Jem'Hadar special abilities

Shocker · Post by **Shocker** » 2004-03-01 09:16pm

Did the Federation ever counter the Jem'Hadar special abilities of shrouding, and passing through anti-personnal forcefields and stuff? And if they did, how did they do it?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-01 10:05pm

They always could detect the Jem'Hadar on their tricorders, but they never seemed to figure out that enhanced-vision goggles would be really helpful against them. I suspect that Geordi Laforge can probably see Jem'Hadar soldiers unaided.

There's also a gamma-quadrant flashlight of some sort which makes cloaked Tosks visible to the naked eye, and Tosk cloaking seems to be similar to Jem'Hadar cloaking.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-03-02 01:21am

Infrared googles should be able to see shrouded Jemhader. But for some reasons the Federation does not use them.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-03-02 04:01am

Question. Why is everyone assuming the JM cloaking thing doesn't extend into the Infared spectrum? Tricorders AFAIK (which I think can see into all wavelengths of the EM spectrum) only track Jem'hadar close by the slight visual distortions they give off when moving or when VERY close.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2004-03-02 04:26am

evilcat4000 wrote:Infrared googles should be able to see shrouded Jemhader. But for some reasons the Federation does not use them.

StarFleet has the collective intelligence of Dorkstar. Hell, he probably just edges them out in that race.

Chris: Because it's the American way, to assume. That and blow third world shitholes to hell.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-03-02 08:13am

Chris OFarrell wrote:Question. Why is everyone assuming the JM cloaking thing doesn't extend into the Infared spectrum? Tricorders AFAIK (which I think can see into all wavelengths of the EM spectrum) only track Jem'hadar close by the slight visual distortions they give off when moving or when VERY close.

Any object at a temperature above abosolute zero gives off infrared radiation. Since the Jemhaders body temperature is obviously above that infrared sensors should be able to detect them.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2004-03-02 10:42am

evilcat4000 wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:Question. Why is everyone assuming the JM cloaking thing doesn't extend into the Infared spectrum? Tricorders AFAIK (which I think can see into all wavelengths of the EM spectrum) only track Jem'hadar close by the slight visual distortions they give off when moving or when VERY close.
Any object at a temperature above abosolute zero gives off infrared radiation. Since the Jemhaders body temperature is obviously above that infrared sensors should be able to detect them.

Infrared radiation is still electromagnetic radiation, which the Jem'hadar can distort. The Jem'hadar need only mask enough of his infrared signature to blend in with the background's IR radiation.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-02 11:09am

Chris OFarrell wrote:Question. Why is everyone assuming the JM cloaking thing doesn't extend into the Infared spectrum? Tricorders AFAIK (which I think can see into all wavelengths of the EM spectrum) only track Jem'hadar close by the slight visual distortions they give off when moving or when VERY close.

And what makes you think they track them based on visual distortions? Nog seemed to be tracking them in all directions regardless of where his tricorder was pointed in "Rocks and Shoals", and visual tracking requires line of sight.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-02 11:10am

Matt Huang wrote:Infrared radiation is still electromagnetic radiation, which the Jem'hadar can distort. The Jem'hadar need only mask enough of his infrared signature to blend in with the background's IR radiation.

The laws of thermodynamics dictate that if he does so, he must still emit the same amount of energy in some other frequency band. A sufficiently broadband sensor system should pick it up. And then there's the gamma-quadrant Tosk-detector flashlight I mentioned earlier.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2004-03-02 12:47pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Matt Huang wrote:Infrared radiation is still electromagnetic radiation, which the Jem'hadar can distort. The Jem'hadar need only mask enough of his infrared signature to blend in with the background's IR radiation.
The laws of thermodynamics dictate that if he does so, he must still emit the same amount of energy in some other frequency band. A sufficiently broadband sensor system should pick it up. And then there's the gamma-quadrant Tosk-detector flashlight I mentioned earlier.

If his cloak masks through destructive interference, then he could be putting out a lot of energy, but most of it wouldn't be detected except by very sensitive instruments (such as the tricorder) or some form of technobabble.

As for the gamma-quad Tosk-light, it probably interferes with the cloak. I'm not sure about that though, and if you have a better explanation I'd love to hear it.

Shocker · Post by **Shocker** » 2004-03-07 02:30pm

Is the shroud biological or some technological device on the Jem'Hadar?

Major Diarrhia · Post by **Major Diarrhia** » 2004-03-07 02:50pm

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/l ... 70627.html

StarTrek.com wrote:Jem'Hadar
Episode: The Jem'Hadar

Planet: name unspecified.

The feared, leathery-skinned storm troopers genetically bred for that task by the Dominion Founders are not motivated by any of the causes of the Alpha Quadrant such as glory, nobility, politics, intrigue or even money — though they do possess a chillingly detached mercenary quality that cannot be bribed.

They are not hive-mind automatons like the Borg but are genetically bred to supreme strength and endurance, kept in line via an addiction to Ketracel-white — an enzymatic nutrient, dispensed with great ritual by each unit's Vorta, in vials which fit into the uniform and feed directly to the neck.

Military ranks are simply denoted as the First being unit leader, followed by the Second, Third, and so on; the First is answerable to the Vorta, who may reward and punish Jem'Hadar in the unit with on-the-spot promotions and demotions.

During the Dominion War a newer line dubbed "Alphans" have appeared, supplanting older Jem'Hadar types such as Gammas in being specifically bred for the Alpha Quadrant opponents while retaining the same physical appearance.

Jem'Hadar use the Dominion quick-shimmer transporter system, including an armband remote control and a personal cloaking device, or "shroud.". Their uniform also includes energy absorbing pads that can defeat a Starfleet Level 3 containment field, and a recessed collar-bone area to hold the Ketracel-white vial.

Only males are bred, gestated in birthing chambers and able to fight within three days of emergence; they mature rapidly, reaching the human equivalent of age 8 or 9 in two weeks. They do not sleep, require no food or drink except the Ketracel-white, enjoy vicious fighting, and exude superiority over all creatures except the Founders.

Shocker wrote:Is the shroud biological or some technological device on the Jem'Hadar?

It says it's a device, so it's probably not a built in ability. I'm not sure if it's made clear in any episode but I have seen several other sights that say the shroud is a natural ability.

{edit}
It seems that there is the possibility that it is biological.
http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url ... shoals.asp

The Jem’Hadar who fired first is demoted to Sixth and ordered to ‘shroud’ himself, but he can’t (it seems that the lack of White stops Jem’Hadar from shrouding/cloaking). Remata’Klan orders his troops to lay down suppression fire and withdraw.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-03-07 03:47pm

FYI, Tricorders never detected Jem'Hadar beyond a range of 50 meters in Rocks and Shoals. In CQB urban settings Tricorders would be highly effective, but if there is any range involved Jem'Hadar cloaking would only be detected once weapons are fired.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-03-07 04:12pm

Major Diarrhia wrote:It says it's a device, so it's probably not a built in ability. I'm not sure if it's made clear in any episode but I have seen several other sights that say the shroud is a natural ability.

unless those sites are official, i wouldn't be inclined to take them at their word. it would be easier to assume that they're the result of some technological device built into the jem'hadar's suit rather than an inborn ability.

Shocker · Post by **Shocker** » 2004-03-07 06:23pm

The baby Jem'Hadar who grew up on the station that Odo tried to raise seemed to be able to cloak by himself, so it might be biological though.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-03-07 06:40pm

Jem'Hadar cloaking is a built in trait dependent on their continued use of White. Because Jem'Hadar health is related to how frequently they use White, this makes sense as to why not using White after a while prevents the Jem'Hadar from cloaking.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-03-08 02:14am

Darth Wong wrote:They always could detect the Jem'Hadar on their tricorders, but they never seemed to figure out that enhanced-vision goggles would be really helpful against them. I suspect that Geordi Laforge can probably see Jem'Hadar soldiers unaided.

There's also a gamma-quadrant flashlight of some sort which makes cloaked Tosks visible to the naked eye, and Tosk cloaking seems to be similar to Jem'Hadar cloaking.

Makes sense, especially since the writing team always maintained that the Hunters were a Dominion member (Sort of like 'We'll give you Tosks to hunt and in exchange, you hunt them through unexplored territory and gather information on it for us'), though the oppertunity to shopw them working with the Dominion never presented itself (the closest we could have had was 'To the Death').

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-03-08 02:55pm

JME2 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:They always could detect the Jem'Hadar on their tricorders, but they never seemed to figure out that enhanced-vision goggles would be really helpful against them. I suspect that Geordi Laforge can probably see Jem'Hadar soldiers unaided.

There's also a gamma-quadrant flashlight of some sort which makes cloaked Tosks visible to the naked eye, and Tosk cloaking seems to be similar to Jem'Hadar cloaking.
Makes sense, especially since the writing team always maintained that the Hunters were a Dominion member (Sort of like 'We'll give you Tosks to hunt and in exchange, you hunt them through unexplored territory and gather information on it for us'), though the oppertunity to shopw them working with the Dominion never presented itself (the closest we could have had was 'To the Death').

And there is the fact that the Jem'Hadar rifles are a rebuild of the Hunter rifles. It would seem there is enough evidence to state the Hunters are indeed members of the Dominion.