I'm going to try rewriting "Nemesis" (long post)

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2003-09-22 04:07pm

Kuja wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:Can anyone remember the last good battle that Star Trek had?
Enterprise and Excelsior vs the BOP in STVI.

Fuck yeah!

TOWNMNBS · Post by **TOWNMNBS** » 2003-09-22 08:01pm

Nope I'm not Timothy Jones. I do happen to agree with him on some matters of vs. debates. Although Darkstar's site is much more definitive and well researched.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-22 08:02pm

I estimate you'll be gone by the end of the week.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-09-22 10:10pm

TOWNMNBS wrote:Nope I'm not Timothy Jones. I do happen to agree with him on some matters of vs. debates. Although Darkstar's site is much more definitive and well researched.

Normaly this screams sock pupet, but I don't know.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2003-09-22 11:15pm

Metrion Cascade:

To put it bluntly, you're talking about standard fanboy shit. The biggest problem with Nemesis was its complete inability to connect the audience with the characters on any kind of emotional level (not to mention a completely meaningless plot), and you're worried about armour-plating the Argo, trying to make the space battle cooler, trying to tie into an old TNG episode, amping up the destructive display of the technobabble weapon, etc.

Funny...I specifically said I'd leave Sela out because her backstory is too complex, and only TNG fans would be able to make any sense of her. And yes, scale does matter in a movie like this. Hence the action in AOTC. It's hard to be afraid of the Death Star if you don't see it blow up Alderaan. And I seem to recall quite a bit of fanboy shit you've written as well. The question is whether it's any good, not who wrote it. As if anybody cared about Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi in TPM? I recognize that Nemesis' plot made no sense at all (and take personal offense at such bad writing inflicted on my favorite franchise). Hence the rewrite.

Clone Sergeant · Post by **Clone Sergeant** » 2003-09-23 01:58am

Metrion Cascade wrote:
Metrion Cascade:

To put it bluntly, you're talking about standard fanboy shit. The biggest problem with Nemesis was its complete inability to connect the audience with the characters on any kind of emotional level (not to mention a completely meaningless plot), and you're worried about armour-plating the Argo, trying to make the space battle cooler, trying to tie into an old TNG episode, amping up the destructive display of the technobabble weapon, etc.
Funny...I specifically said I'd leave Sela out because her backstory is too complex, and only TNG fans would be able to make any sense of her. And yes, scale does matter in a movie like this. Hence the action in AOTC. It's hard to be afraid of the Death Star if you don't see it blow up Alderaan. And I seem to recall quite a bit of fanboy shit you've written as well. The question is whether it's any good, not who wrote it. As if anybody cared about Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi in TPM? I recognize that Nemesis' plot made no sense at all (and take personal offense at such bad writing inflicted on my favorite franchise). Hence the rewrite.

Take it easy Metrion, Mike's merely pointing out that you should focus more on the characters and plot and not on the tech if you want to improve the film's script.

And a little advice, be careful with the flames because around here you will get them back with interest.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2003-09-23 02:09am

Take it easy Metrion, Mike's merely pointing out that you should focus more on the characters and plot and not on the tech if you want to improve the film's script.

Certainly. I could come up with awesome tech that would make any sci-fi movie a complete bore. So the plot is my main concern. But I'm also the artistic sort, and want the visceral thrills. I mean, "The Matrix Reloaded" has no plot whatsoever, but the fights got it into theatres.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-23 02:15am

Metrion Cascade wrote:Funny...I specifically said I'd leave Sela out because her backstory is too complex, and only TNG fans would be able to make any sense of her. And yes, scale does matter in a movie like this. Hence the action in AOTC. It's hard to be afraid of the Death Star if you don't see it blow up Alderaan.

There's a difference between scale and technowanking, dumb-ass. When your suggestions for improving a movie are dominated by suggestions for new weapons systems and the addition of "thousands of torpedoes" to the E-E, that is class-A fanboy wanking. If you honestly think people would have liked the movie if the E-E had a bigger torpedo loadout or Data had "beefed himself up" with various combat accessories or the Argo had armour, you're nuts.

And I seem to recall quite a bit of fanboy shit you've written as well.

Such as? Let us take my review of AOTC; at what point did I suggest improving the film by adding technowanking to it?

The question is whether it's any good, not who wrote it.

When did I say I cared who wrote it?

As if anybody cared about Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi in TPM?

Which was precisely why TPM was not a highly regarded SW film, dumb-ass. You have to like the characters; they don't need to be richly defined, ultra-deep people, but you have to be interested in them.

I recognize that Nemesis' plot made no sense at all (and take personal offense at such bad writing inflicted on my favorite franchise). Hence the rewrite.

Except that your rewrite did not address the plot problems at all; you spent most of your time on technowaking, and the only plot suggestions you had involved tacking on expository scenes to the existing fiasco of a story!

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-09-23 02:41am

Not to hijack, but I loved Qui Gon in Episode I. The problem was that he couldn't save the movie from the charachters noone cared about (Obi Wan sucks in Ep 1, as does Amidala and Anakin), the lacklustre villains (the snivelling TradeFeds were a non factor, and Maul says like one thing in the entire movie).

CorSec · Post by **CorSec** » 2003-09-23 02:53am

Alyeska wrote:Furthermore I would like to point out the stunning success of The Undiscovered Country. This movie was brilliantly portrayed and had something very few other Trek movies can really call on. It had a real plot that forced you to think.

I can't help but agree with you here, Alyeska. Now you've got me wondering if Nemesis could have been any better (or, gulp!; worse) if they had tried a hackneyed version of The Undiscovered Country (but aimed at the Romulans - and I mean the Romulans). I think it's been mentioned a few times here, as a matter of fact. Take the "I hate Romulans!" passion of Shinzon and aim it at the Romulans, then somehow get Picard and the gang to try and stop him from accomplishing (insert evil deed). But, I digress.

Oh, and to make myself look like I'm actually on topic here: Having Data "bulk up" is unnecessary, he's already far stronger and more agile than any known species (humanoid or otherwise), save the nigh on godly ones. Other than that, I don't care to comment.

TurboPhaser · Post by **TurboPhaser** » 2003-09-23 03:44am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I estimate you'll be gone by the end of the week.

If he gets banned for his opinion, I will be seriously disappointed.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-23 03:56am

No, he'll be banned because all that he has demonstrated is that he is nothing but a troll.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-09-23 01:49pm

TurboPhaser wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I estimate you'll be gone by the end of the week.
If he gets banned for his opinion, I will be seriously disappointed.

If he is who I'd bet green money he is, he's an impersonator and a worthless troll, and he's already been banned.