StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Huh? 3 billion? What?

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Huh? 3 billion? What?

That submarine is worth 3 billion dollars.

That Coilerburg submarine that's prowling out in waters belonging to god knows who's country?

Man, who's bright idea was it to give Coiler nukes anyway? We all saw what he did in Game 1.

... wait, what? Coilerburg petitions to become a part of San Dorado?



Hokay... That's, uh, unexpected. I'd have to appoint a regional manager, overhaul the entire bureaucracy (San Dorado isn't run like ordinary democracies, after all), purge the military. It'd double the GDP, quadruple the territorial holdings, and I have no idea what it'd mean populace-wise or GDP-per-capita-wise... It'd be crazy complicated to pull off, it'd take years, and still I find it oddly appealing (in a rather megalomaniac sense). And it's certainly a change from the same-old same-old...

Hell, why not run with this...

I was not expecting that, I've got to say.

What about ordinary Coilerburgians? What do they think about becoming part of a libertopian non-paradise corporate state?

What about their renowned faction of ultramilitant hardliner nutjobs? That's the important thing.

PeZook wrote:What about ordinary Coilerburgians? What do they think about becoming part of a libertopian non-paradise corporate state?

It beats living in what is essentially a junta-run nation pretending to be a democracy once every five years . But yeah, it'd be problematic. There would be lots of people uncomfortable with the idea. Not to mention the military hardliners Shroom mentioned. It'd be a frickin' challenge, and that'd be putting it mildly.

Still, I like a good challenge .

SiegeTank wrote:It beats living in what is essentially a junta pretending to be a democracy every four years ;). But yeah, it'd be problematic. There would be lots of people uncomfortable with the idea. Not to mention the military hardliners Shroom mentioned. It'd be a frickin' challenge, and that'd be putting it mildly.

Still, I like a good challenge :).

What assistance would you need from the FTO to make it work?

I think it'd be cooler if it doesn't end up in a unilateral San Dorado takeover of Coilerburg, but more like Coilerburg utterly imploding and the FTO as a whole coming in to save the nation - to bring hope to the hopeless, to save the downtrodden Coilers from their ruined nation - and all that.

Saving that fucked up country would totally salvage the FTO's reputation, which'd be tainted by the fact that they allowed that fucked up country to join the FTO in the first place.

Karmic Knight wrote:What assistance would you need from the FTO to make it work?

Good question. First thought: lots of police to keep the place quiet. My army is only four brigades strong, we don't have the manpower to keep the peace if the natives get restless.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:*snip civil war idea*

Frankly Coilerburg imploding doesn't make much sense at all. One thing that Coiler said makes a lot of sense, and that is that the average Coilerburgian would probably be dead tired of all the wars and strife and conflict and bullshit that their government has pulled. They've gone through so much shit in the past six years... There'd probably be military hardliners trying shit and all that jazz, but I don't see much cause or reason for Coilerburg to descend into a full-fledged civil war.

Besides, I don't think the reputation of the FTO needs salvaging at all. It's not like we cocked up collectively.

Perhaps the FTO could dismantle Coilerburg as a country, to be replaced with spheres of influence or a competent, non-Coilerburgian government?

That strikes me as a recipe for disaster. There's no reason to dismantle Coilerburg. What the place needs is competent leadership, not partitioning ala post-WWII Germany. It's not the CFR, after all. It has a government, and even if it doesn't function as perhaps it should I doubt they'll go along with breaking the place up like that.

I think it'd be better if Favre gets overthrown in yet another military junta because of the immense damage to Coilerburgian pride and prestige caused by the sub incident, in turn sparking a popular uprising that the junta simply doesn't have the will or energy to put down, and the end result is a national Constitutional Convention that creates a new constitution that, for better or worse, specifically bans military officers from ever being Presidents or members of the Executive Branch of the government. Because it seems to me most of their leaders have been military men, so many people would associate Coilerburg's repeated failures with the Coilerburgian military (with good reason).

Perhaps only a slight partition in that long-standing pro-Sabikan towns linked to Saffronburg (little creations when I did the San Magdalena Accord extrapolating from others like Raj having Sabika as being particularly onerous to the peace treaty) are permitted to join that state by the Convention, coincidentally harming the Sons of Sabika revanchist movement by removing a lever issue they could use. The rest of Coilerburg, being a generally sovereign nation for some time with a series of bad governments that can be seen as the result of the factionalism and petty politicking of primarily military politicians, gets a new constitution that castrates the influence of the military and turns it into little more than a gendarme for civil services and maintaining order (a Corps of Engineers perhaps for civilian projects and some gendarmes and security personnel for protecting key figures and maintaining public order when Local Law Enforcement fails), most of the Coilerburgian military's weapon systems (jet aircraft, tanks, etc.) being turned over to FTO control. This would actually help peace in that region a lot as all three large Northeastern Frequesuan nations would thus be disarmed and unable to attack each other, with the threat of FTO action to keep Minoy from getting frisky.

SiegeTank wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote:*snip civil war idea*

Frankly Coilerburg imploding doesn't make much sense at all. One thing that Coiler said makes a lot of sense, and that is that the average Coilerburgian would probably be dead tired of all the wars and strife and conflict and bullshit that their government has pulled. They've gone through so much shit in the past six years... There'd probably be military hardliners trying shit and all that jazz, but I don't see much cause or reason for Coilerburg to descend into a full-fledged civil war.

Besides, I don't think the reputation of the FTO needs salvaging at all. It's not like we cocked up collectively.

The thing is if you have yet another military overthrow (in the wake of essentially an abdication by the civilian government) you would be looking at a whole mess of things which could lead to civil war not the elast of which would be a total freefall in currency, international investment dwindling to virtually nihl, and in turn you could expect some consequences in the surrounding FTO nations when trade reprecussions and the increasing instability of the region make it apparent to investors, shippers, and insurers that the FTO isn't the safe bet for growth that it once was. With Valeria possibly getting quieter and Arabiopolis drawing a huge share of international investment San Dorado alone would probably have to shift its priorities to self funding rather than overseas as nobody else is available to pick up the slack.

Anyway in that kind of a situation Coilerburg could easily slide into a sort of competing warlords situation or at least a really bad variant of Zimbabwe that would make any nation trying to come in think twice about the billions they would have the spend just to make the country worthwhile.

Then I guess we'll just have to make sure that the military won't try anything funny. The process of incorporation would be gradual anyway, probably taking years to complete fully, so it's not like from one day to the next there's no longer a government in place. Meanwhile police and military forces will move in to keep the peace, and we'll see what happens from there.

Besides, incorporating an entire state into San Dorado is sufficiently interesting a concept that it would be almost criminal from a story-telling perspective not to pull through with it...

Would anybody object to Miratia drawing some significant immigration from Coilerburg in such a situation? My population density, as it stands, is freakishly low.

Out of curiousity, is Stas still in the game?

Zor

Zor wrote:Out of curiousity, is Stas still in the game?

Zor

Somewhat. He gave Shady the right to administer the nation, with the rest of the SNC.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:

Zor wrote:Out of curiousity, is Stas still in the game?

Zor

Somewhat. He gave Shady the right to administer the nation, with the rest of the SNC.

Pitty, he was a lifeblood member in the first incarnation.

Zor

I object to the idea that Coilerburg's populace would accept a San Doradan takeover or to Coiler's preposterous idea that the people will willingly abandon a national identity when they can so much more easily blame the military for its chronic mishandling of the government, whether as a junta or by getting its officers elected.

Realistically the instance such a request passed the Coilerburger legislature there should be large street protests combined with elements of the military planning a coup to save their country's sovereignty.

Steve wrote:I object to the idea that Coilerburg's populace would accept a San Doradan takeover or to Coiler's preposterous idea that the people will willingly abandon a national identity when they can so much more easily blame the military for its chronic mishandling of the government, whether as a junta or by getting its officers elected.

Realistically the instance such a request passed the Coilerburger legislature there should be large street protests combined with elements of the military planning a coup to save their country's sovereignty.

I concur. As above there is virtually no likelyhood that this doesn't turn into either a giant San Doradan bloodbath as they try and impose order or the country self-destructs as the populace revolts against the military and seizes power leading to the army mowing down civilians in the streets.




On an unrelated note the Caymans are finally finished with their elections. With the IRT back in the game there was some discreet money (and muscle) applied to get the Liberals in charge of things (the money was for the liberals and the muscle was to get the Naitonalists to caucus with them). Since the tide was swinging so strongly towards the commie-lite National front both Wilkonia and the IRT decided to back the middle horse figuring that they could at least put a government in palce that would be able to block anything truly onerous while giving just enough rope for the naitonal front to hang itself when they can't accomplish everything that the poorest of the Caymans think they can...unless they do. So basically its 4 more years of a near status quo with a few more liberties for the average citizen, more money staying in the Caymans but otehrwise business as usual.

Well, Siege already declared that he's more than willing to accept the challenge of trying to integrate Coilerburg into San Dorado, and if there's going to be a bloodbath of some kind of another, then so be it.

Also:

Steve wrote:Realistically the instance such a request passed the Coilerburger legislature

Steve wrote:Realistically the instance such a request passed the Coilerburger legislature

Steve wrote:COILERBURGER

Steve wrote:COILERBURGER

A freshly-grilled Coilerburger with cheese on a sesame seed bun should hit the spot right about now. (I'm not advocating cannibalism of Coilerburg nationals, I just thought it'd be a nice little joke.)

You know, that's what I thought people from Coilerburg were called, actually, before people started using "Coilerburgian".

Master_Baerne wrote:You know, that's what I thought people from Coilerburg were called, actually, before people started using "Coilerburgian".

I use 'Coilers' personally.