paid to find stupid mistakes) before it ever gets printed.

If they can't be bothered to go to that much trouble producing the episodes, why would they do so for a novel? Especially if they let Taylor do all the editing on her own manuscript.

Someone, somewhere, has to come up with "Why didn't they just tread water?"

Along with "why didn't they just float on their backs" and "why didn't Janeway just bite the bullet and make a decision". Ah, the wonderful world of Star Trek mass media...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-12-27 04:38am

It's been a long time, but I swear that when Jeri Taylor was talking about TNG on one of those anniversary shows, she talked about it almost as if they wanted to push it into a more soap-opera-ish direction. (And then of course with the later seasons, that seemed to come close to materializing)

(Why are two Voy novels the ONLY novels considered canon? One would think that the episode novelisations would also have that quality, but apparently not.)

Because Voyager existed to stroke the producers' egos (Taylor being among them), and Janeway is their fucking pet that they think endears themselves to feminist movements and other politically correct groups.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2003-12-27 04:55am

Darth Wong wrote:If the fucking stupid bitch had simply beamed up one of them immediately and then tried to get the second one instead of idiotically trying to technobabble her way to a two-person simultaneous beamup (in order to avoid the emotional dilemma of choosing which person to get first), one of them would have definitely survived, and possibly both of them.

Wasn't her father a Starfleet officer? He might have even had enough technical training to help her implement the aforementioned technobabble. I assume the fiancee was a much younger man than her father, so chances are he was also in better health and might have been able to last longer than daddy under water and been more receptive to revival attempts once they got him out.

She could have even cried at the end to satisfy the soap opera imperatives of the narrative form. Yay!

-- Joe Momma

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-12-27 07:12am

Darth Wong wrote:
RedImperator wrote:Well, I misremembered the quote anyway, so it's a moot point. I'd still assume the "present-day" story in Mosaics is non-canon, but the flashback sequences are canon.
Then you'd like the part where it says (from her past) that you need 800MW to transport two people at once. And that Janeway was forced to choose between transporting her fiance and her father out of a sinking craft because she didn't have quite enough power.

How to deal with this dilemma? In classic Voyager fashion, she agonized for a while, tried to technobabble a solution to the problem, and then finally got her 800MW, but it was too late. Her fiance and father both drowned.

If the fucking stupid bitch had simply beamed up one of them immediately and then tried to get the second one instead of idiotically trying to technobabble her way to a two-person simultaneous beamup (in order to avoid the emotional dilemma of choosing which person to get first), one of them would have definitely survived, and possibly both of them.

Oh, by the way: SPOILER WARNING

Uh...your kidding...right?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-27 01:48pm

Hah hah, you wish. Wait till you see the part about space bugs using acid to burn through Voyager's shields.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-12-27 01:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:Hah hah, you wish. Wait till you see the part about space bugs using acid to burn through Voyager's shields.

You're making this up.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-12-27 10:35pm

Darth Wong wrote:Hah hah, you wish. Wait till you see the part about space bugs using acid to burn through Voyager's shields.

So the Vong did attack Star Trek

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-12-27 10:55pm

Darth Wong wrote:Hah hah, you wish. Wait till you see the part about space bugs using acid to burn through Voyager's shields.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wow, anyone else and I would scream foul.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-27 11:32pm

For those who doubted the asinine stupidity of which I spoke, a series of direct quotes and excerpts from the book have now been posted in a separate thread.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-27 11:34pm

Darth Wong wrote:Hah hah, you wish. Wait till you see the part about space bugs using acid to burn through Voyager's shields.

Supports the idea that the shields are some kind of plasma field or other physical barrier, after all pure energy wouldn't be affected but anything solid would (and would also be susceptible to NDF, explaining why phasers are so good against them moreso then straight EM weapons)

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2003-12-29 04:23pm

How can you even try to rationalize this?

How can anyone write such stupidity?

WHY IS THIS CANNON?

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2003-12-29 07:55pm

The Silence and I wrote:How can you even try to rationalize this?

How can anyone write such stupidity?

WHY IS THIS CANNON?

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?d ... 7-04&res=l

Any further questions?

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2003-12-30 07:19pm

Matt Huang wrote:
The Silence and I wrote:How can you even try to rationalize this?

How can anyone write such stupidity?

WHY IS THIS CANNON?
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?d ... 7-04&res=l

Any further questions?

Silence think's that's funny as hell and is going to save it to his computer. He's at my house and mooching off my food like the lazy bastard he is.