StarDestroyer.Net BBS

El Moose Monstero wrote:Ace, what sort of PSU name is a good brand name?

Antec, Thermaltake, HEC, give us a few options you have. I don't remember them all off hand, sorry.
Anandtech has their top three here. The first one is perfectly adequete for your needs, the Seasonic S12II.

Certainly I'm contemplating a new graphics card already, as I've already experienced problems with it and am currently having to underclock it to stop it crashing games. Will probably look at the AMD3850 as the nVidia problem seems to be related to all high end nvidia cards.

Thats odd and haven't heard about it, the AMD 3850 is cool and mostly quiet, so that also works for a media center rig(other members should sign off on this).

Death,
The hard drive is a place holder really, at the time, a 500 was out of the price range on what was recommended to me initially. The Q6600 was recommended for longevity rather than necessarily performance.

If you use internal drives, and want something reliable, I'd actually reccomend using two drives, but thats dependent on budget. The Q6600 is more then enough for any current need, but in a pinch, going down to dual core should also work. However with prices being what they are, go right ahead.

Right now, I have two ideas for overhauling my computer. The first is designed to be upgraded at a later date with an additional GPU, so it has a more expensive motherboard and PSU. The second one has only one GPU in mind, which makes it around $120 cheaper.

Since this is the first time I have tried doing something like this, I need suggestions. Will the components work together? Do you recommend components other than the ones I selected? Is it worth it to choose Build 1 over the less expensive Build 2?

Build 1:

Motherboard: $120
ASUS M2R32-MVP AM2 AMD 580X CrossFire ATX AMD Motherboard

Processor: $190
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor

Video Card: $215
Radeon HD 3870

Power Supply: $110
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX ATX12V / EPS12V 750W Power Supply

RAM: $75
4GB 800MHZ DDR2 SDRAM
pt. 1 ($32)
pt. 2 ($43)

Total Cost: $710 plus shipping

Build 2:
The same as Build 1, but with

Motherboard: $75
GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard

Power Supply: $35
COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power RP-650-PCAR ATX 650W Power Supply

Total Cost: $590 plus shipping

As far as speed goes, Intel is King. They're even delaying introducing their newer processors because AMD is so far behind. Buying a single card with the intention to upgrade to two later is usually foolish. By the time you get the second card, you could get the next gen card for about the same price, usually.

I will go with Build 2 then, and look into Intel processors.

What do you think of the

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz Dual-Core Processor

vs my previous choice, the

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor

Both are $190. Can I get a better Intel processor in this price range?

To a rough approximation, the Core 2 will spank the the A64. The next best Intel processor is either the Q6600 or the E6850. Neither are really in the same price range.

I'll go with the Intel E6750 then.

That's not quite accurate, Beowulf. The processors will perform about the same, given the difference in MHz. Advantages of the Intel chips are lower power use and higher overclockability. Advantage to the AMD chips is cheaper motherboards.

There's also the Phenom 9500 to consider. At 2.2 GHz, it will need to be OC'd at least a few hundred MHz for good performance, but quad-core for $200 is hard to argue with, and it runs extremely cool and quiet for a quad core.

Intel delayed their chips because of manufacturing difficulties. The stated reason is marketing bullshit.

Well, I finally broke down and used my bonus to get a 512mb slightly overclocked GeForce 880GT. It's scheduled to arrive Tuesday.

Well, here's my current system:

Case: ANTEC Nine Hundred Ultimate Gamer Case

Power Supply: OCZ 600W StealthXStream Power Supply w/ Quad +12V

Motherboard: GIGABYTE G1975X Motherboard i975X

Harddrive: Seagate 320GB Barracuda 7200.10 SATA II w/ NCQ, 16MB Cache

CPU: Intel Pentium D 950 3.4GHz 4MB processor

Memory: OCZ 4GB PC2-6400 EL Platinum XTC Edition Dual Channel DDR2

Video: eVGA e-GeForce 8800 GTX 768MB PCI-E w/ Dual DVI, HDTV-Out



And here are the components I intent to upgrade with:

Power Supply: Antec TruePower Quattro 1000W Power Supply

Motherboard: eVGA nForce 780i SLI w/ DualDDR2 1200, 7.1 Audio, Dual GB Lan, 1394, PCI-E 2.0,

3-Way SLI

Harddrive (x2): Hitachi 750GB Deskstar 7K1000 SATA II w/ 32MB Cache

CPU Fan: Zalman CNPS9700 NT Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler for Socket 775, AM2 / 754 / 939 / 940

Memory: OCZ 4GB PC2-9200 FlexXLC Edition Dual Channel DDR2

Video Card (SLI config): eVGA e-GeForce 8800 GTX 768MB PCI-E w/ Dual DVI, HDTV-Out



I'm hoping to have the funds to buy all these components within the next month, two at most, and it should cost me less than $2300 Canadian. Personally, I think it'll be an awesome monster system, although I'm sure there's a couple of people here who can tell me exactly what they don't like about it.

I don't think you need a new PSU, not even for GTX SLI. 600 Watts from a quality unit like that OCZ is more than enough. And really, if it's going to take a couple months, it will probably be a lot better to get the next generation card than have to upgrade motherboards to go SLI. If history is any guide, 1 of the new stuff will be better than 2 of the old. And upgrading to faster RAM is a complete waste of money IMO. There's hardly any noticeable performance difference between bleeding edge RAM and ancient stuff, so there certainly won't be a noticeable difference between two speeds of DDR2.

I agree on the PSU. No need for a new one. I much prefer the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme to the Zalman you have listed. It's quieter (potentially), and performs better. The RAM will make no difference unless you overclock. I't pretty pointless to do so with that CPU. Get a Q6600, then think about it. You could also wait until the 9800GX2s come out for the GPU upgrade.

Beowulf wrote:I agree on the PSU. No need for a new one.

With two heavy duty GPUs I figured a PSU upgrade would've been called for...

I much prefer the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme to the Zalman you have listed. It's quieter (potentially), and performs better. The RAM will make no difference unless you overclock. I't pretty pointless to do so with that CPU.

You mean my current CPU? Is there a CPU/RAM issue I'm not aware of?

Get a Q6600, then think about it.

I'm going to look up that, because I think the motherboard I want only supports dual core, not quad.

You could also wait until the 9800GX2s come out for the GPU upgrade.

Yeah, I'm seriously considering just holding off on the additional card and just buying two of the 9800GX2's.

Bubble Boy wrote:

Beowulf wrote:I agree on the PSU. No need for a new one.

With two heavy duty GPUs I figured a PSU upgrade would've been called for...

With a good power supply, you computer should be just fine sucking 500 some Watts from the PSU. If you get the 9800GX2s, then you'd probably have to upgrade. 1 kW PSUs still aren't remotely close to necessary, even for massive systems.

I much prefer the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme to the Zalman you have listed. It's quieter (potentially), and performs better. The RAM will make no difference unless you overclock. I't pretty pointless to do so with that CPU.

You mean my current CPU? Is there a CPU/RAM issue I'm not aware of?

Faster speed RAM doesn't help unless it's actually running faster. The only real use of that is overclocking the CPU. That CPU is running pretty close to the limit as it is.

Get a Q6600, then think about it.

I'm going to look up that, because I think the motherboard I want only supports dual core, not quad.

It supports quad-core. Newegg link

Beowulf wrote:With a good power supply, you computer should be just fine sucking 500 some Watts from the PSU. If you get the 9800GX2s, then you'd probably have to upgrade. 1 kW PSUs still aren't remotely close to necessary, even for massive systems.

Well, given how soon the new nvidia 9800GX2's are coming out, it's likely I'll be trying to get those, so a more powerful PSU sounds in order given your input. In which case may as well get a really powerful one to cover my ass for the future...I don't want to spend money like this all the time for my computer.

Faster speed RAM doesn't help unless it's actually running faster. The only real use of that is overclocking the CPU. That CPU is running pretty close to the limit as it is.

Do you mind clarifying here? My current CPU isn't overclocked, so are you saying it's not making the best use of my RAM? (or you could link me to some useful info I could read up on, never hurts to be informed)

It supports quad-core. Newegg link

Thanks for the link, Beowulf. I don't think I'll need to upgrade my CPU from what I can tell though, even with all the other upgrades...

Well, I decided on getting a new CPU as well, and after some checking I decided on the Intel Core™2 Quad Processor Q6600 2.4GHz w/ 2x4MB Cache. Same as you recommended Beowulf, thanks. (It certainly looks like the best bang for your buck from what I looked up)

And I'm pretty much decided to hold off on getting another 8800 GTX and wait for the 9800GX2's. I'll buy two of the them instead, and then resell my GTX which is still brand new (only bought it a couple of weeks ago).

What applications are you running that would see greater benefit from a quad-core than from a higher-clocked dual-core processor?

Uraniun235 wrote:What applications are you running that would see greater benefit from a quad-core than from a higher-clocked dual-core processor?

Well, I'm runnng a gaming system obviously, and from what I've been checking the Quad Core should be noticeably more powerful and faster than the Duo Core. Faster FSB at 1066Mhz as opposed to 800 Mhz, double the CPU cache, and the total clock speed has an increase of almost 3 Ghz.

So unless I'm missing something...

Edit: Forgot to add that the game Crysis is the benchmark by which I'm hoping to see a significant performance boost, along with future game releases using the same engine and/or have similiar demands.

I've got an option to buy a 500 Gb Samsung HD, HD501LJ, new in box but bought in Nov 07, for £10 less than the cheapest price around (Amazon, with free delivery). Is it worth while? I was thinking about a larger harddrive at some point, but I don't know whether the product is good enough to make a 10 pound discount worth while and justifying spending now when I was ideally not looking to spend more on it for a few months.

link

Is there any reason to be wary of buying second hand HDs, even ones that claim to be new in box?

Bubble Boy wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:What applications are you running that would see greater benefit from a quad-core than from a higher-clocked dual-core processor?

Well, I'm runnng a gaming system obviously, and from what I've been checking the Quad Core should be noticeably more powerful and faster than the Duo Core. Faster FSB at 1066Mhz as opposed to 800 Mhz, double the CPU cache, and the total clock speed has an increase of almost 3 Ghz.

So unless I'm missing something...

Edit: Forgot to add that the game Crysis is the benchmark by which I'm hoping to see a significant performance boost, along with future game releases using the same engine and/or have similiar demands.

I don't think you understand how CPUs work. Doubling the number of processor cores does not usually mean the computer will have double the performance in a given application, and will not give you "an increase of almost 3 GHz".

Most games and programs can only utilize one core at a time. Some, and increasingly more in the future, will utilize dual-core CPUs, but effective quad-core utilization is still far enough into the future that it doesn't make sense for most people to buy a quad-core processor for gaming at this time.

El Moose Monstero wrote:I've got an option to buy a 500 Gb Samsung HD, HD501LJ, new in box but bought in Nov 07, for £10 less than the cheapest price around (Amazon, with free delivery). Is it worth while? I was thinking about a larger harddrive at some point, but I don't know whether the product is good enough to make a 10 pound discount worth while and justifying spending now when I was ideally not looking to spend more on it for a few months.

link

Is there any reason to be wary of buying second hand HDs, even ones that claim to be new in box?

Last I checked 500GB was the ideal price point, so if you can get one for even less than usual, it's probably a pretty good deal.

As to being wary, no moreso than usual when it comes to hard drives.

So my current system failed to survive my relocation, and I'm stuck using my Thinkpad as my primary computer. Since none of my present components can be reused in building a new computer (isn't the march of technological progress wonderful?) I shall have to build myself a new one from scratch. I'm thinking of the following for a budget system build with some meat on it:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 2.33GHz LGA 775 65W Processor

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L ATX Intel Motherboard

This will have 2 GB of RAM.

XFX GeForce 8600GT PVT84JUSD4 Video Card

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N

This will live in a new case with a Corsair 550 Watt power supply. I know it probably isn't a cutting-edge gaming system . . . but the most demanding game it'll face is Star Wars: Battlefront, and will otherwise be used for modest 3D rendering, art, and basic computer tasks.

How is does this rate for a budget build? Anything I should change or think about before I drop the requisite pile of cash on Newegg?

That's a fine system.

It's good, but as long as you're spending the money on a good system, you might as well throw in a good video card to go with it. A 3850 is really not that much more than an 8600 GTS, and the performance difference is night and day.

Well, I just upgraded from an inexpensive ATA hard drive - a Western Digital 120GB 7200RPM - to something a little faster, a Western Digital 'Raptor' SATA/150 150GB 10,000 RPM. I used Norton Ghost 2003 to clone my system drive onto this new one, then disconnected the old drive so when I rebooted the computer wouldn't be confused about which drive was C:, and go try to fix itself. Haven't had any problems so far, seems a little bit faster boot time, I'll let you know what happens.

I wish hard drive technology would improve some, I'm not replacing my computer until I can be sure I'd get rid of the performance bottleneck that is the modern hard drive. 120 MB/s burst is no way to go through life, son.

I need a second opinion on this rig for a friend:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
GIGABYTE GA-EP35C-DS3R
G.Skill DDR2 2048MB (1024MBx2) 800Mhz CL 4-4-3-5 HK
Leadtek WinFast PX8800GT GTB 512MB PCIe
Seagate ST350032AS 500GB SATA2

Corsair CMPSU-520HXEU 520W
Enermax Chakra ECA3052 BLUE
SUNBEAM TUNIQ BLUE LED FAN

ASUS DRW-2014L1T X20 DVD


1) Is the core setup of CPU/Mobo/RAM/GPU balanced? Preferabbly with an eye towards atleast a moderate OC?
2) Is the Case and PSU any good?