StarDestroyer.Net BBS

PeZook wrote:And Fingolfin, the thing isn't supposed to fire while in the air

That should be the next project done by 'Insane Idea's Incorporated'

edit: This reminds me, my own group of mad scientists have been really underused thus far...

PeZook wrote:First of all, you will need a Chinook-styled helicopter to feasibly mount a howitzer, an autoloader and proper chassis on it. A UH-60 can carry a 155mm howitzer in a sling, but its nowhere near tought enough to actually fire it, during transport or otherwise.

And Fingolfin, the thing isn't supposed to fire while in the air

It's an attempt to enhance mobility of artillery beyond sling-carried guns.

Then I'm going to say that it might not be worth having such a helicopter. If you are going to mount a howitzer on a helicopter, you have to do many things to set up the helicopter for the firing exercise. The standard Helicopter landing wheels won't take the recoil, which means you have to set up one heck of an elaborate recoil system to ensure the landing gear can take the recoil. Otherwise, your landing gear will collapse from the sheer shock. What does that leave us? Using either a reduced gun, or take up considerable volume inside the helicopter, while adding significant weight, for the recoil system. Either way, you don't gain much out of this.

The other alternative is to mount the guns outside the copter and there was a study done on this. I didn't finish reading the whole 50-100 pages worth of study which Shep posted up in the HAB so I have no idea why it might not be implemented. For that to work, you probably have to ditch the autoloader, since that study was done on the possibility of mounting either 105mm or 155mm M777. I might add also that the improvements in mobility might not be much since you still have to spend time configuring the howitzer to fight, as the howitzer has no APU.

Karmic Knight wrote:

PeZook wrote:And Fingolfin, the thing isn't supposed to fire while in the air

That should be the next project done by 'Insane Idea's Incorporated'

edit: This reminds me, my own group of mad scientists have been really underused thus far...

How is that insane? The AC-130 already fires a 105mm autocannon, and its high elevation grants it several advantages.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:How is that insane? The AC-130 already fires a 105mm autocannon, and its high elevation grants it several advantages.

I really don't know.

Later today, I will make a story post about the gun's evaluation by the Royal PeZookian Army, and its many potential problems

Siege, the guy kinda has a point about San Dorado, though. I mean...it's no great secret the city has an excessive crime rate

Siege, did you miss the tender I opened for the exhibition center in Arabiapolis?

PeZook wrote:Siege, the guy kinda has a point about San Dorado, though. I mean...it's no great secret the city has an excessive crime rate

I know . And it's about to get worse, too...

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Siege, did you miss the tender I opened for the exhibition center in Arabiapolis?

Crap, yes I did. Give me a while, I'm going to bid on it.

Result: Caymans are gonna hold an election but since the terrorists killed the only person who can grant diplomatic immunity any election judges from other countries travel at their own risk and any new additions to embassy staffs are likewise not covered unless previously designated and now returning.

Actually...not.

The principle of continuity means that obligations of a nation-state do not cease with the particular government which signed them: since conventions give diplomatic immunity to all members of the embassy staff, and do not require that new members of staff be approved by the receiving nation (unlike heads of the mission, ie. ambassadors, ministers and charge d'affairs), this means anybody can move staff members in or out of the country and they are all covered under diplomatic immunity. The only requirement is that the ministry (not minister) of foreign affairs be notified of their arrival and/or departure.

Nyah!

BTW.. what year is it?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:BTW.. what year is it?

Unless I'm mistaken it's 2012.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

PeZook wrote:First of all, you will need a Chinook-styled helicopter to feasibly mount a howitzer, an autoloader and proper chassis on it. A UH-60 can carry a 155mm howitzer in a sling, but its nowhere near tought enough to actually fire it, during transport or otherwise.

And Fingolfin, the thing isn't supposed to fire while in the air

It's an attempt to enhance mobility of artillery beyond sling-carried guns.

Then I'm going to say that it might not be worth having such a helicopter. If you are going to mount a howitzer on a helicopter, you have to do many things to set up the helicopter for the firing exercise. The standard Helicopter landing wheels won't take the recoil, which means you have to set up one heck of an elaborate recoil system to ensure the landing gear can take the recoil. Otherwise, your landing gear will collapse from the sheer shock. What does that leave us? Using either a reduced gun, or take up considerable volume inside the helicopter, while adding significant weight, for the recoil system. Either way, you don't gain much out of this.

If you read my description, you would know that the Archer now mounts a 105mm on a synchrocopter platform that carries up to 30 shells at a cruising speed of 150km/h to a mission radius of 400km, and provides some cover against enemy fire to the crew of two. The landing gear is like a very heavy skid with shock absorbers. Altogether the unit price is about $15 million. How's that sound?

The other alternative is to mount the guns outside the copter and there was a study done on this. I didn't finish reading the whole 50-100 pages worth of study which Shep posted up in the HAB so I have no idea why it might not be implemented. For that to work, you probably have to ditch the autoloader, since that study was done on the possibility of mounting either 105mm or 155mm M777. I might add also that the improvements in mobility might not be much since you still have to spend time configuring the howitzer to fight, as the howitzer has no APU.

Ah, see I thought that was an implementation of the firing-while-airborne concept. The Longbow program, slated to be released next year, will mount a 120mm howitzer and a defensive machine gun (16mm).

Ryan Thunder wrote:If you read my description, you would know that the Archer now mounts a 105mm on a synchrocopter platform that carries up to 30 shells at a cruising speed of 150km/h to a mission radius of 400km, and provides some cover against enemy fire to the crew of two. The landing gear is like a very heavy skid with shock absorbers. Altogether the unit price is about $15 million. How's that sound?

Probably at a cost to speed and fuel range and volume. 30 shells.. you better be using a Chinook and larger. I think the unit price will be slightly more. The helicopter isn't that cheap either.

Ah, see I thought that was an implementation of the firing-while-airborne concept. The Longbow program, slated to be released next year, will mount a 120mm howitzer and a defensive machine gun (16mm).

Eh? Those numbers for the guns is simply out of whack. No one uses a 120mm howitzer, nor a 16mm machine gun.

All of the dead cabinent ministers, at least, would've been replaced by now by appointees, even if acting ones like retired department secretaries or deputy/assistant secretaries have to be put into place. A government will not just shut down operations. Nor would it suddenly be shed of obligations to international law when it comes to foreign nationals.

Frankly a lot of people might interpret this as Wilkonia attempting to scare international election monitors into staying away to prevent any "unfavorable" results in the coming election.,

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:If you read my description, you would know that the Archer now mounts a 105mm on a synchrocopter platform that carries up to 30 shells at a cruising speed of 150km/h to a mission radius of 400km, and provides some cover against enemy fire to the crew of two. The landing gear is like a very heavy skid with shock absorbers. Altogether the unit price is about $15 million. How's that sound?

Probably at a cost to speed and fuel range and volume. 30 shells.. you better be using a Chinook and larger. I think the unit price will be slightly more. The helicopter isn't that cheap either.

Shite... I didn't realize how heavy those shells were. The M107 on its own is more than 40 kg.
Though it is a 155mm shell.

Would the 105mm shells weigh around 30 kg or so? Sure, that's still 900 kg, but at least its less than a tonne.

Uh... yeah, that Chinook idea is sounding rather more reasonable right about now...

Ah, see I thought that was an implementation of the firing-while-airborne concept. The Longbow program, slated to be released next year, will mount a 120mm howitzer and a defensive machine gun (16mm).

Eh? Those numbers for the guns is simply out of whack. No one uses a 120mm howitzer, nor a 16mm machine gun.

Sorry, I meant 122mm. The 16mm machine gun is Miratian, (exactly double the calibre of Miratian assault rifles) and the gun mount would be relatively easy to fit a different weapon to. I'm not planning on making it remote-controlled, at any rate.

PeZook wrote:Actually...not.

The principle of continuity means that obligations of a nation-state do not cease with the particular government which signed them: since conventions give diplomatic immunity to all members of the embassy staff, and do not require that new members of staff be approved by the receiving nation (unlike heads of the mission, ie. ambassadors, ministers and charge d'affairs), this means anybody can move staff members in or out of the country and they are all covered under diplomatic immunity. The only requirement is that the ministry (not minister) of foreign affairs be notified of their arrival and/or departure.

Nyah!

Yet those obligations, often as not, provide a cap on the size of said delegations. In other words it is not a blanket agreement for as many personnel as one wishes to bring over. My point, and it may not be perfectly clear, is that you can't suddenly flood the county with outsiders without potentially running afoul of the authorities.

Steve wrote:All of the dead cabinent ministers, at least, would've been replaced by now by appointees, even if acting ones like retired department secretaries or deputy/assistant secretaries have to be put into place. A government will not just shut down operations. Nor would it suddenly be shed of obligations to international law when it comes to foreign nationals.

Frankly a lot of people might interpret this as Wilkonia attempting to scare international election monitors into staying away to prevent any "unfavorable" results in the coming election.,

They would have been replaced only if there was someone with the authority to appoint replacements and since that is contained within the executive and not legislative branch. The folks serving at the deputy level would have to sort out seniority and a host of other issues and even then whoever steps into the role wouldn't have the full power of the minster as they are lacking the authority of the post.

As to the second part folks probably will interpret it that way... then again the last time the island had an election there were dozen of murders and nobody knows whether it was locals criminals, Wilkonia, or the IRT, or somebody else who manuvered the rash actions.

On a completely out there note I'll stake out that Wilkonia is right now trying only to make sure that someone anti-Wilkonia doesn't rise to the top. I coudln't care less if a pro-IRT faction takes over since they will quickly get swallowed up by the huge commercial trade between th IRT and Wilkonia that flows through the islands. With many trade items nominally restricted from direct purchase in the IRT the Wilkonian ogvernment has spent the better part of the last 30 years turnign a blind eye towards traders who go to the Caymans and return with contracts for items that could only have been produced in the IRT.

They would have been replaced only if there was someone with the authority to appoint replacements and since that is contained within the executive and not legislative branch. The folks serving at the deputy level would have to sort out seniority and a host of other issues and even then whoever steps into the role wouldn't have the full power of the minster as they are lacking the authority of the post.

You mean someone like President Truong, who was stated as alive and was considered an outgoing President until the death of the President-elect led to him remaining in office under emergency plans? Someone who would have power to appoint acting replacements to all slain Cabinent ministers?

And depending on your POV the Popular Front could be considered anti-Wilkonian, in that they want to alter the social system of the Caymans, destroy the political and economic influence of the oligarchs, improve the power of Organized Labor, and eliminate Corruption. That doesn't mean they'd immediately start attacking Wilkonian interests in office - their leaders are pragmatic enough to work with Wilkonia if it's willing to deal with them and provide support for their initiatives - but the Caymanian Left has anti-Wilkonian and anti-Tonkinese elements.

I figured that the Wilkonians would support the Liberals, the major Center-Left party, as the Nationalists' legitimacy has been in decline due to the electoral fraud and the scandals. The only problem is if the Liberals can attract enough voters to run things on their own or if they're going to be made to work with the Popular Front.

Steve wrote:

They would have been replaced only if there was someone with the authority to appoint replacements and since that is contained within the executive and not legislative branch. The folks serving at the deputy level would have to sort out seniority and a host of other issues and even then whoever steps into the role wouldn't have the full power of the minster as they are lacking the authority of the post.

You mean someone like President Truong, who was stated as alive and was considered an outgoing President until the death of the President-elect led to him remaining in office under emergency plans? Someone who would have power to appoint acting replacements to all slain Cabinent ministers?

Dagnabit I missed that, I was lumping him in with the opponent who was gunned down on the list of the slain, my bad.

And depending on your POV the Popular Front could be considered anti-Wilkonian, in that they want to alter the social system of the Caymans, destroy the political and economic influence of the oligarchs, improve the power of Organized Labor, and eliminate Corruption. That doesn't mean they'd immediately start attacking Wilkonian interests in office - their leaders are pragmatic enough to work with Wilkonia if it's willing to deal with them and provide support for their initiatives - but the Caymanian Left has anti-Wilkonian and anti-Tonkinese elements.

I figured that the Wilkonians would support the Liberals, the major Center-Left party, as the Nationalists' legitimacy has been in decline due to the electoral fraud and the scandals. The only problem is if the Liberals can attract enough voters to run things on their own or if they're going to be made to work with the Popular Front.

Well I had a nice strategy but I missed the bit about Truong being alive so that will take some time for me to shift and yet keep everything in character since I'd rather not retcon my posts.

Part of the problem is that Stas never said precisely who Karic killed, just that it was a bunch of leaders and the party they were attending. I figured that the attack killed the President-elect, most of the Cabinent (including all the prominent ones), several leading legislature members, as well as party officials and oligarchs, thus gutting the Nationalists of the Caymans. The loss of so many leading Party members, and the resulting power vacuum, thus weakens the Nationalist Party proper just as the electoral fraud they'd committed was a scandal reaching epic proportions.

As a result they have little hope of prevailing in the new elections because the people who actually give the orders to the corrupt officials are dead or locked in internal fighting. The Liberals might have become a majority government under new elections if not for the fact that the Popular Front has aligned all of the divisions of the Left under a common banner of opposing oligarchy, corruption, and anti-labor laws and regulations.

The tricky thing is that the Left's economic policies, anti-oligarchy positions, and general ideology are overtly hostile to Tonkin and somewhat to Wilkonia, though the latter is reconcilable with the Popular Front, and that the Popular Front is gaining widespread popularity in the Caymans due to the recent scandals. Wilkonia can work with the, but I don't know if Tonkin can, and if both refuse to work with them and try to interfere with the election, it will turn world opinion against them and rob the Caymans of any "legitimacy" in the eyes of much of the rest of the world.

CmdrWilkens wrote:[
Yet those obligations, often as not, provide a cap on the size of said delegations. In other words it is not a blanket agreement for as many personnel as one wishes to bring over. My point, and it may not be perfectly clear, is that you can't suddenly flood the county with outsiders without potentially running afoul of the authorities.

There's no hard cap, actually: staff size needs to be either agreed upon in a separate agreement, or be "reasonable". Of course, there are no provision for automatic consequences for sending "non-reasonable" number of staffers, such as denying them diplomatic immunity. If the receiving country decides the embassy staff is too large, the most they can do according to conventions is declare some of them persona non grata, and write an angry letter, rather than arrest them for violating a curfew or something.

Unless we assume diplomatic conventions in this world are significantly different than ours.

Nyah again!

Who are these "Revolutionary Front" in Frequesque? Anyone worthwhile to throw bucks and weapons behind? No?

Stas Bush wrote:Who are these "Revolutionary Front" in Frequesque? Anyone worthwhile to throw bucks and weapons behind? No?

It's a bunch of utter bastards lead by an Aidid-style warlord, in what amounts to Frequesue's version of Congo, and they're on the verge of being wiped clear off the map. My guess would be that they're not worth your bother.

I see you also referred to the AFSR and how they're handling the outbreak of Shep's bionasty; do note that the FTO has been helping them deal with exactly that. I wouldn't put it past them to still come begging you for those yummy rrrroubles though .

New Bulletin out, Soyuz 2 will fly, Lucrelance II enters B-series prototype testing stage.

PeZook wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote:[
Yet those obligations, often as not, provide a cap on the size of said delegations. In other words it is not a blanket agreement for as many personnel as one wishes to bring over. My point, and it may not be perfectly clear, is that you can't suddenly flood the county with outsiders without potentially running afoul of the authorities.

There's no hard cap, actually: staff size needs to be either agreed upon in a separate agreement, or be "reasonable". Of course, there are no provision for automatic consequences for sending "non-reasonable" number of staffers, such as denying them diplomatic immunity. If the receiving country decides the embassy staff is too large, the most they can do according to conventions is declare some of them persona non grata, and write an angry letter, rather than arrest them for violating a curfew or something.

Unless we assume diplomatic conventions in this world are significantly different than ours.

Nyah again!

I table a movement to change them if they aren't;
HOST COUNTRY: The nation where the embassy territory is set aside.
EMBASSY COUNTRY: The nation for which the embassy territory is set aside.
EMBASSY GROUNDS: Embassy grounds are the surface area to a depth of five (10) metres that has been designated by the host country for the embassy country to build an embassy upon, unless otherwise agreed upon by the embassy and host nations.
1. Embassies are limited to 10 personnel who are granted diplomatic immunity (that should cover whatever you need.)
1.1 Personnel above this limit are subject to the laws of the host nation unless they are on embassy soil, where they become subject to whatever laws the embassy nation sees fit.
1.2 Personnel found in violation of the laws of the host nation may be deported.
1.1.1 They cannot be detained for longer than the time it takes to get them to the nearest airport.
2. Embassy grounds are treated as though they are part of the territory of the embassy nation, but violating whatever airspace or underspace they may have is not considered to be illegal or an act of war in any sense.

Ryan Thunder wrote:Uh... yeah, that Chinook idea is sounding rather more reasonable right about now...

Just a comment: the new price is something like 25 million, and mounts a 155mm howitzer as well as a pair of door guns (whatever sort of pintle-mounted machine gun you might want), increasing the crew to four.