Would vampires even be a threat in today's modern world?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-10-07 04:56pm

If I was a vampire, I would want to be one of the "Preacher"-verse... sunlight kills ya... but any other injuries'll heal right up.

"Ever get a stake through your heart?"
"Uh... no."
"Fuckin' hurts."

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-10-07 08:45pm

SirNitram wrote: And stuff it's mouth with something. Even in a household where mythology is conversasion, Tev and I can't recall if it's Garlic or Holy Wafers.

IIRC Stoker vampires don't need their mouths stuffed with anything-just a stake through the heart and a severed head, although van Helsing did use holy wafers to purify the dirt in Dracula's coffins so he couldn't sleep in them anymore.

Of course, expecting any consistency in vampire lore across Europe is really asking too much. There's garlic, lemons, carrots, and all sorts of strange stuff that needs to be stuffed in a vampire's head depending on where you are.

Don't even ask about silver.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-10-07 08:52pm

They can't cross running water without being carried across, right? If all else fails we can retreat across the Mississipi.

Of course, they can't enter a house without being invited, right?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-10-07 11:26pm

HemlockGrey wrote:They can't cross running water without being carried across, right? If all else fails we can retreat across the Mississipi.

Of course, they can't enter a house without being invited, right?

They can hypnotise you and make you give them permission..

Or just firebomb the building.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-10-08 12:12am

Master:

Van Helsing didn't really kill Dracula. If you examine the circumstances of the final sequence in the book, it actually becomes an interesting political allegory. When Van Helsing stabs Dracula, Dracula turns himself into a mist and the characters no longer see him. However, the question as to whether or not he actually died remained open until Stoker wrote a follow-up, in which Dracula was still alive but had retreated due to weariness of his "life."

Could you please quote in english the final part of Dracula. The portuguese version i have say he became "dust" not "mist" and was never seen anymore and in the next paragraph there is a line about the face of dracula and they say that he was dying and looked peaceful.

I also would like more information about this short story ? Is this "Dracula's Guest" ?

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-10-08 12:39am

nevermind, I found it:

"the whole body crumbled into dust and passed from our sight."

he does not turn in mist, but dust...seems like death. Plus the curse over Mina was over - the characters does belive Dracula is dead also becauseo that (Quincey states he did not died in vain just because of that) - and AVH said only the death of Dracula would lift the curse.
The ending of the book is to mean Dracula was killed.
(now it still the matter of this short story. Is it "Dracula's Guest" ?)

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-10-08 12:43am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Wow, what a fine idea... perfectly consistent with the American ideals of justice

[bush]If you're not with us, you're with the vampires![/bush]

LordChaos · Post by **LordChaos** » 2003-10-08 05:33am

American answer : Which side has the nukes? (and yes, I sorta doubt a Stroker vamp, or even the top end Rice vamps could survive ground zero).

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-10-08 06:13am

It's going to be very difficult. Let's assume they're in an area which can be geographically isolated, like Long Island. Let's also assume that it's the government that finds out about it first, and they know for a fact that the vampires are all confined to Long Island. They cut off the land routes in and out, establish a naval blockade, and shoot down any aircraft entering or leaving the restricted area. Now the government has to figure out how to go about the task of sweeping the entire area to find the vampires.

That would be best case. The problem is, the knee-jerk reaction will be "vampires are a fairy tale... they don't exist." Right away, they're losing time having to convince different government agencies that the threat is real. The vampires may also not be in an area which can be isolated that conveniently, in which case the manpower to establish the quarantine is going to be a problem. There's also the possibility that the government may not discover this first. If the story broke on the 5 o'clock news, the vampires will have time to scatter before a quarantine of the area could be established. In that event you could never be certain you got them all.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-10-08 07:11am

lgot wrote:nevermind, I found it:

"the whole body crumbled into dust and passed from our sight."

he does not turn in mist, but dust...seems like death. Plus the curse over Mina was over - the characters does belive Dracula is dead also becauseo that (Quincey states he did not died in vain just because of that) - and AVH said only the death of Dracula would lift the curse.
The ending of the book is to mean Dracula was killed.
(now it still the matter of this short story. Is it "Dracula's Guest" ?)

A) No other vampire died like Dracula. They were bloody affairs.
B) It was said that if you fail to kill a vampire he would immedatly turn to mist, dust doesn't seem that big of change.
C) Dracula's powers were suppose to be active when the suns start to set or rise, so his powers were active.
D) Mina's release could of been planned that way. Perfect way of clinching the idea of his death don't you think?

May I suggest Fred Suphgens Dracula Tapes and Quincy Morris: Vampire for a indepth look on to how Dracula could've faked his death with what was given in the book.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-10-08 08:18am

Darth_Shinji wrote: May I suggest Fred Suphgens Dracula Tapes and Quincy Morris: Vampire for a indepth look on to how Dracula could've faked his death with what was given in the book.

Most of Saberhagen's Dracula books are pretty good.

Another Dracual didn't really die at the end of Dracula book is Blood of the Impaler by Jeffery Sackett.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-10-08 11:23am

A) No other vampire died like Dracula. They were bloody affairs.

No other vampire was killed like Dracula. Lucy was killed during the night. Plus no other vampire was older as Dracula.

B) It was said that if you fail to kill a vampire he would immedatly turn to mist, dust doesn't seem that big of change.

Dust is Not Mist. It is a big chance. Even because the Mist remains to be seen, The dust was there, dead. If they have saw "Mist" moving , they would have doubts. The characters have no doubt.

C) Dracula's powers were suppose to be active when the suns start to set or rise, so his powers were active.

"The Castle of Dracula now stood out against the red sky,
and every stone of its broken battlements was articulated
against the light of the setting sun."

the sun was setting when he was killed. The same instant. Plus this is irrelevant - by Van Helsing lore, active or not, a cut head is dead.

D) Mina's release could of been planned that way. Perfect way of clinching the idea of his death don't you think?

Wonderful. But this is not said anywhere. The books end with Dracula dying, that is all information we can get from there.
We and Hammer can always find ways to bring him back, but in Stoker's, in the book, there is no such notion.

May I suggest Fred Suphgens Dracula Tapes and Quincy Morris: Vampire for a indepth look on to how Dracula could've faked his death with what was given in the book.

I know Dracula's tapes and besides the already said Hammer's Dracula movies where he returns in thousand different ways, there is also other works that bring dracula back. The point they are no longer Stoker's Dracula but someone else's Dracula.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-10-08 12:08pm

lgot wrote:
A) No other vampire died like Dracula. They were bloody affairs.

No other vampire was killed like Dracula. Lucy was killed during the night. Plus no other vampire was older as Dracula.

Kinda of a iffy point to make isn't? Helsing certainly made no indication as to expect anything different. As oppose to what we do know about what happens if you fall to kill a vampire.

Dust is Not Mist. It is a big chance. Even because the Mist remains to be seen, The dust was there, dead. If they have saw "Mist" moving , they would have doubts. The characters have no doubt.

With all the shape changing he has its not immposible he has one or two they didn't know about?

"The Castle of Dracula now stood out against the red sky,
and every stone of its broken battlements was articulated
against the light of the setting sun."

As I looked, the eyes saw the sinking sun, and the look of hate in them turned to triumph.

He gets his powers back, then he fakes his death. Perfect.

the sun was setting when he was killed. The same instant. Plus this is irrelevant - by Van Helsing lore, active or not, a cut head is dead.

As soon as the sun begins, same as he gets his powers back a noon. The only thing was is that he was coming out of sleep.

Wonderful. But this is not said anywhere. The books end with Dracula dying, that is all information we can get from there.
We and Hammer can always find ways to bring him back, but in Stoker's, in the book, there is no such notion.

Except it was giving in another short story by Stoker that Dracula surivied. I'm mearly filling in the pieces on how he might have did what we know he did.

I know Dracula's tapes and besides the already said Hammer's Dracula movies where he returns in thousand different ways, there is also other works that bring dracula back. The point they are no longer Stoker's Dracula but someone else's Dracula.

Heck you're the one ingnoring the fact that Bram later says he did survive. I'm just trying to help your disbelive on how he could of survived. [/i]

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-10-09 12:01am

Darth_Shinji

You are not understanding. I can think and I know thousands of versions of Dracula giving options beyond the book. Expect , like all options you gave, they are beyond the book. By the Book alone he is dead. To use some familiar word - The Cannon - Stoker's Dracula ends with his death. Non-Cannon - Dracula have lived more and far than anything.

and yeah, I am waiting for this fragment. I want to see it. I ask again, is this fragment "Dracula's Guest" ? Or any other ? Where I can find it to see ?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-09 02:27am

Vampires could be quite dangerous in today's world. So could serial killers. What's the difference? They're not a large-scale threat; they're a small-scale threat. Vampires could do their absolute worst and cause far less death and destruction than youth gangs or cigarettes. They would be an annoying pimple on the ass of society, not a serious threat.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-10-09 02:34am

Darth Wong wrote:Vampires could be quite dangerous in today's world. So could serial killers. What's the difference? They're not a large-scale threat; they're a small-scale threat. Vampires could do their absolute worst and cause far less death and destruction than youth gangs or cigarettes. They would be an annoying pimple on the ass of society, not a serious threat.

Someone who's been alive for centuries could have a huge fortune, and use it to manipulate politics in the country they live in. Would you want a serial killer to have bought all the cops in the city you live in and be partying it up with the politicians in your federal capital?

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-10-09 02:40am

SirNitram wrote:feeding on the Goth subcuture initially for all the obvious reasons.

Hey.. I resemble that remark.

lgot wrote:Dust is Not Mist. It is a big chance. Even because the Mist remains to be seen, The dust was there, dead. If they have saw "Mist" moving , they would have doubts. The characters have no doubt.

Who is to say that mist does not move?

~ver

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-10-09 02:41am

Oh, and in regards to the crossing the Mississipi.. unfortunately, we do have commercial airlines, in which case, they could easily get over that obstacle, being carried over, even by unnatural means.

~ver

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-10-09 02:43am

verilon wrote:Oh, and in regards to the crossing the Mississipi.. unfortunately, we do have commercial airlines, in which case, they could easily get over that obstacle, being carried over, even by unnatural means.

~ver

Heck, they could send themselves by air freight. Living people have done that, after all.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-09 02:44am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Vampires could be quite dangerous in today's world. So could serial killers. What's the difference? They're not a large-scale threat; they're a small-scale threat. Vampires could do their absolute worst and cause far less death and destruction than youth gangs or cigarettes. They would be an annoying pimple on the ass of society, not a serious threat.
Someone who's been alive for centuries could have a huge fortune, and use it to manipulate politics in the country they live in. Would you want a serial killer to have bought all the cops in the city you live in and be partying it up with the politicians in your federal capital?

Then he would only invite scrutiny, which would be a bad idea for him. And what would he do with political influence that's any worse than what special interests and well-connected lobbyists already do?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-10-09 03:27am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:So you send out a SWAT team with Predator-style goggles, dum-dum bullets, and flamethrowers, with orders to smoke anyone who's too cold. Problem solved.
Wow, what a fine idea... perfectly consistent with the American ideals of justice

When was the last time a bear was afforded civil rights? A wolf? Puma? Great White? How about a tiger?

They aren't human, they are the natural predators of humans. And they would fall under the same category of predators as other species.

Might be interesting if they get declared endangered though.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-10-09 04:13am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
verilon wrote:Oh, and in regards to the crossing the Mississipi.. unfortunately, we do have commercial airlines, in which case, they could easily get over that obstacle, being carried over, even by unnatural means.

~ver
Heck, they could send themselves by air freight. Living people have done that, after all.

True, true. But they could also do it comfortably, turn into mist, and then get on the plane. Once it's in flight, they could mist themselves into first class, ne?

~ver

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-09 04:19am

Ender wrote:They aren't human, they are the natural predators of humans. And they would fall under the same category of predators as other species.

Might be interesting if they get declared endangered though.

We'd put the vampires in zoos?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-10-09 05:13am

Darth Wong wrote: We'd put the vampires in zoos?

As a resident vampire I must protest....what about the stress?!

Though, to be honest, even the most foul vampire would be little more of a threat to society as a whole than the likes of Charles Manson.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2003-10-09 05:48am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Would you want a serial killer to have bought all the cops in the city you live in and be partying it up with the politicians in your federal capital?

Hey, now, no thread hi-jacks. There'll always be time to discuss the Bush presidency later...

-- Joe Momma

I know it's not a fair joke --- most serial killers are much more selective about their victims.