[STGOD] Primary OOC Discussion Thread

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-21 10:55pm

Thirdfain wrote:Even hundreds of thousands of mines, with kill radii in the thousands of kilometers, would not have enough coverage to guard a system, and with vessels launching attacks against planets from across the system, ships don't even need to enter the minefields to cause total devastation.

My vessels came in over the ecliptic, out side the system, and bombarded in.

Actually, the have kill ranges in the millions of Km. And I dumped them over the approach paths. Those aren't the same thing as the whole system in the Honorverse.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-21 11:34pm

I haven't decided what to do with the PIR for now. I do intend to have Beowulf run them when he gets back.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-21 11:52pm

Actually, the have kill ranges in the millions of Km. And I dumped them over the approach paths. Those aren't the same thing as the whole system in the Honorverse.

WTF do you mean by approach paths? my vessels are buzzing your systems over the ecliptic- and these are fairly large fleets, with about 40 shielded Floater strike cruisers, twenty- odd NRE escort vessels, and twenty larger NRE warships a fleet- thats a shit lot of firepower- not to mention the fact that my fleets are shielded by large fighter screens, more then capable of hunting down and destroying mines.

Not to mention the fact that manufacturing millions of mines that large would require a HUGE operation, and deprive your other industries of resources...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-22 12:01am

Thirdfain wrote:WTF do you mean by approach paths? my vessels are buzzing your systems over the ecliptic- and these are fairly large fleets, with about 40 shielded Floater strike cruisers, twenty- odd NRE escort vessels, and twenty larger NRE warships a fleet- thats a shit lot of firepower- not to mention the fact that my fleets are shielded by large fighter screens, more then capable of hunting down and destroying mines.

I mean in the Honorverse (whose FTL tech you borrowed -improperly I might add) in the approaches are defined some what by the grav shadows of planets within the system. Not to mention coming in the eliptic is harder on your drives.

You would get hit by few mines. And your Strike Cruisers are a crappy ship to rely on for assualts. Too little armor and no sheilds at all, they'd be murdered by a hit or two.

Thirdfain wrote:Not to mention the fact that manufacturing millions of mines that large would require a HUGE operation, and deprive your other industries of resources...

Not that huge. The mines are basically a really large missle warhead with a few thruster. Given major fleet egagements spend missles by the tens of thousands per salvo it can't possibly be that tough.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-22 12:09am

You would get hit by few mines. And your Strike Cruisers are a crappy ship to rely on for assualts. Too little armor and no sheilds at all, they'd be murdered by a hit or two.

"Shadowrun" class Strike Cruisers sacrifice some of their forewards armament and their FTL torp tubes for shielding devices- all my newest models are shielded, incluing my Republic-class Dreadnoughts and my new-model carriers. Additionall,y they don;t need to come under fire in this situation- Planets and spaceyards don't dodge. I can fire from across the system and hyper out far out of the range of any defenses, as you yourself demonstrated over Durandalia.

Not to mention coming in the eliptic is harder on your drives.

you are trying to wipe out my civilization- we can build new drives later.

Not that huge. The mines are basically a really large missle warhead with a few thruster. Given major fleet egagements spend missles by the tens of thousands per salvo it can't possibly be that tough.

Missile warheads don't have million-kilometer reaches, and I'm pretty sure Honorvese mines don't have them either.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-22 12:22am

"Shadowrun" class Strike Cruisers sacrifice some of their forewards armament and their FTL torp tubes for shielding devices- all my newest models are shielded, incluing my Republic-class Dreadnoughts and my new-model carriers. Additionall,y they don;t need to come under fire in this situation- Planets and spaceyards don't dodge. I can fire from across the system and hyper out far out of the range of any defenses, as you yourself demonstrated over Durandalia.

Overlooked those. But they are still far too light for the purposes of assualts. Your stike cruisers are essentially capship weapons on a escort frame. That'd cut any sort of defense to the bone as has been pointed out to you time and again.

Yes, you can. But you clearly didn't do that. You jumped in at the edge of it. And plus you'd need to use ballistic weapons which would be picked off easily doing that.

Missile warheads don't have million-kilometer reaches, and I'm pretty sure Honorvese mines don't have them either.

The mines are equivalent in power to capship energy batteries. And those do indeed have a million KM range against targets with out a wedge.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-22 12:26am

Yes, you can. But you clearly didn't do that. You jumped in at the edge of it. And plus you'd need to use ballistic weapons which would be picked off easily doing that.

Read my post again- I came in over the ecliptic, using inert ballistic projctiles. (Shoot a chunk of rock, and it just becomes a few hundred smaller chunks of rock. And there are a LOT of these rocks coming at you...)

Additionally, the Shadowrun models sacrifice much of their armament for the shielding, as I said- and each force is supported by an entire Roman Astrolegios, with forty vessels ranging from battleships to escorts.

That's a lot of firepower to aim against civilian shipyards and unshielded planetary targets.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-22 12:29am

Thirdfain wrote:Read my post again- I came in over the ecliptic, using inert ballistic projctiles. (Shoot a chunk of rock, and it just becomes a few hundred smaller chunks of rock. And there are a LOT of these rocks coming at you...)

Additionally, the Shadowrun models sacrifice much of their armament for the shielding, as I said- and each force is supported by an entire Roman Astrolegios, with forty vessels ranging from battleships to escorts.

That's a lot of firepower to aim against civilian shipyards and unshielded planetary targets.

I never denied them being hit you dumbass. I just am disputing that you can waltz magically through a mine field.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-22 12:38am

I am simply disputing that you can conjour up the tens of millions of mines needed to cover a system out to a meaningful range.

Note the usage of mines in HH- they cover worlds and chokepoints, not systems, and act as defenses against fleets which are intent on closing with a world.

Since the raiding fleets need not close with the worlds (as they will not be landing any troops), and are aiming only to cause destruction, the mines should be of minimal worry.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-22 12:42am

Thirdfain wrote:I am simply disputing that you can conjour up the tens of millions of mines needed to cover a system out to a meaningful range.

Note the usage of mines in HH- they cover worlds and chokepoints, not systems, and act as defenses against fleets which are intent on closing with a world.

Since the raiding fleets need not close with the worlds (as they will not be landing any troops), and are aiming only to cause destruction, the mines should be of minimal worry.

You think I can't produce that many expendable munitions with the industry of 16 planets/moons at my disposale? That's ridicilous. It's no more difficult that the US mining campaigns against Japan in terms of relative scale.

And you once again assume I'd never build weapons with out war imminent. My nation ain't the UFR, they damn well would.

And so what? They can be used in sufficient number as I have. They are also used where the hyper routes are fairly well defined. It can be done with the tech. They just don't.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-06-22 02:29am

Well my mine fields are kept mostly in the area around a wormhole. Note my Bifrost Drives work differently then your Honorverse type drives. The Fenari typr drives open a hole to "the Bifrost Demnsion" where travel faster then light is possible, however the rainbow swirls can be distracting and it requires a mind that knows where you are and where your going. However planatary mas shadows do have a strong effect on Bifrost drives too, however "elliptic is also easier to perform that way.

Of course Fenari drives require much more fuel then the normal drives.