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Broomstick wrote:I have the "coffee shop" planned out, but I'm at a loss for what other "shops" might be desirable around this "town square". Any ideas?

Maybe one or several should be the "shops" where you pick up toiletries and personal supplies as needed? Rather than having individuals go to the Big Warehouse area every time they need something there can be a stock of stuff around the "town square" that is supplied at long intervals (every 2-3 months, perhaps).

A "flea market" area where people can barter items?

Something else?

My advice is don't think of specific shops, because invariably "we" would fill that in. Simply come up with a 'shop friendly' setting. A set up that a merchant would find useful. More likely then not, shops would rotate, one week there would be one group of shops, and it would change from week to week depending on who is busy, who is working, and who has things to sell. Some shops might be permanent, like a "government supply" shop for things hard to come by. But there should be plenty of flexibility. After all you don't want to put a lot of effort designing a shop that goes belly up three months into our stay.

As for Bars, well, as anyone who plays Dwarf Fortress knows, a strong drink is vital to getting through the day!

OK, bottom level of the "town square" - the coffee shop is built in, but the rest of the "retail space" is undefined and is presumed to be something that can be reconfigured as needed.




The stairwell has a glass wall - this is to cut down on the "dark creepy stairwell" effect and to encourage people to use the stairs. The stairwell/elevator unit is also where it connects to the rest of the complex, although access points could be made at other locations as well.

Yeah, I'd imagine for shops each square would have a 'drug store' for sundries, miscellaneous goods, etc. You could also (as has been said) allow people to sign up to run shops for a while. I might get adventurous and start making rock candy for a few weeks, someone else might start knitting hats. You just dont know.

Lol, this thread is pretty cool and I give props to Broomstick for the design. That said, world class catastrophe and we're worried about shops in the bunker?

How about machine shops so when the 10 years is up we can build, long term storage, garage, hydroponics, etc... What about in 5 years when population is booming from births? I see a lot of university style housing and a 'study hall', what we're studying is beyond me, but that's hardly going to keep people busy for a decade.

One thing at a time. Social engineering is going to be really important: machine shops and warehouses etc. are easy to design. Creating a confined living space where people don't go insane is not.

Study halls are VERY important, because we have a thousand mooks with little skills relevant to postapocalyptic survival. Training them up so that they can be useful for more than fighting technobarbarians is pretty crucial.

So is designing a community that won't tear itsef apart from internal tensions.

Which brings me to another idea: government. That one needs to be carefully thought out.

I think I've been saying that since page 4.

Knife wrote:Lol, this thread is pretty cool and I give props to Broomstick for the design. That said, world class catastrophe and we're worried about shops in the bunker?

I'm also worried about the bathrooms. You know, it's little things that make a big difference. Of course, they aren't really shops in the usual sense, but they are areas set up for commerce of a sort. People will barter and trade and play poker and knit socks and so forth. Best to give them a place in which to do it. Also, such areas could be used for other projects, say, sewing tents for when it's safe to go outside again.

How about machine shops so when the 10 years is up we can build, long term storage, garage, hydroponics, etc...

Coming, coming... the "town square" area already does have hydroponics - not the main units but supplemental ones. The main hydroponics will be going in around the exercise area.

Assuming we're still looking at a salt mine, long term storage are the mining tunnels. Items will need to be sealed against that environment, but lots of stuff should keep just fine there and so far the mines we've looked at have plenty of space. Garage, work rooms, etc. will be coming along in a bit.

What about in 5 years when population is booming from births? I see a lot of university style housing and a 'study hall', what we're studying is beyond me, but that's hardly going to keep people busy for a decade.

If we start with a population of 200-250 per Bunker (meaning 4-5 of these things) but build them to hold 300-350 people there will be room for the growing population.

As for what we're studying - cross training in functions necessary to keep the place running, post-shelter skills, basic literacy and numeracy for any kids in the Bunker, plus anything else - no reason, if time and resources permit, we can't have classes in almost any subject from learning languages to basket weaving.

PeZook wrote:Which brings me to another idea: government. That one needs to be carefully thought out.

I'm busy with the living quarters, someone else will have to figure that one out. But the communities would be small enough for direct democracy in many areas, and some socialist/communist things as well

Broomstick wrote: I'm also worried about the bathrooms. You know, it's little things that make a big difference. Of course, they aren't really shops in the usual sense, but they are areas set up for commerce of a sort. People will barter and trade and play poker and knit socks and so forth. Best to give them a place in which to do it. Also, such areas could be used for other projects, say, sewing tents for when it's safe to go outside again.

The key word is here is this, I think: How to maintain the illusion of normalcy under totally abnormal conditions?

Having a coffee shop in an underground postapocalyptic bunker may seem absurd at first glance, but it's something people are familiar with, something that they have grown up with and know how to behave around.

We've all lived all our lives in a certain way, and the less we have to change, the better. Obviously there will be significant changes, but every little thing helps: things like having normal toilets and hot meals etc.

It's all very important ; NASA studies on long-term space missions are very much concerned with those very problems - and that's astronauts on mission of 2-5 years, not a thousand random mook after an apocalypse!

Broomstick wrote: I'm busy with the living quarters, someone else will have to figure that one out. But the communities would be small enough for direct democracy in many areas, and some socialist/communist things as well

Direct democracy doesn't work very well for the sort of command-style economy we need to run. Somebody will have to distribute the resources we have and manage day-to-day affairs ; Voting could be allowed for stuff like internal organization of each block, but I don't think it would perform properly when it comes to stuff like energy allowances.

Yes, energy and large-scale resource allocation would have to be determined by the Peoples' Central Committee of the Post-Apocalyptic Bunker Directorate.

Some things will have to be dictated. For the rest - we should allow what freedom is possible within this scenario.

Just out of curiousity, can someone give me an idea of what the total square footage (or meters, I can work with either) of the place, how much of it you're planning on having something besides bare stone for a floor, and approximate percentages of the non-bare stone areas would be using what for flooring? I'd just like to see what the ball park for just materials is gonna be for the flooring install on this shit.

Nobody can do that. We still need to determin where exactly this bunker is going to be and even if we know this we still need to get floorplans of this location. I guess it´s not really easy to get such a floor plan, so we might have to make one up.

So how should we proceed in this matter? It´s impossible to create a good layout of such an underground town if you don´t have a layout of the place.

You planning on submitting a bid, Coffee?

I can provide square footage for each of the modules as we get them done, along with suggested floor coverings. I'll leave it to our expert floor guy to figure costs for the floor sub-structure that supports the carpet/tile/wood/whatever.

Maybe a resident geologist (certain alien captains for example ) could figure out what a salt mine would look like.

salm wrote:Maybe a resident geologist (certain alien captains for example ) could figure out what a salt mine would look like.

It looks like a big honking tube made of salt. What do you want to know? Salt mines usually have higher ceilings and bigger open spaces than coal mines. There's actually a cathedral in Romania carved entirely inside a salt mine.

Is it just one long tube or are there bigger cave segments and smaller ones, perhaps connected by tunnels? Are lakes common? What height and width do they have on average or is that heavily varying?

When googling "salt mine" you get a whole bunch of stuff. Intersting images would be the following for example:

Yeah, my mistake. The cathedral is in Poland. But there's a lot you can do with salt, given enough time:



Plus the air in a salt mine is going to be better than a coal mine. Drier, less chance of mildew. I recommend circulating our air system through a few empty salt chambers just to 'freshen' them.

Yer gonna need some level of humidity in the air as well if you don't want people with certain respiratory issues going spastic though. I'll let whoever wants to place HVAC contractor figure that shit out though.

Yeah, but what is the entire layout of a salt mine going to look like. Will it be mainly one large tunnel with one or two larger caves or will it be shorter tunnels connecting 10 or so larger caves? How likely is it to have lakes in a salt mine?

If i draw up a layout can you tell me if a mine will look aproximately like that drawing?

I'd prefer more room in the living quarters and more spartan bathrooms, I think. Sorry, making rooms isn't my specialty but here is my attempt...


I wanted to go for either more space or the illusion of more space. One room, but with the arch in the middle gives the illusion of two rooms. A drape or something could be strung up for even more of a feel for two rooms, and/or privacy. Each one is set up for a minimum of 2 people (couple) and can be modified for a small family to live in with cribs/small beds added.

I haven't made a decent chair yet, but the table can be up against the wall with 2 chairs or pulled out with 4 chairs. Inhabitants choice. A big wall locker/wardrobe for all the inhabitants belongings. A bench/couch not attached to the bed, but put there for my person likes. A desk and drawers set, TV like or computer like equipment can go here.

Note: Can't figure out how to make something that looks like a bed, so big square in the room is the bed. Queen sized for our comfort.


For numbers people, arc is 2.2 meters high, as is the room, I've got the walls dropped down so you can see. The dimensions of the whole room is 5x8 meters, so 40 sq meters per room.



I've arranged them 5 to a side, 10 in a block for a minimum of 20 people in a block with bathrooms on the end. I'd imagine a girls/boys arrangement with 3 toilets per room (6 total). So 30% of the inhabitants can be pooping at once. Not a bad ratio I think. Across is 3 showers per bathroom. Similar ratio with that.

I'm currently thinking of stacking two on top of each other and having one of each of these complexes on either side of a large hall. I like you're guys idea of a large hall to simulate 'outdoors' like for mental health. On the hall, I'm thinking of old school Roman Bastila type nooks on the side for multi-purpose rooms and a cat walk type feature on the second floor.

As far as tech, I'm still thinking about that. I would imagine the highest low-tech we can get. Meaning the highest tech to make the simplest and easiest to make/maintain and serve our goals.

Mr. Coffee wrote:Yer gonna need some level of humidity in the air as well if you don't want people with certain respiratory issues going spastic though. I'll let whoever wants to place HVAC contractor figure that shit out though.

Yeah, was thinking that. I was thinking a couple utility closets in conjunction with the bathrooms with HVAC along with water heaters etc...

Mr. Coffee wrote:Just out of curiousity, can someone give me an idea of what the total square footage (or meters, I can work with either) of the place...

I will do some studies a bit later. Hold on for a while so I can crank them out to you.

Will there be graphs, Shep? Because it ain't gonna be a real "Shep Study™" without graphs, homie.

HVAC 'room' at one end, and I'll put water works at the other side where the bathrooms are. I put random cubes and cylinders since I have no idea what contraptions for this particular need would look like.

Knife wrote:HVAC 'room' at one end, and I'll put water works at the other side where the bathrooms are. I put random cubes and cylinders since I have no idea what contraptions for this particular need would look like.

Well, remember that we'd probably be building this shit in a mine or caverns, to you can hide a lot of the big plumbing, ductwork, power and data lines, ect outside of the walls you've designed in the space between the mine/cave wall and the outer wall of the habitat space.

Hey, if we got our hands on one of them big fuck off mines that's got like a couple million square feet of floor area across a bunch of mine runs/galleries we're gonna have a fuckload of space for utility plant space and depending on what kind of power generation and water treatment capacity we got we could turn a lot of area into farming and gardening space. Give people something productive to do with their time and hopefully help make the place smell like less of a musty ass mine filled with large populations of nerds. Just sayin'...