Star Trek - Real Friends

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-11-10 11:49pm

CorSec wrote:If Spock said he's your friend, then dammit, he's your friend.

Well, either that, or he wants to borrow money.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-11-10 11:55pm

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:
CorSec wrote:If Spock said he's your friend, then dammit, he's your friend.
Well, either that, or he wants to borrow money.

That greenblooded inhuman....

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-11 12:05am

A question related to Spocks death: How many people here got atleast misty eyed during that scene between Spock and Kirk? I admit that I did.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-11-11 01:08am

Misty eyed? Fuck, sometimes I'm damn close to outright crying when I watch that scene.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-11-11 01:44am

Aya wrote:A question related to Spocks death: How many people here got atleast misty eyed during that scene between Spock and Kirk? I admit that I did.

Dude, this is something that was never said -- I was still a kid when I saw that (on video) and thank the gods I was the only one in the room, because I fuckin' lost it. Now I never wrote that, and you never read it. Got it?

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-11-11 01:35pm

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:Now I never wrote that, and you never read it. Got it?

Never wrote what?

PUBLIUS

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-11-12 01:38am

Uraniun235 wrote:Misty eyed? Fuck, sometimes I'm damn close to outright crying when I watch that scene.

"Jim... You'd better get down here. Better hurry."

The heartpunch always starts when Kirk looks over and the POV switches to that empty chair at the science station.

"SPOCK!"

"The ship. Out of danger?"

"Yes."

"Don't grieve, Admiral. It's logical. The needs...of the many..."

"Outweigh the needs of the few."

"Or the One. I have been, and ever shall be, your friend. Live long...and prosper."

"He spoke of friendship"

"Yes."

"He asked you not to grieve."

"Yes."

"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. Or the One."

"Spock..."

" 'I have been, and ever shall be, your friend. Live long...and prosper'."

"Noooo...."

I defy anyone to be able to quote any Bashir/O'Brien buddy scene purely from memory.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-12 01:44am

Perhaps B&B would do well to read about the conduct of soldiers in war. According to these men, they formed closer friendships with their squad-mates than they ever did with anyone in civilian life. Yet B&B seem to think that if you don't show people lounging around a bar and playing games together and "only" show their loyalty to each other while serving in their military (not technically true anyway, but I digress), then they're not "real" friends.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-11-12 01:48am

Darth Wong wrote:Perhaps B&B would do well to read about the conduct of soldiers in war. According to these men, they formed closer friendships with their squad-mates than they ever did with anyone in civilian life. Yet B&B seem to think that if you don't show people lounging around a bar and playing games together and "only" show their loyalty to each other while serving in their military (not technically true anyway, but I digress), then they're not "real" friends.

I think their model of "real" friendship derives from Cheers.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-11-12 01:51am

Patrick Degan wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Perhaps B&B would do well to read about the conduct of soldiers in war. According to these men, they formed closer friendships with their squad-mates than they ever did with anyone in civilian life. Yet B&B seem to think that if you don't show people lounging around a bar and playing games together and "only" show their loyalty to each other while serving in their military (not technically true anyway, but I digress), then they're not "real" friends.
I think their model of "real" friendship derives from Cheers.

People's Exhbit 1: Morn = Norm. This is sooooo fucking sad.

The more I read up on all these examples the more I have to wonder what kind of dream world these people are liviing in when they write these shows. It is a symptopm of the later plagues of B&B where they actually view the TOS as restraining their creativity.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-12 02:06am

Patrick Degan wrote: "Jim... You'd better get down here. Better hurry."

The heartpunch always starts when Kirk looks over and the POV switches to that empty chair at the science station.

"SPOCK!"

"The ship. Out of danger?"

"Yes."

"Don't grieve, Admiral. It's logical. The needs...of the many..."

"Outweigh the needs of the few."

"Or the One. I have been, and ever shall be, your friend. Live long...and prosper."

"He spoke of friendship"

"Yes."

"He asked you not to grieve."

"Yes."

"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. Or the One."

"Spock..."

" 'I have been, and ever shall be, your friend. Live long...and prosper'."

"Noooo...."

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-12 03:13am

Hello all. Long-time lurker first-time poster.

Stravo, I have a question about the crew dossiers. Were they some voiceover which detailed examples of the O'brian/Bashir friendship, like a mini-documentary, or were they interviews of the cast?

If it was the cast that were interviewed, then I think it can be safely assumed they're your regular no-brain actors getting full of themselves. Or getting paid to be full of themselves.

If it were some mini-documentary, then I feel its a vain attempt to discredit or marginalise the Original Series. There's no way in hell O'Brian and Bashir were ST's only 'real' friendship. They bloody hell started the show hating each other!

Stupid B&B...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-11-12 04:11am

Patrick Degan wrote:I think their model of "real" friendship derives from Cheers.

Wasn't Berman a producer of Cheers?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-11-12 04:22am

You guys almost forget...Braga never watched any of TOS, so of course he wouldnt know!

How cool would it be for a time portal to open so that we may have the chance of seeing Deforest Kelly smack the shit out of that asshole Bashir.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-11-12 04:51am

Uraniun235 wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote:I think their model of "real" friendship derives from Cheers.
Wasn't Berman a producer of Cheers?

Damned if you aren't right. I'd no idea of Darth Hack's bio prior to TNG. The Cheers association was a wild guess on my part.

Startrek.com wrote:Berman joined the Paramount family in 1984 as director of current programming, overseeing Cheers, Family Ties and Webster. Within a year, he was named executive director of dramatic programming, overseeing the development of the telefilms, mini-series and specials including the epic Space, Wallenberg: A Hero's Story and ABC's top-rated MacGyver. He was promoted in May 1986 to vice president, longform and special projects for Paramount Network Television, overseeing the development of telefilms, mini-series and specials. In 1987, he was selected by Gene Roddenberry to join him as he created Star Trek: The Next Generation. In 1991, following Roddenberry's death, Berman took over the reins for Star Trek.

Prior to joining Paramount, he was director of dramatic development for Warner Bros. Television. He was an independent producer on numerous projects from 1982-1984, including What on Earth, an informational series for HBO, and The Primal Mind, a one-hour award-winning special for PBS. From 1977-1982, he was senior producer of The Big Blue Marble, for which he won an Emmy for Outstanding Children's Series.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-12 05:12am

Wow, you have to admit that he has an impressive resume. Still a douche bag. But a douche bag with an impressive resume.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-11-12 11:13am

Stofsk wrote:Stravo, I have a question about the crew dossiers. Were they some voiceover which detailed examples of the O'brian/Bashir friendship, like a mini-documentary, or were they interviews of the cast?

If it was the cast that were interviewed, then I think it can be safely assumed they're your regular no-brain actors getting full of themselves. Or getting paid to be full of themselves.

If it were some mini-documentary, then I feel its a vain attempt to discredit or marginalise the Original Series. There's no way in hell O'Brian and Bashir were ST's only 'real' friendship. They bloody hell started the show hating each other!

Stupid B&B...

It was both, normally I wouldn't be as pissed if it was just the actor for Bashir and O'Brien talking smack about their characters, but when you have the producer who personally knew Roddenberry (Ira Behr) saying that "Kirk and Spock's relationship was more professional than anything else." it really pisses me off.

They are continuing the fine tradition of TNG era Trek trying its best to marginalize TOS Trek because they are sick and tired of being compared and usually coming out worse for it.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-13 02:06am

Both? Interesting. So both Siddig and Colm (Bashir and O'Brien) are saying theirs was the only 'real' friendship on Trek, while the show's producer is backing them up? I would really like to say that I was surprised, in fact I was hoping it would just be the actor's blowing themselves up with hot air - but if the show's producer says something like this then it speaks of a delusional self-importance that isn't deserved.

Are there any other extras of interest in the DS9 DVDs? Say, perhaps a commentary on 'Sacrifice of Angels' where the director or writer tried to justify the Deus Ex Machina ending?

What about the 'Trouble with Tribbles' knockoff episode in DS9's 5th season? That episode in particular would be rife with TOS/DS9 comparisons, I should think.

Are there any other extras/docos/interviews etc where they try to marginalise TOS in favour of current Trek (whether DS9, TNG or VOY)?

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-11-13 03:40am

Trials and Tribulations was an episode made in honor of the 30th anniversary of Trek. They were paying homage to one of the top five best Trek episodes ever.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-13 03:50am

Aya wrote:Trials and Tribulations was an episode made in honor of the 30th anniversary of Trek. They were paying homage to one of the top five best Trek episodes ever.

I know. It wasn't one of my favourites, however. The highlight of that episode was watching Terry Farrel (Dax) dress up in a miniskirt. Ohhh, yeah...

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-11-13 05:22am

Stofsk wrote:
Aya wrote:Trials and Tribulations was an episode made in honor of the 30th anniversary of Trek. They were paying homage to one of the top five best Trek episodes ever.
I know. It wasn't one of my favourites, however. The highlight of that episode was watching Terry Farrel (Dax) dress up in a miniskirt. Ohhh, yeah...

One thing can be said in favour of "Trials And Tribbleations": at least the DS9 people went out of their way to duplicate the look, feel, and overall spirit of TOS to do a real tribute to Star Trek on its 30th anniversary. By contrast, Brannon Braga used his Voyager script "Flashbacks" as a vehicle to literally shit all over TOS for the occasion in what amounted to a most naked and public expression of contempt. An absolute disgrace.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-11-13 06:49am

I really loved what Janeway said at the end of that episode, in a not-so-subtle slight against TOS: "They were a different brand of Starfleet officer, for a different time." And oh boy, don't we know it.

I was hard on DS9 because it was my favourite post-TOS Trek series. VOY and ENT are beneath contempt, while TNG just bores me to tears nowadays.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-11-13 11:21am

Aya wrote:Trials and Tribulations was an episode made in honor of the 30th anniversary of Trek. They were paying homage to one of the top five best Trek episodes ever.

In the Season 5 extras they interview Ira Behr and the one of the head writers whose name escapes me now but went on to write Andromeda and they were reluctant to do a 30th anniversary episode because Ira said that DS9 was its own Trek show. Ass. If there was no TOS there would be no DS9. This is the attitude that pisses me off about the new era Trek.

They are happily chowing down on Roddenberry's carcass but refuse to acknoweldge that they're beholden to him and his ideas in any way.

It was only after Voyager announced that they were doing a 30th anniversary special as well that they reluctantly did it. (PLus there is a DEFINITE rivalry between the Voy creative folks and DS9 folks. There have been some very subtle barbs slipped in by Behr and Moore against Voyager in the interviews they've given.)

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-11-13 03:57pm

You might be interested in this interview with Moore, Stravo, in which he goes through and explains what went wrong with Voyager.

http://oregonstate.edu/~christyw/voyager.txt

EDIT: I just looked up Flashback. Talk about a blatant continuity error; the officer that Tuvok tried to help on the Excelsior that died was seen in Sulu's send-off message at the end of ST6!

Motherfuckers.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-11-13 05:00pm

Let's not forget the episode where the aliens hijacked the enterprise and Kirk, Spock, Bones, Sulu, etc won by getting them all DRUNK. (It's green)