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The Romulan Republic wrote:The obvious conclusion, to me, is that he's trying to smoke out the Rebellion's political/financial backers, aka Mon Mothma and Bail Organa.

Of course, he presumably doesn't know its Mon Mothma and Bail Organa, but Thrawn is most likely well-informed and savvy enough to realize that the Rebellion couldn't be operating on this scale if they weren't being organized and funded covertly by someone with a lot of wealth and power.

That would be the ultimate target, and the ones he'd really have to take out to eliminate the Rebellion- otherwise they can keep funding more cells, and Thrawn will be stuck playing whack-a-mole.

To be honest the Imperial high command might even know (or at least strongly suspect) who leaders of the rebel alliance are but cannot prove it yet. It's bit of a cliche that dictators can arrest anyone they please on a whim, that's not really 100% accurate. Bail Organa is way too influencial within the imperial heirarchy to be someone you could just arrest without solid proof, however if Thrawn was able to evidence that linked Bail Organa to the rebellion (or capture him red handed so to speak) that would allow arresting him without upsetting the imperial heirarchy too much for Palpatine's plans to work.

eMeM wrote:Why?
Nothing bigger has appeared yet, in the first episode he ignored a fleet consisting of a carrier (with Sato on board), two CR-90s, the Ghost, and a bunch of Y-wings and A-wings. That's most of the combat capabilities of the Phoenix Fleet, and its leadership. In the next encounters he let go the same ships with the same people on board (2x Ghost, 1x CR-90, 1x Sato), except for the worthless YT-2400 and its equally dangerous crew.

"Thrawn has a much larger objective in mind than a capture of a single rebel cell" according to Pryce

Phoenix Fleet was never Thrawn's target.

Because he blatantly let them go, three times by now, with hardly a scratch.
Couldn't he at least try to blow up just one of their ships once in a while?

The corvettes in the first episode were the only ships he could have blown up if he waned to keep Sato and the Ghost, his links to the larger rebellion, alive.

The Ghost over Ryloth he couldn't even stop if he tried, judging by the last episode, and in the Iron Squadron he had very little time before they jumped and he deployed some TIEs so it didn't look that obvious that he let them go, even ignoring that the Imperial 0-class Star Observation Platform we see Rebels is unarmed

eMeM wrote:The corvettes in the first episode were the only ships he could have blown up if he waned to keep Sato and the Ghost, his links to the larger rebellion, alive.

Yes - but he didn't.

The Ghost over Ryloth he couldn't even stop if he tried, judging by the last episode,...

Well, he sure couldn't if he didn't even shoot!

... and in the Iron Squadron he had very little time before they jumped and he deployed some TIEs so it didn't look that obvious that he let them go, even ignoring that the Imperial 0-class Star Observation Platform we see Rebels is unarmed

If he had simply not interfered, Konstantine would have brought enough force to not need Thrawn there...

Adam Reynolds wrote:It is more that it is problematic in terms of drama to always have the bad guy let the heroes win so obviously. It works far better if they make tremendous sacrifices, fighting for even the smallest victory, when it turns out that they were outsmarted from the beginning.

Thrawn may not be letting them win so much as he's giving them a fighting chance by only sending his bumbling underlings against them. If they're crushed, then mission accomplished. If not, then they may actually be adversaries worthy of his personal attention.

Lord Revan wrote:Bail Organa is way too influencial within the imperial heirarchy to be someone you could just arrest without solid proof, however if Thrawn was able to evidence that linked Bail Organa to the rebellion (or capture him red handed so to speak) that would allow arresting him without upsetting the imperial heirarchy too much for Palpatine's plans to work.

Hell, Vader himself knew it was dangerous to simply detain Princess Leia even after catching her being openly rebellious. Until the Death Star was ready, everyone up to and including Vader and Tarkin knew that the Senate was not to be fucked with.

Thrawn would have known this as well.

Galvatron wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:Bail Organa is way too influencial within the imperial heirarchy to be someone you could just arrest without solid proof, however if Thrawn was able to evidence that linked Bail Organa to the rebellion (or capture him red handed so to speak) that would allow arresting him without upsetting the imperial heirarchy too much for Palpatine's plans to work.

Hell, Vader himself knew it was dangerous to simply detain Princess Leia even after catching her being openly rebellious. Until the Death Star was ready, everyone up to and including Vader and Tarkin knew that the Senate was not to be fucked with.

Thrawn would have known this as well.

Well it was actually the officer with Vader. "Holding her is dangerous. What if word gets out, it could generate sympathy for the rebellion in the senate". Sounds more like a 'the more you tighten you grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers' situation than 'the senate will slap you down somehow'.

Crazedwraith wrote:Well it was actually the officer with Vader.

To which Vader responded with devising a cover-up story to prevent the Senate from finding out about him capturing Leia, so he apparently took the matter seriously as well.

He didn't seem overly worried about it;

"She'll die before telling you anything!"
"Leave THAT to me. Send a distress signal. Then inform the senate that all aboard were killed" She's already dead
You can feel the ice dripping there. Vader is not someone overcome with anxiety. At this point, crushing Leia like a bug, isn't an issue.

For Vader, not simply dismissing the Senate as being too insignificant to placate with a cover story was pretty telling. After all, this is the same guy who wasn't even impressed by the Death Star.

Besides Vader doesn't need to be panicking over the prospect of the senate finding out about him boarding the Tantive IV for it be big deal. Indeed as Galvatron pointed out the fact that Vader bothers to make a cover story rather then just dismissing the conserns of the officer is quite telling.

Just to underscore the political situation in the years before ANH, it would be interesting to me if Rebels portrayed some military officers showing deference to members of the Imperial Senate on occasion. It would definitely serve as a stark contrast to how Leia was treated when she was captured.

I don't think it's ever been said that the senate has given away it's legal right to pass enabling acts? If so until it was 'dissolved' it would be a serious threat to the Imperial Government - it could make someone else, say Mon Mothma, Emperor, or restore the Republic.

IIRC at least in the legendaries the Imperial Senate was never officially disbanded, just dissolved due to a "state of emergency".

Also the senate didn't exist in a vacuum, the senators at least officially repesent sectors of imperial space and the needs of those sectors, we know thanks to the clone wars CGI series that Bail Organa is very well connected within the Republic senate (well films implied that but never said it outright) and reasonbly well liked and nothing I've seen suggests that has changed for the Imperial Senate. So arresting him without good proof might make other coreworlds (especially if they had expressed douts about the way the Empire was governed) to think they might be next and cause them to become openly rebellious (IIRC Alderaan was never openly rebellious, just supporting the rebellion from the shadows).

I think the Roman Imperial might be a good analogue IIRC, the emperors could rule fairly independently as long as they kept the senators reasonbly happy, so senate would be too busy with its petty political infighting to really bother the throne, but if the senate (or at least a signifigant portion of the senators) became united with supporting a certain matter it would be wise for emperor to at least pretend to address that matter. (if I'm wrong on this matter I'm sure Thanas or someone else who knowns this better will correct me).

NecronLord wrote:I don't think it's ever been said that the senate has given away it's legal right to pass enabling acts? If so until it was 'dissolved' it would be a serious threat to the Imperial Government - it could make someone else, say Mon Mothma, Emperor, or restore the Republic.

Entirely possible. At the very least, even a high ranking general thought it would be impossible for the Empire to function without the Senate's bureaucracy.

I just think it would be interesting to see stormtroopers and grey-uniforms kissing ass and protecting Senators like they would any other Imperial VIP.

Lord Revan wrote:So arresting him without good proof might make other coreworlds (especially if they had expressed douts about the way the Empire was governed) to think they might be next and cause them to become openly rebellious.

The various sectors of the Empire may have rebelled in various ways after the Battle of Yavin. In light of the new EU's emphasis on Imperial supply lines, a key system merely denying their resources to the Imperial military could be a passive but effective way of defying the Emperor, even if they never fired a single shot.

Galvatron wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:So arresting him without good proof might make other coreworlds (especially if they had expressed douts about the way the Empire was governed) to think they might be next and cause them to become openly rebellious.

The various sectors of the Empire may have rebelled in various ways after the Battle of Yavin. In light of the new EU's emphasis on Imperial supply lines, a key system merely denying their resources to the Imperial military could be a passive but effective way of defying the Emperor, even if they never fired a single shot.

I would consider openly denying resources from the imperial military as being openly rebellious, after all there's a world of difference for system to have the occational munitions shipment to be "lost" or "stolen"(read:given to the rebels) or them supplying information for the rebels to be able to ambush an imperial convoy and a system outright refusing to give resources to the imperial military (even if they aren't giving those to rebels). Also I suspect same would apply to any other form of supplies as well.

You can be openly rebellious without bringing any troops and equipment to the frontline so to speak.

Galvatron wrote:Just to underscore the political situation in the years before ANH, it would be interesting to me if Rebels portrayed some military officers showing deference to members of the Imperial Senate on occasion. It would definitely serve as a stark contrast to how Leia was treated when she was captured.

Galvatron wrote:I just think it would be interesting to see stormtroopers and grey-uniforms kissing ass and protecting Senators like they would any other Imperial VIP.

Have you seen "A Princess on Lothal" yet? Because that's essentially how they got away with everything they did. I'm not sure if Leia was officially a Senator or not, but they were definitely cowed by her official title and prestige - even if they were deeply suspicious of Alderaan in general.

Dark Troopers were nice to see, in which they were clearly a threat in a way that stormtroopers were not. One notable thing is that they were not only tougher, but they were also smarter. No stormtrooper from the series would have been clever enough to shoot the cable mount.

I also liked the random moment in which Ezra cut a hole in the door which left it wide open when they later tried to seal it.

Though in criticism of the series, this is also the thing that both Clone Wars and Rebels have done that often bothers me. They take elements from the old continuity without regard for the context in which they add that concept to their own stories. It is largely also the problem with Thrawn, in which he is less effective because the Empire cannot win much given the small size of the Rebel Alliance at this point.

Dark Troopers were supposed to be an elite fighting unit in which a handful of them took down an entire Rebel base, while in Rebels they were guarding a lost cargo ship in the middle of nowhere and were unable to kill an overweight alien who wasn't exactly a combat veteran. It would be like a modern action movie in which US Navy Seals are guarding a transport ship with nothing of consequence on it.

They were security droids, not Dark Troopers. Perhaps they look similar, but they were stated to be nothing of the sort.

Lord Revan wrote:I would consider openly denying resources from the imperial military as being openly rebellious

So would I, but it's a form of rebellion that could be performed without casting their lot in with the rest of the Alliance and taking up arms against the Empire.

Rogue 9 wrote:They were security droids, not Dark Troopers. Perhaps they look similar, but they were stated to be nothing of the sort.

Even if they were just generic security droids, it still begs the question why these aren't used for something important given their greater combat effectiveness and survivability than stormtroopers. I can sort of understand why given that they battle droids and being used after the clone wars, but it is still odd that something this effective and presumably expensive is on a cargo transport.

In any case, it is clearly modeled upon darktroopers regardless, which is my point. They took the model for darktroopers and had them guarding cargo ships in the middle of nowhere with nothing of importance on them.

Nothing of importance to the Empire at large maybe. The treasure Hondo and his blobby friend were after was apparently rather valuable so maybe the droids were on the ship because they were guarding some important imperial flunky's personal possessions.
And I rather liked the freighters design. It looks really freigher-y.

Galvatron wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:I would consider openly denying resources from the imperial military as being openly rebellious

So would I, but it's a form of rebellion that could be performed without casting their lot in with the rest of the Alliance and taking up arms against the Empire.

but then taking up arms against the empire and joining the rebel alliance aren't the same thing. I suspect that at least in early days you had groups that supported the alliance from the shadows so to speak and you had groups that took up arms against the empire but weren't part of the alliance that grew from the delegation of the 2000, but rather local groups only conserned about a single system or a small group systems and not an empire wide rebellion.

Lord Revan wrote:but then taking up arms against the empire and joining the rebel alliance aren't the same thing.

Granted.

I didn't mean to suggest that fighting the Empire automatically meant joining the Alliance. However, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a huge groundswell of support for the Alliance in various forms after the Battle of Yavin.

Galvatron wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:but then taking up arms against the empire and joining the rebel alliance aren't the same thing.

Granted.

I didn't mean to suggest that fighting the Empire automatically meant joining the Alliance. However, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a huge groundswell of support for the Alliance in various forms after the Battle of Yavin.

true enough.

I also suspect that many of those various local rebel factions ended joining the Rebel Alliance after battle of Yavin either due to safety or simply thinking they could achive their goals better with the support of the alliance.