I saw Nemesis last night...

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-09-09 02:03pm

I wonder if the movie would've been better if they'd combined the Shinzon and B-4 plots into one and make Star Trek X: The Wrath of Lore...

Ronaldo · Post by **Ronaldo** » 2003-09-09 10:19pm

Stravo wrote:Keep in mind in regard to the Klingon Rommie sameness that the BOP in ST:III was originally an upgraded Romulan War Bird and that the Romulans were going to be the villains, then it evolved to Kruge stealing a Romulan ship to finally Kruge simply being the commander and none of the writers changing the fact that it was a Bird of Prey.

So in typical Trek fashion, they take a writing blunder and run with it. The ship designers for TNG had no idea so the Klingon and Romulan ships tend to have the same look. In TMP and TWOK the Klingon ships are obviously Klingon and different from warbirds. It was the fuckup in ST:III that started this mess.

Well, in Enterprise the Klingons now have warbirds.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-09-10 12:36am

Was is explain why 'Shinzon' is bald when Picard at that age had a full set of hair?

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2003-09-10 04:47am

He probably just shaved off his hair. In a way it also makes sense since he lived and worked in poor hygienic environment.

Embracer Of Darkness · Post by **Embracer Of Darkness** » 2003-09-10 12:54pm

Rubberanvil wrote:Was is explain why 'Shinzon' is bald when Picard at that age had a full set of hair?

Was wondering that myself, in the movie Picard was looking at a picture of his younger self, and in that picture he was bald.

But we know he had hair as a young man.

Fucked up.

JodoForce · Post by **JodoForce** » 2003-09-10 01:52pm

Ronaldo wrote:
Stravo wrote:Keep in mind in regard to the Klingon Rommie sameness that the BOP in ST:III was originally an upgraded Romulan War Bird and that the Romulans were going to be the villains, then it evolved to Kruge stealing a Romulan ship to finally Kruge simply being the commander and none of the writers changing the fact that it was a Bird of Prey.

So in typical Trek fashion, they take a writing blunder and run with it. The ship designers for TNG had no idea so the Klingon and Romulan ships tend to have the same look. In TMP and TWOK the Klingon ships are obviously Klingon and different from warbirds. It was the fuckup in ST:III that started this mess.
Well, in Enterprise the Klingons now have warbirds.

So are the Klings and Roms perpetual enemies or bosom buddies since stellar boyhood?

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-09-10 02:05pm

JodoForce wrote: So are the Klings and Roms perpetual enemies or bosom buddies since stellar boyhood?

Those Klingon "Warbirds" were mentioned in the first episode of ENT. I cringed at the time.

It might not be all bad, though. Perhaps Warbirds are the Vulcan description for heavy enemy warships, and BoPs are the lighter, dinkier craft.

Starfleet certainly adopted the Vulcan's nomenclature for habitable planets (Class "M," from the original Vulcan Minshara I think). Perhaps they did the same for alien warships?

The Vulcan turd that mentioned Warbirds might also have simply been confused. Or maybe warbird/BoP could be used synonymously in that time.

Like many other details in ENT, taken alone it's not the end of the world, but when it happens time after fucking time, it breaks the camel's back.

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2003-09-10 02:59pm

well, the first thought that comes to mind is, since the Vulcans and Romulans are related, maybe the Vulcan called it by the name they used to have for their own warships.

Since Vulcans supposedly had been a peaceful race for millenia, though, I'm not sure if "Warbird" would be able to convey enough contempt for violence and warfare.

OTOH... they've gone out of their way to paint the Vulcans as being heavy-handed and stuck-up prigs, and the one Vulcan starship IIRC had weapons on it superior to ENT's weapons, which clashes with the TOS Intrepid (IIRC, a Constitution class ship crewed completely by Vulcans but completely unarmed). But hey, why stick with TOS continuity if you're B&B?

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-09-10 03:15pm

greenmm wrote:well, the first thought that comes to mind is, since the Vulcans and Romulans are related, maybe the Vulcan called it by the name they used to have for their own warships.

Exactly my thought.

OTOH... they've gone out of their way to paint the Vulcans as being heavy-handed and stuck-up prigs, and the one Vulcan starship IIRC had weapons on it superior to ENT's weapons, which clashes with the TOS Intrepid (IIRC, a Constitution class ship crewed completely by Vulcans but completely unarmed). But hey, why stick with TOS continuity if you're B&B?

Didn't Buttplug or Bobbin one come out and say they weren't going to make an effort in preserving continuity? I've seen that quoted somewhere.

They're in the camp that thinks TOS sucks because of pastel colors and Kirk's boots

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-09-10 08:15pm

Re: Shinzon's hair, won't chronic malnutrition make your hair fall out?

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-09-11 07:55pm

beyond hope wrote:Re: Shinzon's hair, won't chronic malnutrition make your hair fall out?

Still wouldn't explain why Picard saw his younger self bald in the mirror like Embracer Of Darkness mentioned.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2003-09-12 04:46am

Oh jeez, are you aware of the fact that hair usually grows back if you shave it?

I've been bald once or twice, yet now I have hair. Mysterious, isn't it?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-12 09:53am

Oberleutnant wrote:Oh jeez, are you aware of the fact that hair usually grows back if you shave it?

I've been bald once or twice, yet now I have hair. Mysterious, isn't it?

To Trek writers apparently this was.

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2003-09-12 02:49pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Oberleutnant wrote:Oh jeez, are you aware of the fact that hair usually grows back if you shave it?

I've been bald once or twice, yet now I have hair. Mysterious, isn't it?
To Trek writers apparently this was.

Especially since we know he wasn't bald as a young officer (from the TNG episode where Q gave him a chance to change his past by going back to the bar fight where he'd lost his original heart and had it replaced with an artificial one)...

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-09-12 05:28pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:I wonder if the movie would've been better if they'd combined the Shinzon and B-4 plots into one and make Star Trek X: The Wrath of Lore...

That would require explaining how Lore went from being an assortment of disassembled bits in some Federation lab to a credible threat, and that would require actual thought from the writers. It's still a good idea, though; especially if you wanted to emulate the feel of TWOK.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2003-09-12 06:51pm

greenmm wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Oberleutnant wrote:Oh jeez, are you aware of the fact that hair usually grows back if you shave it?

I've been bald once or twice, yet now I have hair. Mysterious, isn't it?
To Trek writers apparently this was.
Especially since we know he wasn't bald as a young officer (from the TNG episode where Q gave him a chance to change his past by going back to the bar fight where he'd lost his original heart and had it replaced with an artificial one)...

Yes, I know that episode ("Tapestry"), and the fact that Ensign Picard, fresh out from the Academy, had hair is certainly not a continuity problem.

First of all, we have no idea when that picture of young Picard in Nemesis was supposed to have been taken. Before or after his graduation? Actually it doesn't matter at all, so let's just presume it was taken while he was still in the Academy.

On his first year in the Academy, Picard decides to shave off his hair. Now he's bald and someone takes a photo of him at that time. Few years later at the time of his graduation, he has changed his style and has allowed his hair to grow back.

As what happens to his hair after this . . . well, we have no idea. Perhaps the first signs of hair loss came to Picard while he was still in his twenties, so he decided to shave it all off because women after all think bald is sexy.

So ends our story. Do you understand now why the photo of younger Picard in "Nemesis" isn't a continuity glitch?

Instead of worrying about his hair - or lack of - what about other more serious flaws in the movie?