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The Miratia-pirate documents are nothing but a false flag, designed to divert the FTO's attention from other activities....

Er... Siege and Ryan... why commenting in the wrong thread?

Ryan Thunder wrote:May I bomb it to Mars?

Short answer? No. First off, I have a full brigade of peace-keeping troops in Sabika who are working with a legitimate government to bring about stability in the place. Secondly, Sabika is a pretty important economic hotzone for San Dorado. If you bomb it, you get in our way, which would be really inconvenient, in a most unpleasant way. Let us handle this: you don't even have a navy to speak of: the rest of the FTO can handle this. We have carriers and stuff.

Fingolfin wrote:Er... Siege and Ryan... why commenting in the wrong thread?

Whoopsie?

SiegeTank wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:May I bomb it to Mars?

Short answer? No. First off, I have a full brigade of peace-keeping troops in Sabika who are working with a legitimate government to bring about stability in the place. Secondly, Sabika is a pretty important economic hotzone for San Dorado. If you bomb it, you get in our way, which would be really inconvenient, in a most unpleasant way. Let us handle this: you don't even have a navy to speak of: the rest of the FTO can handle this. We have carriers and stuff.

That's why I ask these sorts of questions.

Ryan Thunder wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote:

PeZook wrote:Of course, selling high technology specifically designed to overcome SNC and MESS air defences is not going to win you many friends, you know

Well that and developing the R&D as well as industrial base to actually develop said technologies would bankrupt most states that aren't Imperium sized...unless they spent 10-15 years on it.

Right, right, of course, as a general rule, you must always be able to squash me like a bug, even with your (hueg) numerical advantage removed. Sorry, I forgot.

dude I know you are being a bit sarcastic but I'm gonna respond serious anyway. nations in the real world don't rise to superpower status overnight. Look at china, they've been working towards being able to match either the Russian or American defense industries for close to 30 years and they still aren't really there...and that's with a huge industrial base to support them. What are the chances that say Turkey would develop the next generation super stealth bomber?

CmdrWilkens wrote: dude I know you are being a bit sarcastic but I'm gonna respond serious anyway. nations in the real world don't rise to superpower status overnight. Look at china, they've been working towards being able to match either the Russian or American defense industries for close to 30 years and they still aren't really there...and that's with a huge industrial base to support them. What are the chances that say Turkey would develop the next generation super stealth bomber?

I wouldn't be so sure. The technology is expensive, yes, but it's not like rocketry or shipbuilding where you need huge, extensive facilities, lots of prototypes for everything and hundreds of thousands of support workers: Miratia does have an advanced aerospace industry, and if you have that, then building stealth aircraft is mostly a matter of mathematics and skill of the workforce. Turkey won't design the new super bomber because they never had any aerospace industry of note, and their existing industries are nowhere near the technology level.

Japan or Sweden, on the other hand, could probably do it.

EDIT: And wow, a miraculously dry manilla folder found amongst flotsam of a pirate vessel just happens to contain details of an Evil Miratian Plot?

Yeah, there's no way Coilerburg planted it

PeZook wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote: dude I know you are being a bit sarcastic but I'm gonna respond serious anyway. nations in the real world don't rise to superpower status overnight. Look at china, they've been working towards being able to match either the Russian or American defense industries for close to 30 years and they still aren't really there...and that's with a huge industrial base to support them. What are the chances that say Turkey would develop the next generation super stealth bomber?

I wouldn't be so sure. The technology is expensive, yes, but it's not like rocketry or shipbuilding where you need huge, extensive facilities, lots of prototypes for everything and hundreds of thousands of support workers: Miratia does have an advanced aerospace industry, and if you have that, then building stealth aircraft is mostly a matter of mathematics and skill of the workforce. Turkey won't design the new super bomber because they never had any aerospace industry of note, and their existing industries are nowhere near the technology level.

Japan or Sweden, on the other hand, could probably do it.

Miratia was wrecked by civil war right? Shouldn't he focus on rebuilding his infrastructure and so forth?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Miratia was wrecked by civil war right? Shouldn't he focus on rebuilding his infrastructure and so forth?

He handwaved the "wrecking" part away and is producing F-22s Mk. II already

As a note to all, the tender will be done as you so please, including attempted bribery if you so choose. Nice pictures will aid your bid as well. Note that if you so choose to go the bribery route, there will be a point where it will be discovered and then...

Up to you to write the story.

By the way PeZook, did you pick which strategic recon plane you wanted? Or did I miss that?

SiegeTank wrote:By the way PeZook, did you pick which strategic recon plane you wanted? Or did I miss that?

Not yet. I had a lot to do this weekend, and didn't really think about it much.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Miratia was wrecked by civil war right? Shouldn't he focus on rebuilding his infrastructure and so forth?

Only in the North. I wouldn't call what Gero did to them "wrecked" anyways. The facilities that matter are in the largely in the South. The North has always been less developed and less dense than the South, due to dense jungle and stuff.

By the way, Coiler, I just threw a small town at this air-mobile artillery project, and have some prototypes ready. Looks like the unit price will be something like $20 million or so.

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Miratia was wrecked by civil war right? Shouldn't he focus on rebuilding his infrastructure and so forth?

Only in the North. I wouldn't call what Gero did to them "wrecked" anyways. The facilities that matter are in the largely in the South. The North has always been less developed and less dense than the South, due to dense jungle and stuff.

Well you know, if you want social stability and low crime rate, you might want to think about bringing some urban development there, especially if there's a fair bit of people living there.

The AM-1 Archer is an air-mobile artillery synchro-copter. What would be the tail on a regular helicopter is replaced by a 120mm howitzer. Unfortunately the defensive cannon was deemed impossible to mount, as was the exceptionally large motor that would have been required to give it speed to keep up with other combat helicopters, but it isn't terribly slow. The top speed is something like 180 km/h, after all, with a cruise speed of 150 km/h, with a 400 km combat radius. The entire chassis can rotate on the landing skid, allowing the turret to traverse laterally as well as vertically. Set up time is under thirty seconds with a practiced crew.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Miratia was wrecked by civil war right? Shouldn't he focus on rebuilding his infrastructure and so forth?

Only in the North. I wouldn't call what Gero did to them "wrecked" anyways. The facilities that matter are in the largely in the South. The North has always been less developed and less dense than the South, due to dense jungle and stuff.

Well you know, if you want social stability and low crime rate, you might want to think about bringing some urban development there, especially if there's a fair bit of people living there.

Yeah, that's what most of the make-work projects I have going in that area now are doing. I'm also sending Southern construction workers and equipment up there to assist in rebuilding the areas that were damaged by the fighting.

Of course, aerospace scientists and aerospace factories aren't much help in this endeavour, so they're still working on, well, aerospace.

The Miratians (well, the Southern ones, anyways) were smart enough to realize that they would regret annihilating the North, so they went to great lengths to ensure that important infrastructure (like hospitals, homes, and businesses that could employ citizens afterward) would suffer the least damage.

Ryan Thunder wrote:The AM-1 Archer is an air-mobile artillery synchro-copter. What would be the tail on a regular helicopter is replaced by a 120mm howitzer. Unfortunately the defensive cannon was deemed impossible to mount, as was the exceptionally large motor that would have been required to give it speed to keep up with other combat helicopters, but it isn't terribly slow. The top speed is something like 180 km/h, after all, with a cruise speed of 150 km/h, with a 400 km combat radius. The entire chassis can rotate on the landing skid, allowing the turret to traverse laterally as well as vertically. Set up time is under thirty seconds with a practiced crew.

What kind of an ammunition load can this thing carry? What's the firing range? Crew size?

Also, I'd like the ability to test a 12-gun battery to evaluate its usefulness.

Ryan Thunder wrote:The Miratians (well, the Southern ones, anyways) were smart enough to realize that they would regret annihilating the North, so they went to great lengths to ensure that important infrastructure (like hospitals, homes, and businesses that could employ citizens afterward) would suffer the least damage.

Well, the thing about war is that it doesn't do very well at avoiding damage

PeZook wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:The AM-1 Archer is an air-mobile artillery synchro-copter. What would be the tail on a regular helicopter is replaced by a 120mm howitzer. Unfortunately the defensive cannon was deemed impossible to mount, as was the exceptionally large motor that would have been required to give it speed to keep up with other combat helicopters, but it isn't terribly slow. The top speed is something like 180 km/h, after all, with a cruise speed of 150 km/h, and a 400 km combat radius. The entire chassis can rotate on the landing skid, allowing the turret to traverse laterally as well as vertically. Set up time is under thirty seconds with a practiced crew.

What kind of an ammunition load can this thing carry? What's the firing range? Crew size?

30 rounds, depends on the round (Miratian rocket-assisted rounds go up to 45 km), and two pilot/gunners, respectively.

Also, I'd like the ability to test a 12-gun battery to evaluate its usefulness.

That could be arranged, but it will take a while to build them.

Ryan, could you use a standardised artillery round like 105 or 155 instead.....

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Ryan, could you use a standardised artillery round like 105 or 155 instead.....

...or switch it to a mortar where 120mm isn't all that unusual.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Ryan, could you use a standardised artillery round like 105 or 155 instead.....

Yeah, sure. I didn't realize there were 105mm howitzers, actually...

So its 105mm, then. I haven't written it up yet in the nation building thread, but I'll get to that now.

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Ryan, could you use a standardised artillery round like 105 or 155 instead.....

Yeah, sure. I didn't realize there were 105mm howitzers, actually...

So its 105mm, then. I haven't written it up yet in the nation building thread, but I'll get to that now.

The Russians use 122mm and 152mm (and 203mm and a larger mortar as well, but these days they are leaning towards 122/152mm). 105mm was issued to US and British units that require high mobility and often to airbourne units, mountain infantry etc. They are shifting over to the M-777 155mm now.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Ryan, could you use a standardised artillery round like 105 or 155 instead.....

Yeah, sure. I didn't realize there were 105mm howitzers, actually...

So its 105mm, then. I haven't written it up yet in the nation building thread, but I'll get to that now.

The Russians use 122mm and 152mm (and 203mm and a larger mortar as well, but these days they are leaning towards 122/152mm). 105mm was issued to US and British units that require high mobility and often to airbourne units, mountain infantry etc. They are shifting over to the M-777 155mm now.

Well, as you folks said, there are compromises. I needed a mobile howitzer, and I needed it to be light enough for a helicopter to haul around with decent speed.

Future iterations may have larger guns.

Ryan Thunder wrote:Well, as you folks said, there are compromises. I needed a mobile howitzer, and I needed it to be light enough for a helicopter to haul around with decent speed.

Future iterations may have larger guns.

You probably ought to start with a 105mm and use a helicopter that is of the size of the larger Russian copters or a Chinook.

Though at the minimum, you must scale it to 155mm in the future.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Ryan Thunder wrote:Well, as you folks said, there are compromises. I needed a mobile howitzer, and I needed it to be light enough for a helicopter to haul around with decent speed.

Future iterations may have larger guns.

You probably ought to start with a 105mm and use a helicopter that is of the size of the larger Russian copters or a Chinook.

That'd be monstrous. Could you feasibly get the performance I stated out of something like that, or is it too fast/far?

Though at the minimum, you must scale it to 155mm in the future.

Yeah, that'll be the Mark II upgrade.

Ryan Thunder wrote:That'd be monstrous. Could you feasibly get the performance I stated out of something like that, or is it too fast/far?

I think the issue is when you fire the gun, you don't obliterate the copter while you are at it. I am going to assume that you will fire a 105mm autocannon of the same type as the one on the AC-130 which means the likely spot to mount the gun will be to the rear of the helicopter (I have no idea if there's space to mount the gun sideways), and then you would also have to train your pilots to fly backwards when you fire that gun or you make sure you fit in a recoil system that doesn't send the helicopter careening towards the ground.

First of all, you will need a Chinook-styled helicopter to feasibly mount a howitzer, an autoloader and proper chassis on it. A UH-60 can carry a 155mm howitzer in a sling, but its nowhere near tought enough to actually fire it, during transport or otherwise.

And Fingolfin, the thing isn't supposed to fire while in the air

It's an attempt to enhance mobility of artillery beyond sling-carried guns.